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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 866 ✭✭✭jams100


    RobitTV wrote: »

    Whether you agree with the restrictions or not, if you said that we would still be in lockdown this time last year, then you wouldn't be surprised that there are protests.
    I have to say that I do understand them...decisions just haven't been evidenced based for a long time now.
    It's a hard job for the governments no doubt, but we do ourselves no favours by outsourcing everything to NPHET who are only going to suggest one thing! A more nuanced approach is needed and it's needed now


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭RobitTV


    London live feed



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 866 ✭✭✭jams100


    DTownD wrote: »
    Most people n the thread don't want to open up everything immediately. We just want a plan to ease out of one of the longest, strictest lockdowns in the world, step by step.

    Then there's the extremists on both sides including those who want more lockdown, harder lockdown to prevent any future lockdowns!

    Exactly!

    - It's unfathomable that golf courses/tennis courts remain closed.

    - That hotels/restaurants with massive outdoor carparks can't serve food/drinks outdoors with social distancing

    - That antigen tests aren't used more widely

    - That the 5km limit is still in place

    - The long term damage of these strict restrictions will be felt for years to come through: increased business closures, an ever increasing wealth divide, mental health crises thats most likely going to be identified after covid and an increase in the far right (partially because people are being segregated into either far right or non far right)


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,341 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue





    Absolute sense.

    He said the below have had no lockdowns
    Iceland
    Norway
    Finland
    Cyprus
    Greece
    Malta

    but


    Norway
    On 12 March, a national lockdown was announced, effective from 18:00 the same day. For two weeks, schools, kindergartens, fitness centres, hair salons etc. were closed. Sports and cultural events and gatherings were banned and restrictions applied to restaurants.[

    Finland
    On 16 March, the Government also announced they had decided to take the following measures by issuing a decree on implementing the Emergency Powers Act. The measures were scheduled to be in place until 13 April, after approval by the Parliament of Finland, but were later extended to 13 May:[34][35][36][37]

    All schools will be closed, not including early education.
    Most government-run public facilities (theatres, libraries, museums etc.) will be shut down.
    Critical personnel will be exempted from the Working Hours Act and Annual Holidays Act, both in the private and public sector.

    Cyprus
    On 10 January, a new full lockdown—the country's second since the start of the pandemic—began and was scheduled to last until 31 January.[50] Dr. Karayiannis cited a full lockdown as the only way to curb the spread of the virus and said that a rise in cases should be expected (stemming from the Christmas period) before the numbers start to come down.[51]

    On 1 February, the January lockdown was extended while shops and barbers were allowed to reopen under strict guidelines. Measures re-implemented from the first lockdown included a night-time curfew, no more than two people from the same household leaving their home, a requirement to send text messages to a special phone number to get permission before going out, and a maximum limit of three hours outside

    Greece
    on 13 March, to close down all cafes, sports leagues bars, museums, shopping centres, sports facilities and restaurants in the country. On 16 March, all retail shops were also closed and all services in all areas of religious worship of any religion or dogma were suspended. The government has announced a series of measures worth a total of around 24 billion euros, 14% of the country's GDP, to support the economy.[2]

    On 22 March, the Greek authorities announced restrictions on all non-essential movement throughout the country

    Greece put in place new measures and restrictions on movement and business activity from 7 November 2020. Kindergartens, primary schools and special schools initially remained open, unlike the first lockdown in March, while middle and high schools switched to distance learning.[11] On 14 November 2020, primary schools and kindergartens closed, initially for two weeks, and from 18 November 2020 they switched to distance learning.

    On 14 December 2020 shops (utilizing the click away method)[12] as well as hairdressers and other facilities were allowed to open, while schools and restaurants remained closed. On 2 January 2021, starting from the next day, all the measures lifted or relaxed on 14 December were reinstated until 18 January, citing the opening of schools as reason for these measures.[13] However, the government's planned reopening of all schools on 8 or 11 January was criticised by many epidemiologists in the country and, in the end, only primary schools reopened on 11 January,[14] with secondary schools following suit on 1 February.

    In late January 2021 the third wave began. On 12 February 2021 Attica was again placed in lockdown with the closure of schools (except high schools which had remained closed since early November) and retail outlets, but virus cases continued their rapid growth reaching 3,215 on March 9. Local lockdowns were imposed in more and more local districts resulting in the closure of high schools.[citation needed] On March 4, new measures were taken, including placing all Greece in the highest level of measures, thus closing high schools everywhere in Greece.

    Malta
    On the 10th of March 2021, following 510 new reported cases, the Maltese Government announced new measured that would go into effect on the 11th of March. These were:[36]

    Schools to close on Monday and lessons shift online
    Non-essential shops, restaurants, cafes, bars, casinos and services closed from tomorrow
    Childcare centres to close from Monday
    All ancillary services in hotels will be shut
    Gozo travel restricted to essential travel and to those who own property there
    Public group gatherings will be limited to 4 people
    All organised sport activities are suspended
    Pools, gyms, museums, theatres and cinemas will close

    As for Portugal
    2021
    January 15 : Government reinstates nationwide lockdown due to a surge in new cases.[22]
    March 11 : The country launches its second time lockdown for a month. There are now a totaling 813,152 confirmed cases, 16,650 deaths since the pandemic broke out and 793,162 people have taken the vaccination


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,268 ✭✭✭Elessar


    These aren't protestors or ordinary people they're far right yobs looking for an excuse to paint the town red

    Incorrect.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,388 ✭✭✭LessOutragePlz


    These aren't protestors or ordinary people they're far right yobs looking for an excuse to paint the town red

    Complete nonsense.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    These aren't protestors or ordinary people they're far right yobs looking for an excuse to paint the town red
    Far right yobs are people too ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 965 ✭✭✭SnuggyBear


    I went to off licence last night and the traffic and amount of people everywhere seemed like a normal pre covid Friday night.
    I really don't think that many are adhering to any rules any more.
    Someone mentioned Spain, I was there for 7 weeks last summer and life was going on as normal, my parents are there now and they can go out for drinks or meals or to the beach, although I think maybe travel between provinces is not allowed unless you have a good reason.
    So with no one following the rules anyway, they may as well open up a few things, I really don't think it would make that much difference to the numbers at the moment. But that's just like, my opinion, man, I can't see anything opening up any time soon.

    People are doing what they want and it's only going to get worse as the weather gets nicer. The government will carry on waging the finger telling people to stop being naughty.

    Business will be closed most of the summer yet people will be gathering together and ignoring restrictions. Completely pointless like last summer.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    Elessar wrote: »
    Incorrect.

    The "far right" seems to lurk under the beds of every establishment supporter, always there to use as an excuse to dismiss the opinions of millions.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,014 ✭✭✭✭Corholio


    The thread wants everything open today.

    Trouble is some take the reasonable opinions of the likes of lambert and moynagh and twist them into the rabid anti lockdown agenda.

    In the space of a couple of words you went from a blanketing, nonsensical statement, 'everyone here wants to open everything!' to 'why aren't people taking the reasonable views of so and so?'

    Contradiction and faux wanting to be reasonable are an ugly mix.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,718 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    He wants the same outcome. As few deaths as possible. He believes there was a different route that could have been taken. The thread wants everything open today.

    Trouble is some take the reasonable opinions of the likes of lambert and moynagh and twist them into the rabid anti lockdown agenda. Lambert believes a system of chasing down the virus could have been implemented without lockdowns- a kind of Swedish/ Taiwan hybrid model maybe. Reasonable position, haven’t seen it anywhere though. Moynagh is expressing the view that the virus is seasonal, certainly will happen, Italian evidence suggests this may be premature however. For the virus to become a seasonal cold enough of the population need to have been exposed through vaccination or prior infection.

    The arguments of Monaghan and Lambert are looking for a different way and represent the reasonable arguments with used to exist, not to open up everything immediately

    The only twisting here is yourself. No body called for everything to be open today but for common bloody sense to prevail.

    Why are we the only place in Europe with building sites closed?

    Why do we have golf courses closed?

    why haven't we been using antigen testing?

    why do nphet treat us like fools making stupid statements that basically tell us the virus can't spread if you are in school?


    A couple of simple questions of the top of my head that highlight how inept this government are.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,893 ✭✭✭the kelt


    Corholio wrote: »
    In the space of a couple of words you went from a blanketing, nonsensical statement, 'everyone here wants to open everything!' to 'why aren't people taking the reasonable views of so and so?'

    Contradiction and faux wanting to be reasonable are an ugly mix.

    The ignorance is unreal,

    “The thread wants everything open today”

    Couldn’t be further from the truth but twist away anyway.

    The thread has been a discussion taking in everything from lockdown even harder, to the lockdown is enough, to ease a few restrictions to ease every restriction and open up da fook.

    And then calls for others to be reasonable!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭Deusexmachina


    More than a few bruised heads are needed there irresponsible stuff

    Are you really suggesting violence against peaceful protesters? Surely a democracy should welcome opposing views?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,000 ✭✭✭Stormyteacup


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    He said the below have had no lockdowns
    Iceland
    Norway
    Finland
    Cyprus
    Greece
    Malta

    but


    Norway


    Finland


    Cyprus


    Greece


    Malta


    As for Portugal

    But he was was referring to total workplace day closures? His frame of reference is from the Oxford study of severity of lockdowns so I can understand where the confusion lies.

    However his point was relating to closed business days, he did not state those countries had no form of lockdown.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭Deusexmachina


    These aren't protestors or ordinary people they're far right yobs looking for an excuse to paint the town red

    You have no evidence of that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,025 ✭✭✭growleaves


    He said the below have had no lockdowns
    Iceland
    Norway
    Finland
    Cyprus
    Greece
    Malta

    No he didn't.

    Besides which is it well known that Sweden was the only European country without a lockdown and that its neighbours (Norway, Finland) did have lockdowns.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,231 ✭✭✭Del Griffith


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    He said the below have had no lockdowns
    Iceland
    Norway
    Finland
    Cyprus
    Greece
    Malta

    but


    Norway


    Finland


    Cyprus


    Greece


    Malta


    As for Portugal

    I can't believe you wasted all that time on such a long post responding to a point he never made.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,785 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    Absolutely pathetic reading posters in the main thread arguing over the distance restrictions being county or 20km.
    If the Govt told them they needed to hop on one leg in level 5 the lemmings would be all over it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 966 ✭✭✭alentejo


    At this stage I would bite your hand off to have a 20k limit


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,535 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    Jesus remember back in January (which seems like an age ago) we were all positive about the vaccines working and we would be out of this hell before the summer ??.

    Not looking very likely now for some reason, vaccine supply issues and gatherings at protests not to forget incompetence by our leaders. NPHET will keep pushing for moditifed levels til everyone in the country is fully vaccinated

    Hospitality will be edited out of Level 3 along with other stupid decisions


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    SnuggyBear wrote: »
    People are doing what they want and it's only going to get worse as the weather gets nicer. The government will carry on waging the finger telling people to stop being naughty.

    Business will be closed most of the summer yet people will be gathering together and ignoring restrictions. Completely pointless like last summer.

    The absolute majority of people are sticking with the restrictions. And taking advantage of the days when the weather is good. The government is continuing to be consistant about the need to observe restrictions in order to keep case numbers from increasing again whilst vaccination is rolled out. And no it hasn't been perfect. But that's where we are.

    Lots of businesses are open. Some non essential businesses may remain closed but certainly not all. And the majority of people will continue to have a bit of common sense.

    A recent poll shows that over 90% of people are observing the restrictions all of the time / Most of the time 

    https://www.thejournal.ie/poll-are-you-still-adhering-to-the-level-5-restrictions-5382680-Mar2021/


    The rest is just pot stirring.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,320 ✭✭✭✭hynesie08


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    Jesus remember back in January (which seems like an age ago) we were all positive about the vaccines working and we would be out of this hell before the summer ??.

    Not looking very likely now for some reason, vaccine supply issues and gatherings at protests not to forget incompetence by our leaders. NPHET will keep pushing for moditifed levels til everyone in the country is fully vaccinated

    Hospitality will be edited out of Level 3 along with other stupid decisions

    Did I miss something? Are vaccines not working?

    I get the impression if you stubbed your toe on the bed you'd try and blame nphet.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    Jesus remember back in January (which seems like an age ago) we were all positive about the vaccines working and we would be out of this hell before the summer ??.

    Not looking very likely now for some reason, vaccine supply issues and gatherings at protests not to forget incompetence by our leaders. NPHET will keep pushing for moditifed levels til everyone in the country is fully vaccinated

    Hospitality will be edited out of Level 3 along with other stupid decisions

    I remember all the rage too from the pro lockdown people, in the thread about this year being a write off, anytime someone agreed that it would be. They've been wrong about nearly everything they've predicted along the way, yet they haven't learned a thing. They are completely hopeless, yet somehow still righteous.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,052 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    Ya, amount of times I've read vaccines will be the game changer, Pfizer comes and no difference, wait AZ will be the game changer then J&J will be it. Then that supply will increase this month or next month and again no difference.

    Just delusion at this stage.

    Need to start living with it and if small amounts die, so be it unfortunately. Limit spread as much as possible (so no hospitality, encourage outdoors stuff) but stop this writing off of people's lives to protect others. At this point, it's gone too long.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 27 Diamondhands


    TomTomTim wrote: »
    I remember all the rage too from the pro lockdown people, in the thread about this year being a write off, anytime someone agreed that it would be. They've been wrong about nearly everything they've predicted along the way, yet they haven't learned a thing. They are completely hopeless, yet somehow still righteous.

    Their relentless defence of the Government despite them not capable of doing less to get us out of this is staggering.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,341 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    But he was was referring to total workplace day closures? His frame of reference is from the Oxford study of severity of lockdowns so I can understand where the confusion lies.

    However his point was relating to closed business days, he did not state those countries had no form of lockdown.

    Does anyone have a link to this study?

    What I was reading was saying restaurants and non essential retail were closed so I don't know how that isnt a workplace day closure.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    titan18 wrote: »
    Ya, amount of times I've read vaccines will be the game changer, Pfizer comes and no difference, wait AZ will be the game changer then J&J will be it. Then that supply will increase this month or next month and again no difference.

    Just delusion at this stage.

    Need to start living with it and if small amounts die, so be it unfortunately. Limit spread as much as possible (so no hospitality, encourage outdoors stuff) but stop this writing off of people's lives to protect others. At this point, it's gone too long.

    In what alternate reality is the vaccination schedule not going ahead?

    And do you really believe that someone can snap their fingers and everyone will be vaccinated

    The whole world and his brother are attempting to get people vaccinated. Has their been supply problems - yes there has. That is hardly surprising tbh.

    In ordinary times vaccines take years to develop - we are fortunate that not one but several vaccines are now available.

    And you're ok to throw that out the window and if people die so be it?

    Btw what is your definition of a "small amount" dieing? Would something like January's figures of 1,000 deaths and more than 100,000 cases per month be ok for you?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,000 ✭✭✭Stormyteacup


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    Does anyone have a link to this study?

    What I was reading was saying restaurants and non essential retail were closed so I don't know how that isnt a workplace day closure.

    Yes there were workplace closures everywhere, for a period of time, just for not as long as we have experienced here. His point was that businesses here have been closed more days than just about everywhere else, and in come cases by many days. Sorry I don't have the link handy but I'm sure someone will oblige otherwise will try dig it up later.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,000 ✭✭✭Stormyteacup


    gozunda wrote: »
    The absolute majority of people are sticking with the restrictions. And taking advantage of the days when the weather is good. The government is continuing to be consistant about the need to observe restrictions in order to keep case numbers from increasing again whilst vaccination is rolled out. And no it hasn't been perfect. But that's where we are.

    Lots of businesses are open. Some non essential businesses may remain closed but certainly not all. And the majority of people will continue to have a bit of common sense.

    A recent poll shows that over 90% of people are observing the restrictions all of the time / Most of the time 

    https://www.thejournal.ie/poll-are-you-still-adhering-to-the-level-5-restrictions-5382680-Mar2021/


    The rest is just pot stirring.

    I'm wondering what you might mean by this in bold? If someone is strictly sticking to restrictions as per guidelines - what does the weather have to do with it? I guess maybe you can sit outside in your bubble group if you're lucky enough to have a bubble group plus outdoor seating area? Or sit outside in the company of your own household, again if you have outside seating area. Or go for an extra-long jog/cycle within your 5km as it's not raining.

    Otherwise restrictions are to stay at home unless essential....you can meet one person outside your bubble for exercise within 5km, I guess you can bend that easily if you're so inclined. You could meet several people in your social circle by that interpretation - we went for a walk and then we got a coffee, and next week I'm going for a walk with someone else not in my bubble and we will also get a coffee for a chat post-exercise... but if you are actually sticking to restrictions these examples are flouting regulations.

    It's all to an interpretation to a degree of what's acceptable to you and your immediate peers/family based on your perception of risk.

    I would add that I believe a level of adherence to official guidelines has been built into easing of restrictions. They don't need everyone to be completely conscientious and rigourous in adhering to restrictions. Just enough short of critical mass.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,014 ✭✭✭✭Corholio


    Over a 1/4 of counties today with less than 5 cases, Dublin the big outlier compared to almost every other county. Two counties with zero cases.


This discussion has been closed.
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