Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX Read OP For Mod Warnings

francogarbanzo · 10-03-2021 11:59AM

Boggles wrote: »

That's the same thing. As those governments hang their hats on capitalism.

But again they didn't do it for the crack! Or to garner likes on Facebook which seems to be the overall thinking among-st an extremely tiny minority cohort who cannot even this far in process the reality of what is happening.

Those governments don't hang their hats on anything. Those governments are made up of individuals who hang their hats on re-election and positive public perception.

AdrianBalboa · 10-03-2021 12:07PM

Deleted User wrote: »

"So you lost your job, so what."

One of the most ignorant contributions I've ever read. And that figure of 4,500 is dwarfed by the tens of thousands more who passed away from cancer and other diseases. Where's the lament for their lives, or are they less in value than Covid-related deaths. You're a disgrace to this site.

The "lament for their lives" comes in the form of me saying that we need to maintain protective measures in order to protect the vulnerable from covid.

Boggles · 10-03-2021 12:09PM

Loved ones can be brought back from conspiracy theories

Decent article in the Examiner yesterday that addresses some of my points.

This process of remixing and reimaging was already well under way before Covid. When the pandemic struck, swathes of the population were suddenly locked inside with nothing to do.

Scared and uncertain about what the future might hold, many went online looking for answers. A menagerie of fascists, trolls, white supremacists and true believers were waiting.

They presented a simple and emotionally satisfying world of goodies and baddies, and flattered adherents by reassuring them that all those who refused to believe were simply sheep. Far-right and white nationalist groups updated their pitch to make it more palatable to modern audiences.

I don't necessarily agree at this stage that conversation will pull a lot of those out of the rabbit hole they have descended into, I think that is more suited to health professionals at this stage.

ypres5 · 10-03-2021 12:09PM

AdrianBalboa wrote: »

The "lament for their lives" comes in the form of me saying that we need to maintain protective measures in order to protect the vulnerable from covid.

and what about when the vulnerable are vaccinated whenever that will be with our glacial pace

Seweryn · 10-03-2021 12:11PM

Boggles wrote: »

12 months in and if you are still judging the pandemic solely on mortality, you probably at this stage won't get it, TBH.

Mortality is a result of illness. A seriously ill person is not going to live as long as if he or she would without the disease. Anyway, if the deadly virus was actually deadly we would observe a surge in deaths last year. That did not happen regardless of the number of "Cov. Deaths" they have been reporting on daily basis.

monkeybutter · 10-03-2021 12:28PM

Seweryn wrote: »

Mortality is a result of illness. A seriously ill person is not going to live as long as if he or she would without the disease. Anyway, if the deadly virus was actually deadly we would observe a surge in deaths last year. That did not happen regardless of the number of "Cov. Deaths" they have been reporting on daily basis.

you do realize the illness wasn't left run its course that's the point of the lockdowns

Seweryn · 10-03-2021 12:33PM

monkeybutter wrote: »

you do realize the illness wasn't left run its course that's the point of the lockdowns

No. Lockdowns may only slow down the spread, but if an illness is to happen it will, sooner or later. If you think the point of lockdowns are to prevent an illness, then we better stay safe at home for ever.

If you want to compare lockdown vs no-lockdown scenario, have a look at Sweden or Japan.

OwenM · 10-03-2021 12:43PM

Seweryn wrote: »

Mortality is a result of illness. A seriously ill person is not going to live as long as if he or she would without the disease. Anyway, if the deadly virus was actually deadly we would observe a surge in deaths last year. That did not happen regardless of the number of "Cov. Deaths" they have been reporting on daily basis.

Well we did observe a surge in deaths last year, in April but then none until January. The website records all cause mortality across the EU and a spike is clearly visible in April. The dip in the graph for the last 2-3 months is because it can take up to 3 months to register a death in Ireland.

The spike in April shows a spike roughly equivalent to 2-3 bad flu seasons. the 2019 and 2020 flu seasons were exceptionally light and it could be argued that over five years there were no excess deaths above that normally caused by flu. So pandemic of the century it certainly isn't, media panic of the decade - yes.

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps#z-scores-by-country

monkeybutter · 10-03-2021 12:47PM

Seweryn wrote: »

No. Lockdowns may only slow down the spread, but if an illness is to happen it will, sooner or later. If you think the point of lockdowns are to prevent an illness, then we better stay safe at home for ever.

If you want to compare lockdown vs no-lockdown scenario, have a look at Sweden or Japan.

thats the same thing if you slow the spread then less people get it, some wont get it at all

you then vaccinate, i presume you don't like vaccinations

compare NZ to Sweden for a proper lockdown vs no lockdown
although each country is going to be slightly different and have advantages or disadvantages so comparing like for like is difficult

plenty of people are working from home and self isolating all over the world whether to to or otherwise just as some people are ignoring lockdown

if you have every been in japan you would know they take masks etc very seriously already

I mean they have 10 times the population of sweden and less deaths and cases

Seweryn · 10-03-2021 12:59PM

OwenM wrote: »

The spike in April shows a spike roughly equivalent to 2-3 bad flu seasons. the 2019 and 2020 flu seasons were exceptionally light and it could be argued that over five years there were no excess deaths above that normally caused by flu. So pandemic of the century it certainly isn't, media panic of the decade - yes.

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps#z-scores-by-country

The spike in April isn't particularly higher than any bad flu season spike. So yes, a massive media panic, a panic of the decade for sure.

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monkeybutter · 10-03-2021 01:02PM

Seweryn wrote: »

The spike in April isn't particularly higher than any bad flu season spike. So yes, a massive media panic, a panic of the decade for sure.

its was in april though, and yes worse than a flu season spike

and we locked down to stop it, unlike say what happens in a flu season

and thats a managed flu season, with vaccines

Hector Savage · 10-03-2021 01:03PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I’m trying to follow the logic here.

Most deaths from each year occur above life expectancy with serious underlying illness, most deaths from Covid are from the same demographic

So if a Covid death is preventable, isn’t every death??

Or will a particular cohort of virtue signallers be ok when a different cause is on a death cert in future?

Exactly death is ok, so long as it's not a COVID death, Covid deaths are scary scary as the high priests of NPHET have declared them so.

ypres5 · 10-03-2021 01:08PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

To be honest even if he was I don't feel comfortable with an employee of the state earning that amount. Especially in an organisation as mismanaged as the HSE. Someone in that position should be well paid, but over 400k is ridiculous.

i do think it's time a serious conversation was had in regard to the very generous pay being given out to senior government and departmental officials. td pay has just gone over 100k. not to sound begrudging but i think it's time for the days of the gravy train to come to an end especially considering the state of the public purse

monkeybutter · 10-03-2021 01:42PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I’m trying to follow the logic here.

Most deaths from each year occur above life expectancy with serious underlying illness, most deaths from Covid are from the same demographic

So if a Covid death is preventable, isn’t every death??

Or will a particular cohort of virtue signallers be ok when a different cause is on a death cert in future?

not all covid deaths are preventable

not all diseases have a cure

the joy is that some are

what are you trying to say

FintanMcluskey · 10-03-2021 01:55PM

monkeybutter wrote: »

not all covid deaths are preventable

not all diseases have a cure

the joy is that some are

what are you trying to say

How many deaths aren’t preventable?

You must be able to quantify?

The OP I responded to said 4500 were dead due to Covid, while making the point that anyone concerned about the economic devastation facing themselves and their children, after losing their livelihoods and jobs should look upon themselves with shame for having such a trivial concern

UsBus · 10-03-2021 01:55PM

So my post gets deleted because I pointed out the irony that Darragh O'Brien feels free to travel around the country, even though he drafted the most poorly thought out eviction legislation which has the 5k law kept over us all.
What an embarrassment of a country we have turned into. The emigration option will be seriously explored by many once we can move about again.

monkeybutter · 10-03-2021 02:07PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

How many deaths aren’t preventable?

You must be able to quantify?

The OP I responded to said 4500 were dead due to Covid, while making the point that anyone concerned about the economic devastation facing themselves and their children, after losing their livelihoods and jobs should look upon themselves with shame for having such a trivial concern

everyone dies, it just a case of when

4500 people are dead related to covid after a ockdown to prevent many more

thebiglad · 10-03-2021 02:15PM

monkeybutter wrote: »

everyone dies, it just a case of when

4500 people are dead related to covid after a ockdown to prevent many more

4,500 people died with Covid not necessarily caused by Covid.

Seweryn · 10-03-2021 02:30PM

monkeybutter wrote: »

everyone dies, it just a case of when

4500 people are dead related to covid after a ockdown to prevent many more

These are only Cov. related / recorded deaths. If you want you can read that 10k people had Cov. related deaths in the country. We do not test everyone for Cov. (regardless of the test being or not suitable for it), so how do you know that all the other deaths are not Cov. related deaths? And as we have no major _excess_ deaths does it even matter?

monkeybutter · 10-03-2021 02:34PM

Seweryn wrote: »

These are only Cov. related / recorded deaths. If you want you can read that 10k people had Cov. related deaths in the country. We do not test everyone for Cov. (regardless of the test being or not suitable for it), so how do you know that all the other deaths are not Cov. related deaths? And as we have no major _excess_ deaths does it even matter?

there are excess deaths

that's with a lockdown

there is no getting away from it

they aren't trying to inflate the figures on this

Seweryn · 10-03-2021 02:37PM

monkeybutter wrote: »

there are excess deaths

that's with a lockdown

there is no getting away from it

they aren't trying to inflate the figures on this

So, could you show us in the statistics where all the excess deaths are?

Natterjack from Kerry · 10-03-2021 02:38PM

Positive news from Varadkar for cyclists and long distance runners there, that the 5km limit should go from April 5th. No relaxations for the wider population.

monkeybutter · 10-03-2021 02:39PM

thebiglad wrote: »

4,500 people died with Covid not necessarily caused by Covid.

many people who die from the flu do so from picking up a secondary infection

people who contract Aids/HIV are killed because of a weakened immune system, but technically killed by something else

but what really killed them

Monster249 · 10-03-2021 02:46PM

monkeybutter wrote: »

many people who die from the flu do so from picking up a secondary infection

people who contract Aids/HIV are killed because of a weakened immune system, but technically killed by something else

but what really killed them

You can't prevent every death and if the government actively tried to do so the way they are trying to with Covid, Ireland would be like an episode of black mirror.

Smoking and alcohol cause deaths, why haven't we banned them?

Driving cars causes deaths, why haven't we banned them?

Being obese causes deaths, why haven't we banned refined, nutrient sparse foods?

Do you see where I'm going? The only difference with Covid is it's multiplicative and that's why there's restrictions but they've gone overboard now because they're spineless and weak.

Terence Rattigan · 10-03-2021 02:46PM

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

Positive news from Varadkar for cyclists and long distance runners there, that the 5km limit should go from April 5th. No relaxations for the wider population.

Bike sales will go through the roof.

monkeybutter · 10-03-2021 02:50PM

Seweryn wrote: »

So, could you show us in the statistics where all the excess deaths are?

you do seem to have plenty of time on your hands so could give the CSO some help compiling the stats for this year

in the UK it was around 100k

the US close to 300k

need i go on

Seweryn · 10-03-2021 02:55PM

monkeybutter wrote: »

you do seem to have plenty of time on your hands so could give the CSO some help compiling the stats for this year

I am sure they are well capable of this simple task without me helping them.

monkeybutter wrote: »

in the UK it was around 100k

the US close to 300k

need i go on

Well, we are talking about Ireland and, importantly - excess deaths.

monkeybutter · 10-03-2021 02:58PM

Monster249 wrote: »

You can't prevent every death and if the government actively tried to do so the way they are trying to with Covid, Ireland would be like an episode of black mirror.

Smoking and alcohol cause deaths, why haven't we banned them?

Driving cars causes deaths, why haven't we banned them?

Being obese causes deaths, why haven't we banned refined, nutrient sparse foods?

Do you see where I'm going? The only difference with Covid is it's multiplicative and that's why there's restrictions but they've gone overboard now because they're spineless and weak.

they aren't trying to prevent every death though

they are just trying to stop too many

cigarettes have been priced so high only a fool would buy them, next stop is banning them

you have my permission to kill yourself by drinking or eating yourself to death

but you shouldn't be allowed to kill someone else with it, thus the smoking ban

thus the driving test, speed limits, seat belts

all restrictions in place to reduce the carnage you had before

and by jaysus they work quite well if you look at the stats of numbers of people who die on the roads

look i turned you argument around

monkeybutter · 10-03-2021 03:00PM

Seweryn wrote: »

I am sure they are well capable of this simple task without me helping them.

Well, we are talking about Ireland and, importantly - excess deaths.

SOOOOO wait are you saying because of lockdown there are no excess deaths in ireland

in fact we saved even more lives because of it

less people driving less road deaths

no flu season

you know the CSO is glacial so you will have to wait untill the summer get the actual stats

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1102/1175417-excess-mortality-rate/

that from nov, you really need to go march to march

Boggles · 10-03-2021 03:01PM

Monster249 wrote: »

You can't prevent every death and if the government actively tried to do so the way they are trying to with Covid, Ireland would be like an episode of black mirror.

Smoking and alcohol cause deaths, why haven't we banned them?

Driving cars causes deaths, why haven't we banned them?

Being obese causes deaths, why haven't we banned refined, nutrient sparse foods?

Do you see where I'm going? The only difference with Covid is it's multiplicative and that's why there's restrictions but they've gone overboard now because they're spineless and weak.

The only difference?

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX Read OP For Mod Warnings