Beef price tracker 2

Anto_Meath · 09-03-2021 11:48AM

Continental cow they are killed out on average 386 KGs R & U grade (but the price was flat) 6 of them, 3 different agents looking for them, but went with the local lad small abattoir kills about 100 cattle a day, but they took the bullocks the same day so was handier for transport.

Anto_Meath · 09-03-2021 12:13PM

They kill 3 - 4 days a week depending. They seem to have a market for cows as this is what they kill most.
Their man would be one of the main men in the marts around here buying cow, he would buy most of the fit continental cows in the mart.

Bass Reeves · 09-03-2021 12:32PM

Supermarkets and processor's are colluding to discount prime Irish Steer and heifer beef. Cow beef would be used in fast food outlets for burgers, with n catering to provide beef for dinners in Hospitals and schools etc

Demand is there but we are getting screwed.

Anto_Meath · 09-03-2021 01:04PM

There was 2 good LM cows that graded U and there was a young CH cow under 40 months, I might have got a bit more for them in the mart but not much. There was 1 black sim cow (2009) off a Fr, I though she would be an O (graded an R but I would say it was close) came into almost €1,500 and I would have gotten a lot less for her in the mart as she wasn't much to look at, similar for a big horse of a black Limo and a hard enough 2010 CH cow, so over all I am happy enough and I am probably €300 - €400 better off. For the 7 bullocks I would say I more or less got what I would get in the mart as they were dairy bred FR, BWH and AA that were bought last August and heading for 36 months, in fairness to them the turned a few Euro as they done a good thrive from August to November and I had excellent silage so they put on a nice cover over the winter with just 3kgs / head of meal for 90 days. One with the other other the grossed €463 each for the 6 months, just need to add up my costs now..

Cavanjack · 09-03-2021 06:06PM

DukeCaboom wrote: »

Any talk of weights or age for bulls with that?

No word of weight limits on any stock these days.

DukeCaboom · 09-03-2021 06:16PM

Cavanjack wrote: »

No word of weight limits on any stock these days.

Lucky yee!

Anto_Meath · 09-03-2021 07:46PM

The only place I hear on about weights is Donegal, they are giving 10c as part of some suppliers group but cut you over they are 380 kg.

memorystick · 10-03-2021 11:26AM

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/report-shows-that-farmers-receive-80-of-revenue-from-beef-sales-mii/

More scutter

DBK1 · 10-03-2021 12:32PM

memorystick wrote: »

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/report-shows-that-farmers-receive-80-of-revenue-from-beef-sales-mii/

More scutter

That may well be the case but they are conveniently leaving out the retailers cut. How much does that account for?

The article states that the farmer gets 80% of the revenue generated by the processors, so obviously the other 20% is for the processor. Seems like a reasonable enough divide if true.

But what then is the retailers mark up considering they have the least labour and time consuming role in the whole setup from farm to checkout till?

charolais0153 · 10-03-2021 01:08PM

Jjameson wrote: »

The 2 euro out of every 10 didn’t add up at the time and it it had reps at the negotiating table on wobbly 1 legged stools when it got to it!

3.45 + 12cent was €3.58a kg. Taking a r grade carcass boned out 66%. Brought the meat to €5.42 a kg. Average all cuts @ €12 at Irish retail?
The 5th quarter Pandora’s box value?

Can anyone find a link to the actual report?

What's the average price where the majority of the meat goes , i.e not Ireland

wrangler · 10-03-2021 01:24PM

Jjameson wrote: »

The 2 euro out of every 10 didn’t add up at the time and it it had reps at the negotiating table on wobbly 1 legged stools when it got to it!

3.45 + 12cent was €3.58a kg. Taking a r grade carcass boned out 66%. Brought the meat to €5.42 a kg. Average all cuts @ €12 at Irish retail?
The 5th quarter Pandora’s box value?

Can anyone find a link to the actual report?

Shops get a huge mark up on every thing or they won't sell it

Bass Reeves · 10-03-2021 03:30PM

memorystick wrote: »

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/report-shows-that-farmers-receive-80-of-revenue-from-beef-sales-mii/

More scutter

Ya it was reported before this came out that processor's were only giving limited transparency, citing market sensitive information. They only released information that suited them.

Processor's were claiming we were getting over 50% of the final retail price back at the time of the strike. GT did no figures on this just an attempt to cover up the processor's operations.

20% of the the final price would be 25% of beef prices so they are getting 300/head and n the average 1200 euro animal. On a slaughter of 2 million cattle that is 600 million euro. Probably 5th quarter was retailed at to it one buyer and not factored into the processor margin.

According to this a few days ago

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/beef-transparency-reports-crawl-towards-completion-607662

Processor's gave limited transparency
As well only one retailer had an issue with U16 month bull beef.

Beef farmers have to stop chasing numbers. It's virtually interesting that I saw a statement from an ICSA rep that over the last few years Teagasc spend too much time looking at Technical efficiency with no looking at profitability.Thisbgoes back to what I said on another thread about meal feeding and for a lot of it there is no margin is n it for the farmer

Bass Reeves · 10-03-2021 03:59PM

Jjameson wrote: »

The 2€ out of 10€ was a long way off though.
I think they honestly forgot to bone it out!
I was standing elbows on a bale pointing this anomaly out at the gate of slaney one evening and I was told I was wrong. But one man said “ if your right we are at nothing here”!

Ya I did the figures and I think I had it at about 35%. Of final retail price we were getting. It a bit like your own accounts you have to.know how to read them

Bass Reeves · 10-03-2021 04:54PM

Jjameson wrote: »

That looks low even. €3.57 all in. A fair r grade carcass bones out 66 to 68%. Higher fat score bone out better but a higher percentage of trim. So take 3.57 divide by say 66x 100% is 5.40€.
(Allow bone and trim to be worth nothing)
It was getting close to half.
Cormac Healy claimed on radio one that we get two thirds of Irish retail price which was an outrageous lie but there was no solid work put in to give a farm rep a basis to correct him.

Cannot remember offhand. But two years ago cattle grading was a lot harder

wrangler · 10-03-2021 04:55PM

Jjameson wrote: »

That looks low even. €3.57 all in. A fair r grade carcass bones out 66 to 68%. Higher fat score bone out better but a higher percentage of trim. So take 3.57 divide by say 66x 100% is 5.40€.
(Allow bone and trim to be worth nothing)
It was getting close to half.
Cormac Healy claimed on radio one that we get two thirds of Irish retail price which was an outrageous lie but there was no solid work put in to give a farm rep a basis to correct him.

It's not a lie if he was quoting Grant Thorntons report.
He's got great support from Grant Thorntons figures now, we'll be hearing those now for a long time to come.

wrangler · 10-03-2021 05:06PM

Jjameson wrote: »

That was in 2019.

But support from grant Thornton’s isn’t really there if they are saying they were stonewalled and are mere merely relaying what MII told them?

They should've known it'd be a waste of time, begrudgers were happy enough to criticise IFA and jim Power for not being able to do it and now they've come up with the same result.
To be fooled twice is utter stupidity

wrangler · 10-03-2021 05:32PM

Jjameson wrote: »

You are ranting with your peculiar narrative.
same result yes because of a lack of investigative powers by both. Unfortunately we had to pay power for to tell us nothing we didn’t know though!

And I said to plenty that that's the way it'd finish.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was illegal to think of investigating a business like that

Bass Reeves · 10-03-2021 05:42PM

Jjameson wrote: »

Let’s assume grant Thornton have been told the truth.
A €1300 heifer @ 260€ Gross to processor.
Including 5th quarter?
Thoughts?

Processor's say they are getting 20% of the price to retail not 20% of the carcasse value. On a 1300euro heifer he are getting 325 euro to put that carcasse through processing. Now I used to butcher heifers for the freezer and it was 220 was the charge admittedly 4-5 years ago and a smaller carcass. However you have to look at economy of scale.A small butcher might be lucky to handle 3-4 carcasses a week.

We are heading for a 2 million per year slaughter within 2-3 years. Assuming an average carcasse value of 1200 that 600 million that processor's will be there take out of the system that they admit to. Add in that the 5th quarter is controlled by one player in who may add another 100-150million euro to his gross

Water John · 10-03-2021 07:48PM

Doesn't matter to the farmer the divvy between the processor and the retailer. Down fall down that rabbit hole.
Do we look at the BB heifer again:
BB Heifer

fillet.............5kg
sirloin........14.2kg
rump.........12.6kg
fore rib......15.3kg
brisket.......17.9kg
chuck........32.5kg
topside......22.2kg
silverside..30.9kg
braising......8.9kg
stewing.....20.8kg
mince........51.7kg
...............232kg

Priced out the farmer gets just over €5/kg. Anyone want to price the cuts?

Water John · 10-03-2021 08:18PM

So GT admit they couldn't do the job:
https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/grant-thornton-hits-obstacles-in-determining-beef-market-value/

MII ran out early and sold the media another porkie.

Bass Reeves · 10-03-2021 08:46PM

Jjameson wrote: »

Define “price to retail”?
taking 1300 of the example as 80% of it correct!
Duh me!
Butchers work roughly on the basis of 1€ kg deadweight for freezer or box sale beef. But have to deliver and pay to dispose of offal that large processors actually profit on.

But these are all gross figures of course.

This is the price that the processor's are admitting to receiving from retail( supermarkets restaurants catering etc).

1300 is 80% of the price received according MII
That 80% of the price of processor's recieve so the other 20% is 25% of that or 325 euro.

When you add in scale and s large portion is sold in bulk or the amount that is machine processed such as the McDonald's contract for burgers. As well you have off book sales. We for instance some processor's have UK companies that take the beef and retail it. I imagine that these deal with specialist contracts such as to meat going into Hospital, Schools or prisons.

But just taking the raw figure's did we have an average kill of 34k/weeks last year???. That 1.768 million cattle. Assuming an average of 1200 accross heifers, bulls bullocks, cows etc I think that would be a low ball figure. At 300/ head that is 540 million euro.

And that is what they are willing to admit to.

Danzy · 10-03-2021 09:42PM

wrangler wrote: »

They should've known it'd be a waste of time, begrudgers were happy enough to criticise IFA and jim Power for not being able to do it and now they've come up with the same result.
To be fooled twice is utter stupidity

It's not all about the IFA.

Bass Reeves · 10-03-2021 09:50PM

Danzy wrote: »

It's not all about the IFA.

But sure we alway have to get back to that and about begrudgery

kk.man · 10-03-2021 09:57PM

Danzy wrote: »

It's not all about the IFA.

Correct. Any decent analysis or analytical firm would never produce figures that are screwed because of poor data. If their reports were scrutinised after they would never be employed again. That's why Jim Power and Grant T can't come to the conclusions we are asking of them.

The real cloak and dagger stuff that does the Mll no good is the uniformity of price across the 26 counties of Ireland for so many different factories and like we had a few weeks back the uniform collapse of same. I am no Einstein but something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

lalababa · 10-03-2021 11:02PM

Water John wrote: »

Doesn't matter to the farmer the divvy between the processor and the retailer. Down fall down that rabbit hole.
Do we look at the BB heifer again:
BB Heifer

fillet.............5kg
sirloin........14.2kg
rump.........12.6kg
fore rib......15.3kg
brisket.......17.9kg
chuck........32.5kg
topside......22.2kg
silverside..30.9kg
braising......8.9kg
stewing.....20.8kg
mince........51.7kg
...............232kg

Priced out the farmer gets just over €5/kg. Anyone want to price the cuts?

Really need a butcher to price the cuts,
Fillet......30
Sirloin....15
Rump.....10?
Fore rib...25?
Brisket....20?
Chuck.....18?
Topside..20?
Silverside...10
Braising.....10
Stewing.....10
Mince.......7
Total circa...3200??
....13.70/kg

Good loser · 10-03-2021 11:41PM

kk.man wrote: »

Correct. Any decent analysis or analytical firm would never produce figures that are screwed because of poor data. If their reports were scrutinised after they would never be employed again. That's why Jim Power and Grant T can't come to the conclusions we are asking of them.

The real cloak and dagger stuff that does the Mll no good is the uniformity of price across the 26 counties of Ireland for so many different factories and like we had a few weeks back the uniform collapse of same. I am no Einstein but something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

On and on ad infinitum the conspiracy theories multiply and feed one another.
Remember the one about Simon Coveney being married to Goodman's niece and hence the Govt was in cahoots with the factory owners. Such rubbish!
When that's debunked there are plenty more to replenish the stock.
Conspiracy theories are the signs of weak minds - consider Mr Trump and 40 million Americans.
Or consider our very own sheep industry. 6 factories quoted in the IFJ including the big 2 (or 3) in the beef game. Last weeks price increased by another 20c to 30c per kg on the previous week to record highs of €7 per kg.
How do the theorists explain these numbers?
Did the factories conspire (all together) to increase prices to record levels? To give more money to their suppliers - because they needed it, because they deserved it, because they liked them that bit more.

Boys and girls morality doesn't come into it.
But market forces do.

lalababa · 10-03-2021 11:46PM

Why are mutton prices going through the roof? Is it Brexit? Yet beef is still at or below cost of production.
??

White Clover · 10-03-2021 11:53PM

Good loser wrote: »

On and on ad infinitum the conspiracy theories multiply and feed one another.
Remember the one about Simon Coveney being married to Goodman's niece and hence the Govt was in cahoots with the factory owners. Such rubbish!
When that's debunked there are plenty more to replenish the stock.
Conspiracy theories are the signs of weak minds - consider Mr Trump and 40 million Americans.
Or consider our very own sheep industry. 6 factories quoted in the IFJ including the big 2 (or 3) in the beef game. Last weeks price increased by another 20c to 30c per kg on the previous week to record highs of €7 per kg.
How do the theorists explain these numbers?
Did the factories conspire (all together) to increase prices to record levels? To give more money to their suppliers - because they needed it, because they deserved it, because they liked them that bit more.

Boys and girls morality doesn't come into it.
But market forces do.

The factories don't have feedlots of lambs themselves, yet. What it tells is how they have used British lamb to beat down prices in years gone by. They can't get them this year, did you notice that?
A bit like the way if they were short 20 cattle for tomorrow's kill, they'd cancel my 10 cattle with the poor mouth of no demand and offer 5c less for next week, and then land on a double of 30 from one of their own feedlots.

kk.man · 10-03-2021 11:58PM

Good loser wrote: »

On and on ad infinitum the conspiracy theories multiply and feed one another.
Remember the one about Simon Coveney being married to Goodman's niece and hence the Govt was in cahoots with the factory owners. Such rubbish!
When that's debunked there are plenty more to replenish the stock.
Conspiracy theories are the signs of weak minds - consider Mr Trump and 40 million Americans.
Or consider our very own sheep industry. 6 factories quoted in the IFJ including the big 2 (or 3) in the beef game. Last weeks price increased by another 20c to 30c per kg on the previous week to record highs of €7 per kg.
How do the theorists explain these numbers?
Did the factories conspire (all together) to increase prices to record levels? To give more money to their suppliers - because they needed it, because they deserved it, because they liked them that bit more.

Boys and girls morality doesn't come into it.
But market forces do.

I never bought into the Simon Coveney allegation and even if it was true I doubt it was having any bearing on the beef price. I also don't do Trump or any nacarist for that matter.

Market forces do out weigh the processors when there is a market force ie demand is very strong. We are a small country at the edge of the EU with 5 mil ppl killing 5 mill cattle at the mercy of export markets. These cattle kills are controled by 3 big processors and the price they pay for cattle is uniform among themselves and there smaller competitors bar 5c here or there. Sheep are very scarse all over Europe no aussies or kiwis fighting for shelf space. No imports from the UK to our factories because of a little issue called Brexit.

In conclusion we are producing too much cattle but our main markets we supply are paying way more to their domestic suppliers than us. Two hundred euro is very wrong. If that was to translate to shelf price the domestic product would be displaced within days and the farmer suppliers would see a collapse in price.

That's not conspiracy theory, it's fact.

White Clover · 11-03-2021 12:06AM

lalababa wrote: »

Why are mutton prices going through the roof? Is it Brexit? Yet beef is still at or below cost of production.
??

At this point in time, the factories don't control the supply of lamb. They don't have feedlots and the loss of British lamb is forcing them to pay. Its the market working, ie supply and demand.

With beef, the factories have control of supply through their own feedlots and contracted farmers that they have bankrupted previously are feeding for them for a wage. It is market control and manipulation.

Beef price tracker 2

Comments