United Ireland....... Persuade the unionists.....

martinedwards

Ok instead of the usual, yellow numberplate/petrol bomb as soon as you cross the border/Derry girls are easy thread......

Boards seems to be a strongly Pro united Ireland community

Ok, lets say that there is a border poll.

Having a minority with strong anti ruler views has historically not been the most peaceful system in the North.

so,

how would you persuade the folk that are terrified of all the things that they PERCEIVE to be against them in an all island Irish nation?

and lets be honest, "Suck it up, my auntie Brigit was spat on by a brit soldier in 1972" isn't going to persuade the likes of Sammy Wilson that it's a good idea.

Discuss!

Larbre34

I wouldn't try to persuade them. Their perception is totally and absolutely correct.

Fact is, they have been let down, even betrayed by their own representatives for decades now. Their time is over and thats all there is to it. We don't need them to agree to a United Ireland, 6 million to 0.8 million is a pretty easy bit of arithmetic understand. They can either remain where they are and live exactly as they always have, albeit electing to a Dublin parliament, or they can piss off to GB.

Either way, the momentum is unstoppable now, UI is leaving the station and building up steam.

Thelonious Monk

I think many of us in ROI need to be persuaded why we would want to unite with the North, not something that would ever interest me anyway

martinedwards

Larbre34 wrote: »

I wouldn't try to persuade them. Their perception is totally and absolutely correct.

Fact is, they have been let down, even betrayed by their own representatives for decades now. Their time is over and thats all there is to it. We don't need them to agree to a United Ireland, 6 million to 0.8 million is a pretty easy bit of arithmetic understand. They can either remain where they are and live exactly as they always have, albeit electing to a Dublin parliament, or they can piss off to GB.

Either way, the momentum is unstoppable now, UI is leaving the station and building up steam.

So a restarting of the troubles with the other lot in minority is OK with you. Cool.

I've lived through it once already. With a Ruling group with the military force of a world superpower on their side. Garda and Irish Army.......? I'd prefer not to face it again.

Speedline

It is up to them to negotiate what concessions they would like in a UI. Problem is, in their view even discussing it is akin to admitting it is a possibility. So far, they are sticking their heads in the sand.

Allinall

martinedwards wrote: »

Ok instead of the usual, yellow numberplate/petrol bomb as soon as you cross the border/Derry girls are easy thread......

Boards seems to be a strongly Pro united Ireland community

Ok, lets say that there is a border poll.

Having a minority with strong anti ruler views has historically not been the most peaceful system in the North.

so,

how would you persuade the folk that are terrified of all the things that they PERCEIVE to be against them in an all island Irish nation?

and lets be honest, "Suck it up, my auntie Brigit was spat on by a brit soldier in 1972" isn't going to persuade the likes of Sammy Wilson that it's a good idea.

Discuss!

You’ll need to persuade an awful lot of southerners first, including this one.

Larbre34

martinedwards wrote: »

So a restarting of the troubles with the other lot in minority is OK with you. Cool.

I've lived through it once already. With a Ruling group with the military force of a world superpower on their side. Garda and Irish Army.......? I'd prefer not to face it again.

Ruling group? We're talking about a power sharing executive with nationalist and alliance seats eclipsing the combined unionist members. SF is going to be the largest party in the assembly after the next election and hold the FM office.

And judging by Boris' recent antics, he wouldn't back northern unionists to save his life. London tories would be well rid of NI as soon as humanly possible.

Thelonious Monk

Aren't half of them employed by the UK government up there? I think there are tonnes of public service and civil service jobs that were put there to keep them quiet. What do we do with those people?
The north is in a better place now than it maybe ever has been, I'm not sure why any rational person would want to be part of our country.

Fake Scores

https://twitter.com/GerryAdamsSF/status/1373260624663359494

alchemist33

They can have their marches (in places where they're wanted) and maybe even British passports. But they all have to subscribe to the one true Tayto.

Larbre34

alchemist33 wrote: »

They can have their marches (in places where they're wanted) and maybe even British passports. But they all have to subscribe to the one true Tayto.

Ironically, the one in blue and red.

Junkyard Tom

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I think many of us in ROI need to be persuaded why we would want to unite with the North, not something that would ever interest me anyway

Create a vision for a new permanently-partitioned state with a new flag, new constitution, new anthem, and rejection of our history, then because if you won such a no vote you wouldn't be inheriting this state.

TheValeyard

Tell them the sea isn't that cold

85603

Wouldn't be arsed pandering to them.

I'd offer them re-partition, as what good are they to us? Just going to be trouble.
Give them a little Israel up in Antrim.

If I was a unionist I'd take that offer since time is not on their side.

PokeHerKing

martinedwards wrote: »

Ok instead of the usual, yellow numberplate/petrol bomb as soon as you cross the border/Derry girls are easy thread......

Boards seems to be a strongly Pro united Ireland community

Ok, lets say that there is a border poll.

Having a minority with strong anti ruler views has historically not been the most peaceful system in the North.

so,

how would you persuade the folk that are terrified of all the things that they PERCEIVE to be against them in an all island Irish nation?

and lets be honest, "Suck it up, my auntie Brigit was spat on by a brit soldier in 1972" isn't going to persuade the likes of Sammy Wilson that it's a good idea.

Discuss!

If the majority on the island vote for a UI, once we've the Irish army on the streets of the six counties we can start to round up all the Sammy Wilsons and have the container ship waiting to sail them all back to Scotland.

screamer

Not interested in taking on that basket case for the sake of a united ireland. They don’t identify as Irish in any way. There’s no convincing them and why would anyone waste their breath. They are people who struggle for an identity, England doesn’t class them as British , Ireland class them as Northern Irish and they worship a Dutchman dead the last 319 years...

Zebra3

PokeHerKing wrote: »

If the majority on the island vote for a UI, once we've the Irish army on the streets of the six counties we can start to round up all the Sammy Wilsons and have the container ship waiting to sail them all back to Scotland.

This is hugely important.

Nobody, and I mean nobody, wants to see Sammy march around the place in the altogether.

banie01

Unionism has been betrayed.
The backstabbing of May, the support for Boris' bombast and the DUP's original support for Brexit without any appreciation or explanation of what that would mean for N.I has caused huge harm and mistrust amongst the Unionist and even the status quo folk up north.

The largest party cannot be trusted to represent it's constituents honestly.
The smaller parties are all too close to fringe lunacy on some positions to gain an upper hand on the DUP imo.

If you look at the current state of affairs, with intervention again required by the N.I secretary to set up abortion services, a year after their authorisation.
Held because of DUP intransigence.

I think we would need to be very clear with all in N.I that parity of esteem matters.
Your religion matters and it's not going to be taken from you or diluted.
We would also however need to highlight the role religion plays in Irish politics.
Small, and reducing, we reinforce that by removing the religious order from the NMH and while we ensure all beliefs are respected!
We do not legislate as a theocracy.

A united Ireland will require us folk from the 26 to adjust our view of the north and to be not just inclusive, but to embrace our brethren.

Maybe not marching on the 12th, but perhaps a bank should be considered?
Invite orange lodges and pipe and drum bands to march on Patrick's Day.
Celebrate what unites us, whilst respecting the differences.

The celebration of the Boyne by the Unionists is their foundation myth, we can't kick it out from under them without their screaming foul.

Let's instead continue to educate, to collaborate and to align.
It will take a generation post "union" to bear fruit, but surely it's worth it?

The North needs to sort out it's social and economic crap before it should be allowed into the Republic. It simply has far too much nasty baggage, and the Unionists are only part of that. The Republicans are just as bad, and are highly unlikely to calmly settle down to play good citizens in Ireland.

I think the threat of a United Ireland would get me off my arse, and willing to publicly campaign against it. Unification would fck this country up for decades (if not longer) due having to deal with all that ****e.

Five Eighth

screamer wrote: »

Not interested in taking on that basket case for the sake of a united ireland. They don’t identify as Irish in any way. There’s no convincing them and why would anyone waste their breath. They are people who struggle for an identity, England doesn’t class them as British , Ireland class them as Northern Irish and they worship a Dutchman dead the last 319 years...

Fair enough. Understand why you would take that view. There have been and are a number of threads discussing Northern Ireland and it's place in the modern world. From what I can gather, posters who take a similar position to your goodself don't ever mention any acknowledgement of responsibility to those of our fellow Irish men and women who live in the six counties. It's always about the Unionist community and their hardline attitude towards a UI. If a majority in the NI vote for a UI, is there any duty upon us Irish to welcome our fellow Irish people 'home'?

Zebra3

banie01 wrote: »

Unionism has been betrayed.

Unionism betrayed itself.

DUP/UUP used loyalists when it suited them and then threw them to the wolves when it suited them. Bit like the Tan forces. Actually a lot like.

Nigel Dodds living in middle class Banbridge while representing North Belfast. talk about an absolute disconnect. Tears may have been shed locally for Finucane taking the seat, but certainly not for who lost it.

The flat earthers in the DUP are totally out of touch with WC protestant young people. Imagine an 18 year old putting up on their social media they are joining a party which is full of head cases that believe the earth is a few thousand years old and is against abortion services while saying they want no difference between NI and Britain. They'd be laughed at.

They're losing the best of their dwindling number of young people. They are getting outmaneuvered by SF (who like it or not, have modernised), but sitting MPs and councillors would rather not upset middle class old folk and risk losing their seat, but instead are damaging the long term future of what they claim to be loyal to.

It's going to take a charismatic young person to step in a save unionism as they'll need to have more and more of them 'uns on their side to save the union as time goes by.

And I don't see it happening.

There'll be murals of the current DUP leadership in the Falls, Ardoyne and the Bog in years to come.

whisky_galore

We have enough religious conservatives here in Fr Ted land, don't really feel the need to "reach out" to the ultra conservative, bat-sh1t crazy, let's take the Bible literally brethren up there.

Irish Praetorian

I really think people over-estimate the likelihood of a majority vote in the North for a United Ireland - the 'Catholic' portion of the population is lingering around the 45% mark, whilst although the 'Protestant' proportion is declining and ageing much faster, there is an increasing cohort of 'neither'. This new 'neither' cohort is far more likely to be convinced by more secular and pragmatic arguments about their future, and such pragmatism would probably lead them to stay in the UK. Even the process of Brexit has not stirred things up dramatically.

martinedwards

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Aren't half of them employed by the UK government up there? I think there are tonnes of public service and civil service jobs that were put there to keep them quiet. What do we do with those people?
The north is in a better place now than it maybe ever has been, I'm not sure why any rational person would want to be part of our country.

Yup. And a load of call centres. A lot of GB banks, who will likely pull out.

Irish Praetorian

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

I really think people over-estimate the likelihood of a majority vote in the North for a United Ireland - the 'Catholic' portion of the population is lingering around the 45% mark, whilst although the 'Protestant' proportion is declining and ageing much faster, there is an increasing cohort of 'neither'. This new 'neither' cohort is far more likely to be convinced by more secular and pragmatic arguments about their future, and such pragmatism would probably lead them to stay in the UK. Even the process of Brexit has not stirred things up dramatically.

Catholics likely outnumber protestant already in ni

https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/news/latest/2020/12/northern-ireland-census.aspx



Unionism is being let down by its leaders in shouting down any debate as regards a unity poll.....they will be vastly under prepared come what may as regards it,and have no card remaining to play....

they tried so hard to get a hard border to cut nationlists off from the south/strengten partition and when push come to serve,the british government fcuked em over......no amount of lies,will detract from fact,the ni protocol is a result of dup policy surronding brexit

Five Eighth

Deleted User wrote: »

Catholics likely outnumber protestant already in ni

https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/news/latest/2020/12/northern-ireland-census.aspx



Unionism is being let down by its leaders in shouting down any debate as regards a unity poll.....they will be vastly under prepared come what may as regards it,and have no card remaining to play....

they tried so hard to get a hard border to cut nationlists off from the south/strengten partition and when push come to serve,the british government fcuked em over......no amount of lies,will detract from fact,the ni protocol is a result of dup policy surronding brexit

Agree. I felt that prior to Brexit, the situation on this island was fairly calm. Northern nationalists had an open border and unionists had their link to the UK. The DUP, totally out of an attempt to reintroduce a hard border on this island, canvassed for Brexit. They sold the 'sunny uplands' spiel and were played by their Tory masters. No vision, backward and now pandering to the TUV.

banie01

Zebra3 wrote: »

Unionism betrayed itself.

DUP/UUP used loyalists when it suited them and then threw them to the wolves when it suited them. Bit like the Tan forces.

I 100% agree with your points.
The betrayal of Unionism was led by the DUP, it was finished off by the claims of no border in the Irish sea and the fallout of not actually doing a jot to prepare for Brexit.

The more the demographic changes in N.I even amongst protestant folk.
The more they will veer away from the fundamental lunacy of religious unionism and focus more on the tangible benefits of what GB outside of the EU allows them.

I think the move by Ireland to ensure N.I students continue to have access to Erasmus is very shrewd and long sighted.
Similar with E111 and other such pan EU schemes.

There is a long game at play, but that needs reciprocation and engagement by the communities up north.
Ideally I'd love to see SDLP gain the DUP votes lost come the next assembly elections and the end of fundamentalism as part of N.I politics.

There is little harder to talk to than a Presbyterian railing on the word of God and its place in politics.
If that can be gives from politics and returned to church.
N.I can turn a corner quicker than we would believe.

Fake Scores

A lot of people assume that the catholic population in the North all want a United Ireland.

It's around 50% and doesn't change too much off that mark over the years and decades.

Remember the 'troubles' in the North kicked off over civil rights. The catholics fighting against a quasi Apartheid society. Not any teary eyed, four green fields nonsense.

Fake Scores

Fake Scores wrote: »

A lot of people assume that the catholic population in the North all want a United Ireland.

It's around 50% and doesn't change too much off that mark over the years and decades.

Remember the 'troubles' in the North kicked off over civil rights. The catholics fighting against a quasi Apartheid society. Not any teary eyed, four green fields nonsense.

Lucid talk,the polling company for ni,puts the difference between pro unity and againest it at 1.3%....with circa 8% undecided

They called the brexit poll result in ni,to within half a percent......a unity poll is too close for any side to be confident of success in ni


Theres as likely as many protestants in favour of unity as catholics againest it imo......for a border poll to pass,requires in theory,less than one in 40 unionists to either not vote,or vote for unity.......its within reach for nationlists and a scottish indy vote,would bolster it imo

If we could unify and then fast forward 20 years things would be great.

Arlene herself said she would leave if unity happened. Hopefully the hardcore would move to Scotland or England if they really couldn’t stomach a UI. Maybe the British and EU and maybe even the US could provide grants to relocate them.

ShagNastii

I’d be a big history buff. To be perfectly honest at this stage a United Ireland would be entirely driven by a romantic idea of our modern history being fulfilled.

Would it even be “a win” in the 2020’s? Since the GFA it has basically been a borderless country.

I must say stemming from Brexit it had been fun seeing the UK completely disregarding the Unionists. It must be so painful for them having to show a British front when it has never been clearer that mainlanders from Land's End to John o' Groats couldn’t give a shiny sh*t about them.