Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX Read OP For Mod Warnings

Kermit.de.frog · 11-03-2021 02:35PM

Graham wrote: »

Are you new to this thread?

The goal posts change daily when inconvenient truths are brought up.

While some didn't want to open as much at Christmas many in the thread did.

Today many in the thread are looking for close to or a full opening when that would lead us to being to this exact same position in a couple of months time.

They want to ignore the common sense approach of getting a large proportion of the population vaccinated and seeing out the decline in infections, hospitalisations and deaths.

That way we do have certainty.

What some here want to do is bring back uncertainty by opening up prematurely and screwing up all the progress and landing us right back here within weeks.

It's not thought through.

retro:electro · 11-03-2021 02:38PM

Allinall wrote: »

Essential V Non-essential.

There is no such thing as essential vs non essential at this stage when it comes down to livelihoods

growleaves · 11-03-2021 02:38PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The goal posts change daily when inconvenient truths are brought up.

While some didn't want to open as much at Christmas many in the thread did.

Today many in the thread are looking for close to or a full opening when that would lead us to being to this exact same position in a couple of months time.

They want to ignore the common sense approach of getting a large proportion of the population vaccinated and seeing out the decline in infections, hospitalisations and deaths.

That way we do have certainty.

What some here want to do is back uncertainty by opening up prematurely and screwing up all the progress and landing us right back here within weeks.

It's not thought through.

Ah but the Government have already 'floated' another Autumn-Winter lockdown.

You yourself have boasted about years of restrictions, even when you knew this vaccine was coming.

Newflash: people don't trust the restrictionists - and if they slam shut the country next Autumn that is another solid six months of hibernation on top of the spring/summer lockdowns.

jrosen · 11-03-2021 02:39PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Kick in the teeth for non essential retail shops and barbers/hairdressers/beauticians that wont be opening until at least May.Love to know whats the differance between having a packed supermarket open or a small local family run business opened(where numbers can be controlled)

Quite simple, essential V non essential.

It is not possible to social distance in those jobs, the majority of people who will cross the door are also not likely to be vaccinated due to where we are in vaccine rollout.

Probes · 11-03-2021 02:42PM

JRant wrote: »

Nope, once we get to 80% vaccinated that's the end of it. No more restrictions, I mean how could they be legal after that? There has to be a strong justification to extend the current laws and that disappears once we hit herd immunity.

Why are you saying nope to me? I don’t think you read my posts and you seem to just want to disagree with me. I didn’t say restrictions should remain once we reach herd immunity, I said we can’t be careless and open up too quickly before reaching herd immunity.

Eivor · 11-03-2021 02:43PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Amazing the way you guys just don't want to talk about the disaster that was Christmas. You all supported it despite all warnings.

It went exactly as we told you it would. The consequences are exactly what we told you they would be.

Now you want to stick your fingers in your ears while arguing we make the same error again.

Funny that.

We didn’t have most of the elderly vaccinated at Christmas and it’s also not winter anymore. Boring.

11-03-2021 02:43PM

OwenM wrote: »

The case numbers have less and less meaning as a proxy for admissions and deaths because of how many are vaccinated and the cohorts they are from. Going to level 3 on April 4th is entirely justified.

I never sad it wasn't. Which is why I also said level 1 and full reopening should be contingent on vaccinations not cases. 200 cases a day with old and pre-existing conditions vaccinated is well manageable with minimal restrictions

11-03-2021 02:44PM

TonyMaloney wrote: »

Wow. That's some of the most blatantly obvious whataboutery I've ever witnessed.
I've absolutely no interest in engaging in yet another discussion about the state broadcaster, thanks.

Have you actually read the "leaks" from Gript. It's the biggest pile of bollocks I've ever seen. The latest is that apparently ISAG think Ivor Cummins is a charlatan.

What a scoop!

This was interesting from the GRipt article

We asked Professor Killeen to comment on the content of this article prior to publication. He thanked us for reaching out to him but said “I’ve got my hands full already and happy to leave this one to your best judgement.”

Dont like or agree with Killeen, but this is essentially "print what you want, no one is paying attention to the ****e ye are reporting anyway"

corcaigh07 · 11-03-2021 02:46PM

Literally saw two articles today where Varadkar said they would be looking at easing restrictions on funeral numbers and some other areas followed by an article where he said that absolutely will not be happening this side of April 5th.

11-03-2021 02:49PM

corcaigh07 wrote: »

Literally saw two articles today where Varadkar said they would be looking at easing restrictions on funeral numbers and some other areas followed by an article where he said that absolutely will not be happening this side of April 5th.

Leo is exceptionally talented at talking out of both sides of his mouth at once.

growleaves · 11-03-2021 02:49PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Dont like or agree with Killeen, but this is essentially "print what you want, no one is paying attention to the ****e ye are reporting anyway"

Right but if an independent scientist is co-ordinating media coverage that is very bad.

If someone doesn't understand why that is bad, as a few here seem not to, that in itself speaks very badly of them.

Academics and truth-seekers are not supposed to be knee-deep in the hack-world of spin, manipulation and managing public perception. That is PR work.

If this is now considered normal it represents a decline in standards.

People's dissatisfaction with the reporting medium (Gript) doesn't explain-away the problem.

11-03-2021 02:56PM

growleaves wrote: »

Right but if an independent scientist is co-ordinating media coverage that is very bad.

If someone doesn't understand why that is bad, as a few here seem not to, that in itself speaks very badly of them.

Academics and truth-seekers are not supposed to be knee-deep in the hack-world of spin, manipulation and managing public perception. That is PR work.

If this is now considered normal it represents a decline in standards.

People's dissatisfaction with the reporting medium (Gript) doesn't explain-away the problem.

Said scientists are all on the outside in this issue, they have no role to play, so all they can do is promote their point of view. Dont agree with them at all, but all they are doing essentially is trying to get their message, their interpretation out. If they were actually skilled at it, no one would know the inner workings of the ISAD's (sic)

lee_baby_simms · 11-03-2021 02:56PM

growleaves wrote: »

Right but if an independent scientist is co-ordinating media coverage that is very bad.

If someone doesn't understand why that is bad, as a few here seem not to, that in itself speaks very badly of them.

Academics and truth-seekers are not supposed to be knee-deep in the hack-world of spin, manipulation and managing public perception. That is PR work.

If this is now considered normal it represents a decline in standards.

People's dissatisfaction with the reporting medium (Gript) doesn't explain-away the problem.

Exactly. Killeen and ISAG decided go down this cynical path engaging in the more dark arts of PR spin is that they know the majority of the public are sitting ducks, there for the taking and easily manipulated. Happy to be spoon fed their own opinions.

Being manipulated is one thing, knowingly turning a blind eye to this kind of stuff is quite another.

lee_baby_simms · 11-03-2021 02:59PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Said scientists are all on the outside in this issue, they have no role to play, so all they can do is promote their point of view. Dont agree with them at all, but all they are doing essentially is trying to get their message, their interpretation out. If they were actually skilled at it, no one would know the inner workings of the ISAD's (sic)

You say that but they have a free daily platform on nearly every media outlet in this country. Virgin media, RTE, Newstalk and podcasts.

Not only this but they are never challenged and get to dictate term of these appearances with our state broadcaster.

So I know you may not pay attention to them but they have a huge influence over public opinion.

11-03-2021 03:06PM

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

You say that but they have a free daily platform on nearly every media outlet in this country. Virgin media, RTE, Newstalk and podcasts.

Not only this but they are never challenged and get to dictate term of these appearances with our state broadcaster.

So I know you may not pay attention to them but they have a huge influence over public opinion.

Whether in RTE or shouting at a lamppost, they have no influence

11-03-2021 03:09PM

jrosen wrote: »

Quite simple, essential V non essential.

It is not possible to social distance in those jobs, the majority of people who will cross the door are also not likely to be vaccinated due to where we are in vaccine rollout.

Have you been in Aldi or Lidl lately? No social distancing at all. Places are like cattle marts. At least with a small shop they can control what numbers come in

Boggles · 11-03-2021 03:11PM

growleaves wrote: »

January and Febuary are the coldest months, they are ground zero for flu (i.e. respiratory illness) season always.

Are we still pretending it's purely seasonal?

Covid-19: Brazil surge reaches new level as daily deaths pass 2,000

Allinall · 11-03-2021 03:15PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Have you been in Aldi or Lidl lately? No social distancing at all. Places are like cattle marts. At least with a small shop they can control what numbers come in

I shop in Aldi every week.

Traffic light system in place controlling numbers. People queuing two meters apart.

As a result of limited numbers, very little queuing time at the tills, so shopping takes no longer than normal.

DellyBelly · 11-03-2021 03:16PM

17larsson wrote: »

I imagine you're the kind of guy that would get your car towed to the NCT centre if it was a day out of date.

Just go to the beach!

I wouldn't let it go past it's NCT date...

thebiglad · 11-03-2021 03:16PM

Boggles wrote: »

Are we still pretending it's purely seasonal?

Covid-19: Brazil surge reaches new level as daily deaths pass 2,000

Population 210m-big numbers but must be kept in context.

normanoffside · 11-03-2021 03:17PM

Boggles wrote: »

Are we still pretending it's purely seasonal?

Covid-19: Brazil surge reaches new level as daily deaths pass 2,000

If it's not seasonal, why have both NPHET and SAGE openly talked about possibly needed to introduce restrictions in winter in the future?

Boggles · 11-03-2021 03:18PM

thebiglad wrote: »

Population 210m-big numbers but must be kept in context.

In the context of seasonal viruses?

d161 · 11-03-2021 03:19PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

They want to ignore the common sense approach of getting a large proportion of the population vaccinated and seeing out the decline in infections, hospitalisations and deaths.

And when will that be? How long would you propose waiting? 6 months, another year??

Because, I believe there will always be boosters required/new mutations requiring a modified vaccine etc. And that ignores the obvious issues we already have in getting and administering 10 million shots of a covid vaccine.

And what then if we get to a stage where the majority of people are vaccinated against Covid. Should we do the same for the flu, i.e. lock down every time there is a virulent strain? Because the flu also overwhelms our hospitals and kills the vulnerable every winter (except this one).

Boggles · 11-03-2021 03:24PM

normanoffside wrote: »

If it's not seasonal,

It isn't, it reacts primarily to how people behave, so it has seasonal aspects, but it is not seasonal or what sometimes referred to as endemic (yet).

Or can you name another period where a 100,000 (at the very minimum) in Brazil died of a traditional seasonal virus during their summer?

normanoffside wrote: »

why have both NPHET and SAGE openly talked about possibly needed to introduce restrictions in winter in the future?

If you link exactly what they did say, I will explain it to you.

thebiglad · 11-03-2021 03:32PM

Boggles wrote: »

In the context of seasonal viruses?

Yes, 2,000 deaths from such a population is still a low % so whether it is summer or winter not relevant - there is a consistent portion of infected who will die, I don't think anyone claims it is zero case in summer season, we could see that from our 2020 numbers

W123-80's · 11-03-2021 03:32PM

Boggles wrote: »

Are we still pretending it's purely seasonal?

Covid-19: Brazil surge reaches new level as daily deaths pass 2,000

Spotted that. That's definitely a concern.
I heard Luke O'Neill on Newstalk this morning saying the vaccines were not as effective against this particular strain. Still effective but less so than other strains.
These variants are gonna be tricky to manage, certainly in the context of opening up international travel.
Hopefully as more vaccines are administered there will be less opportunity for further mutations.

The whole situation is still very much up in the air though.

Riodej1578 · 11-03-2021 03:33PM

JRant wrote: »

I don't know if even that would make any difference. MM is the weakest leader we've had in a long time and is afraid to make a single decision on his own, the very definition of paralysis by analysis.

With MM being so weak, is this the main reason why we are hearing so much from Leo.

He can't help himself going off on solo runs. Boost his ego? Huge difference in the amount we hear from him compared to Simon Coveney when he was Tánaiste.

Monster249 · 11-03-2021 03:35PM

d161 wrote: »

And when will that be? How long would you propose waiting? 6 months, another year??

Because, I believe there will always be boosters required/new mutations requiring a modified vaccine etc. And that ignores the obvious issues we already have in getting and administering 10 million shots of a covid vaccine.

And what then if we get to a stage where the majority of people are vaccinated against Covid. Should we do the same for the flu, i.e. lock down every time there is a virulent strain? Because the flu also overwhelms our hospitals and kills the vulnerable every winter (except this one).

I'm 95% sure this guy is an undercover NPHET agent.

Riodej1578 · 11-03-2021 03:35PM

Allinall wrote: »

I shop in Aldi every week.

Traffic light system in place controlling numbers. People queuing two meters apart.

As a result of limited numbers, very little queuing time at the tills, so shopping takes no longer than normal.

I go every week too, and like cattle marts. No social distancing once people get in the door

Allinall · 11-03-2021 03:38PM

Riodej1578 wrote: »

With MM being so weak, is this the main reason why we are hearing so much from Leo.

He can't help himself going off on solo runs. Boost his ego? Huge difference in the amount we hear from him compared to Simon Coveney when he was Tánaiste.

Leo is Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, which is very much front and centre at the moment.

Simon is Minister for Foreign Affairs, which is somewhat in the background, given the global pandemic. You do hear him quite a bit on brexit.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX Read OP For Mod Warnings