Enduro wrote: »
Which potentially loops back in the original point of the thread, in that logging in and of itself is to my mind an over-complication.
demfad wrote: »
You're right Enduro there hasn't been a bust up here in yonks. :mad: Let's have at it!! :pac:
pansophelia wrote: »
To answer the first post, if you are a true beginner to running, and especially if you are a beginner to sport in general, it is a bit complicated! I trained for the mini marathon in my early 20s and loved it, but gave up running a few weeks after, as I couldn't seem to keep running - I was running every run like a race. This was pre-boards time, and I had absolutely no idea about how to start running. I didn't understand about pacing, long runs, speed workouts. I wouldn't have understood what an easy run was. Like I've seen other beginners here say, I thought 'if only I could get my breathing sorted I'd be fine!' So telling beginners to just get out and run, and run easy sometimes doesn't work as they won't necessarily know what that means (I've told people this too btw). That's why the Novice thread is so successful, there's a real hunger for direction. And running clubs aren't for everyone - I had a super experience with a club in London, but have felt too slow to join the Dublin clubs nearest to me.
So when I started running again seven years later, I had to learn all of this stuff. And tbh I'm still learning. A lot of the learning came from here. Understanding why my running might be falling off a cliff (iron deficiency), why my knees were suddenly causing me trouble (ITB, lack of strength), the reason some weeks were so much tougher than others (periods), why I was struggling with motivation at times (not enough truly easy running).
peter kern wrote: »
which is why i pointed out to zico using shoes for 189 euro when he could have used doc martins , is hardly showing to beginner to keep it simple, as they are likely to think if he waers 189 euro shoes than maybe i have to wear them too. if he uses a garmin for every single run maybe i should too. of course they should see first that he runs a lot but this is where the marketing industy plays a good game .
robinph wrote: »
So, how do we convince a new runner to just do it for fun, not to try and destroy themselves on every run, don't worry about heart rate or cadence and just run, or walk but mostly just move at a comfortable pace? I hear lots of people raving about the likes of couch 2 5km apps, but never having used one, are they approaching things from a different perspective and making it more about just maintaining forward momentum and ignoring the pace?
What would have convinced relatively the new runners here to take things simpler early on? How can the perception of what running is be changed for those joining for the first time?
peter kern wrote: »
at the end of the day a lot of the complication is driven from the top t0 bottom ie pretty much every new gadgeds etc is usually given to the fastest guys first , project 2 for instance then top amateurs adopt the shoes then amateur and then beginners
same with hr monitors garmins they when not used by beginners yet there is very little evidence that they are better than training with perceived effort scales.
so the reason beginners have this overfloat of information is not so much a beginner issue its a sport issue .
now sub 2 project just happened to be the first time in 4 decades or so that a promoted game changer shoe ... actually is a real improvement at the same time for each new invention that makes a real improvement you have 100 products that dont .
so the main issue for runners is to filter what works in general and what works for me. for everything there is responders and non responders.
the thing is if the somewhat more experience athlete cant work it out how is the beginner supposed to work it out who sees all this people using this and that and talking about this and that .
which is why i pointed out to zico using shoes for 189 euro when he could have used doc martins , is hardly showing to beginner to keep it simple, as they are likely to think if he waers 189 euro shoes than maybe i have to wear them too. if he uses a garmin for every single run maybe i should too. of course they should see first that he runs a lot but this is where the marketing industy plays a good game . its not easy to make money of selliing consistency they have to promote other things most of the time the fluff.
so i would say the problem is much more driven from top to bottom than from bottom to top .
pansophelia wrote: »
I think that's a great question. Part of the issue is I suppose, that not all beginners are created equal. Some beginners have a background in sport, have spent years doing GAA, soccer, cycling, swimming etc, so even if they've never done much running, they have a good aerobic fitness and have some idea about the principles of training. They could probably head straight out the door and do a couple of miles on their first ever time running. Heard Sophie Power, a UK ultra runner on a podcast lately, she signed up for Comrades and completed it having only ever run a couple of miles - but she had taken up team sport in university and had done a lot of multi-day hikes.
pansophelia wrote: »
So true - the marketing can be really distracting. Instagram might be making it worse. I think most of my early gear was from Penneys, apart from the sports bra and the runners, and I ran my first Dublin marathon with a ten euro stopwatch from Argos - I wouldn't dream of doing that now.
It's an issue too as even though running is potentially a really cheap sport, it isn't as diverse as you'd hope, and I wonder are the runners and the gear and the gadgets contributing to that?
zico10 wrote: »
After a few weeks running, beginners are coming on here with a list of questions about breathing, cadence, heart rate, etc., etc., questions that are akin to the marginal gains Team Sky were chasing in professional cycling. Instead of being told not to worry about what is essentially the icing on a much, much bigger cake, they are given an answer that I’d need the Rosetta Stone to decipher.
Meanwhile over in the logs, a very experienced runner recognises the improvements another logger is making, are down to the simplicity and consistency of his training. Yet the same runner goes out the door with sessions programmed into his Garmin* that draw on the ideas of several different training plans. Then a few weeks later, after having listened to one too many podcasts and digested the contents of yet another training plan, decides things aren’t working and changes things once more.
*This is a big assumption possibly, but from looking at some of his runs on Strava, I don’t know how else he’d remember what he has to do.
At its most basic, running is merely putting one foot in front of the other as fast as you can. It’s an innate ability we all have, and when it comes to training, “Keep it simple and straightforward!” is possibly the best advice you’ll get.
PS. No slight intended to any poster.
BeginnerRunner wrote: »
WRT the OP - I think the Bruce Lee 3 punches anecdote is most apt. When you first lunch to punch, a punch is just a punch. Then when you start to learn - a punch is no longer a punch. Then when you master it, a punch is just a punch again.
"In the beginning when you are learning something, and you’re asked to throw a punch, you do and there’s no technique or learning behind it, a punch is just a punch.
In the second stage of learning you start to break down all the components of a punch. You understand your stance, your fist, you practice, and you try and find the best punch. A punch is no longer just a punch.
Finally, in the third stage you return to “A punch is just a punch.” Except this time, it’s something you have broken down, practiced, understood, and integrated, such that you no longer have to think about it, it’s automatic yet skilled.
These ideas can be applied to learning anything—it’s a progression from novice to mastery."