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Why'd you have to go and make things so complicated?
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All I really took from the opening post was not to let "paralysis by analysis" have a negative effect on your running. I've read the posters log from start to finish, and a few times he was asked about a certain aspect of a session or a run, his reply was always the same, he didn't know or particularly care about the details, he was just following a plan from a book and it was working, that was the important thing.
I think beginner runners, or beginners at anything, are at their most vulnerable (in terms of giving up out of frustration) when they are getting to grips with all the different metrics and data that are now available. Everyone has a smart watch now and the amount of data it attempts to give you is unreal. Some of it useful, some of it not. As an example, Garmin attempts to give you a Vo2 max score, and I think most people would agree that this is unlikely to be accurate. So if somebody sees their vo2 max score on the app go down, they might think they are doing something wrong and go changing their training, when it's not necessary.
Some people love all the different data available, nothing wrong with that but sometimes it can become a hinderance. Everybody wants to improve, we all want to know what the nest way to improve is. From what I know about running (very little) the biggest gains are made by increasing volume sustainably. We are all amateur athletes, we only have so much time and energy we can put into the sport. I took zicos point to be, the most efficient use of that time and energy is actually running, rather than getting too bogged down in the details.0 -
I wanted to fully digest the OP's original post before commenting, as my first reaction was that some of us were been told to climb back in our boxes.
Had a quick scan back through my own posts here, and my first one was over 12 years ago as a complete and utter novice (I might now be a beginner) runner. I was a long time lurker as there was always some very good honest advice, I learned loads from the first time marathon threads. Skip forward years to my next post, but it wasn't until the last few years that I felt confident enough to post regularly, hell it was only last year I felt justified in posted that I had completed a 1000 miles in 2019.
I have always tried to impart some 'wisdom' gained from my experience, but I do wish I had known a bit more when I began. I am still picking up tips here and else where (I particularly like the Running Channel on youtube) and I really think people just want to be the best runner/jogger/parkrunner they can be.
I'm disappointing to think that some people here think that I and other recreational runners should, well,.... be content. I have tried to temper my posts with the caveat that people first off should enjoy running and when I offer my tuppence worth that hopefully someone with more experience will be along soon with some better advice. I personally want to get quicker times and beat my PB's and sometimes us novices may ask about cadence or breathing in the hopes of gaining those few sec/mins.
The great thing about Boards for me, was always that community spirit, hell I asked a question over in the gardening forum knowing that a fellow board member would get back to me. I have got some cracking deals on the bargains forum, sure my Garmin watch is as a result of boards.
I don't think the OP was meant to be condescending but unfortunatly for me I'm going to become a lurker again, as the honesty I tried to use in my replies would now be tempered with the thought that it may cause eyes to roll when read.
You are better off not lurking. You need to interact to learn. The great thing about that is that you can learn from others mistakes and successes.
I used to run a lot and forgot my progress and the different stages I went through. I had an absolute view of things, so for example, I couldnt understand some folk who collected medals. I stopped running for a few years put on 4 stone and then I understood. Each medal represents an achievement and each a beautiful memory.
The essence of good communication (a major component of coaching/teaching) is the speak the language of the person who is learning.
There is potentially marvellous tools and knowledge to help the learning runner now compared to when I started. More experienced runners can help someone less experienced by showing which information is solid and which is less so. There is massive resources to help coaches also.
But you need to ask. If someone is going to judge you, pass them over, ignore, ask someone else.0 -
I think this proves what a loss not having a DCM mentored novices group was this year. Lots of beginner runners haven't been given the right introduction to structured running in Boards, where they learn from slightly more experienced runners and not "experts". It's probably the reason why there aren't many new threads from beginners (apart from a few that come to my mind). It really helped me being in the DCM novices group in 2019 - eased me into being part of the forum.0
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I dont know him but having followed Zico's posts over the years, I wouldn't interpret anything negative into what he writes. For years he has been very selfless in terms of insights offered into his own training and has been a fountain of knowledge for both running and triathlon. If anything, when a 2.2X marathon runner gives advice, I would listen and take what you can from it.0
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Speaking from my own view on things, I really believe I would never have started a log without 1st being part of the DCM novice group. As an inexperienced runner I stupidly thought sure I already know how to run, put one foot in front of the other what else is there? I was running every run fast, hadn't a clue about easy runs or sessions, just go out & see if maybe I can beat the time I ran the day before. Following a structured plan(the boards marathon plan) was the best thing I did. I had questions & they were answered. I couldn't get my head around running slower, took a good while to do it correctly or for it to sink in. Even now running over 2 years I have questions but they get answered & as someone else said people generally ask on your log if they have a query with your training. The plans we all follow are because we like the look of them, because they have been proven to work, because we want to try something different. I agree 100% that consistency is key then after that I think it's down to personal choice, what works for you!
Like others I am lucky because my plan is done for me & this works really well for me, but at all times I have put in the consistent hours week after week. I think things can be complicated but I also believe they don't have to be & what's complicated for one person may be less complicated for another.0 -
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Isn't it a pity that you wouldn't put your effort into actually going to the newer logs and acknowledging and interacting with runners there instead of backing each other up. Your responses are no better than Zicos post IMO. You all have plenty to say and just love impressing each other and patting each other on the back.
I'm out of here but before I go I'd like to offer some honest from the heart opinion of my experience here. Not just to you three but to others too.
1, I don't even know where Zico got the idea that the people from the logs section even give any advice to newbies starting logs. Most of them don't even acknowledge someone unless their times are impressive.
2, Have a look in the logs section, there is nobody logging who is a genuine beginner. There's a reason for that.
3, You get these little speeches on some of the pages saying how great it is to see so many logging. Yet they don't go to those new logs and acknowledge their existence or welcome them to boards. Some might say they shouldn't have to but this is the type of set-up where literally if you read around the logs, it is just people who seem to know each other chatting to people they know. You actually should make some effort to welcome newbies instead of preaching on your page to ''look'' like a nice person.
4, I have the same one or two people who are kind enough to acknowledging my running. Absolutely no interaction or interest whatsoever.
5, Then they wonder why there's hardly anyone starting logs.
6, You have little passive aggressive acknowledgements to each other and thats about the height of it..
7, Its a toxic environment.
It's sad to see someone who just started logging recently leave because they found this forum to be a toxic environment but I can relate to what is said above. I'm guilty myself of not contributing a lot apart from my own log and a bit of advice on the odd thread where I think I have a bit of experience. I do definitely feels like there is a community here but it can sometimes feel like a clique. I guess you can't be part of a community if you are not contributing.
I personally don't see an issue with asking specific questions on training, HR, cadence, form or whatever, beginner or not. At worst I always find those discussions interesting and while I agree for most runners here simpler is better I'm always curious about more complex methods.0 -
It's sad to see someone who just started logging recently leave because they found this forum to be a toxic environment but I can relate to what is said above. I'm guilty myself of not contributing a lot apart from my own log and a bit of advice on the odd thread where I think I have a bit of experience. I do definitely feels like there is a community here but it can sometimes feel like a clique. I guess you can't be part of a community if you are not contributing.
I personally don't see an issue with asking specific questions on training, HR, cadence, form or whatever, beginner or not. At worst I always find those discussions interesting and while I agree for most runners here simpler is better I'm always curious about more complex methods.
At times I have felt that the forum has been cliquey however I have put that down to it being Dublin centric and a core group of posters who have contributed a lot to the forum over a number of years who have developed a friendship. However any time I’ve posted a question posters have responded and given good advice. I enjoy reading a few logs - it was The Bitter Lemons log of running in far off lands that got me interested in the logs in the first place.😀 I tend not to contribute to the logs as I don’t have
much to say re training etc. I do however respond to threads. I enjoy reading / learning about running as much as actually running - hence why I ask questions. My motto is each to their own.
ETA - a number of TT were run over the lockdowns which were very welcoming to everyone. To clarify cliquey in the sense that posters seemed to know each other very well and have a few inside jokes / banter.0 -
It can't be helped that a large number of runners, users, logs are Dublin Centric. If anyone were running the Clontarf strand or St Anne's you'd likely bump into many. I used to travel up there for work and it's a lovely stretch to run. Likewise across town the PP would have many boardsies passing each other. Again working up there I would have made my way to the Park for a run. It really is a cool spot for it.
I've been around boards and logs since Krusty was a newbie with a 10k log. It was the same then. Smaller community and we got to know each other, mainly through logs. Maybe it wasn't as intimidating to start as we didn't have much of clue and there were few speedsters then.. Krusty included!
Someone made a good point about topics popping up in a cycle of new users. You might have answered the same question in detail before and less likely to do so again. There are some great threads and great logs. People come and go.
Another good point was that you need to engage to be having the craic. I'm not in Dublin, neither are many of the vocal users.
I think its cool that folk are from all parts. Ideally we would all be in the same club.. although I still wear my Ill fitting Boards AC tee. It was a thing once....0 -
I agree the running forum can be very cliquey and sometimes it feels like your opinion isn’t even been listened too.
I’ve seen it on some threads where someone could give good advice and get no ‘thanks’ for it and a few pages later a regular could give the same advice (or not as good advice)and get several ‘thanks’ and pats on the back.
It might seem like a small thing but for me it’s a bit off putting as it feels like your posts are just being passed over or ignored.
I get that people know each other in real life also but I also find it a bit off putting when users call each other by the first initial of their real life name. Just makes the place even more cliquey IMO.
Anyway I suppose I’m taking it all a bit too serious, it is only an Internet forum after all. It’s just when I read some of the posts above I was sort of glad in a way that I wasn’t the only one who felt like that.0 -
shotgunmcos wrote: »It can't be helped that a large number of runners, users, logs are Dublin Centric. If anyone were running the Clontarf strand or St Anne's you'd likely bump into many. I used to travel up there for work and it's a lovely stretch to run. Likewise across town the PP would have many boardsies passing each other. Again working up there I would have made my way to the Park for a run. It really is a cool spot for it.
I've been around boards and logs since Krusty was a newbie with a 10k log. It was the same then. Smaller community and we got to know each other, mainly through logs. Maybe it wasn't as intimidating to start as we didn't have much of clue and there were few speedsters then.. Krusty included!
Someone made a good point about topics popping up in a cycle of new users. You might have answered the same question in detail before and less likely to do so again. There are some great threads and great logs. People come and go.
Another good point was that you need to engage to be having the craic. I'm not in Dublin, neither are many of the vocal users.
I think its cool that folk are from all parts. Ideally we would all be in the same club.. although I still wear my Ill fitting Boards AC tee. It was a thing once....
That was my point really - I don’t think it’s cliquey per say more that there are a core group of posters over a number of years who know each other fairly well and it’s not surprising that the forum is / can seem to be Dublin centric. It seems the OP did not intend for the thread to be construed the way it was - that’s fair enough. As a newbie I do think referencing a particular log in the manner it was , was bad form - either say it on the log in question or a more general keep it simple stupid may have been more appropriate and could have possibly avoided the thread taking the direction it did. But I’ve no doubt many will disagree with that - that’s the nature of online forums.
I get it can be frustrating to answer the same type of questions over and over again but the beauty of the forum is that no one is obliged to answer. At the end if the day if you want to ask a question then ask if you don’t want to answer a question then skip on to a more interesting topic.0 -
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Is it not a little unfair to state a group of posters who have built up a rapport over many years as a “clique”?
There’s this image that there’s a closed shop for the so called “cool club” within the place which is completely false. Turn the whole thing around, how many new posters bother going into established logs and asks questions?
That’s how I learned, I asked the most ridiculous questions to the likes of meno, Krusty, digger, claralara etc starting out, I didn’t always get an answer but more often than not I did.
I didn’t expect the red carpet to be rolled out for me because I opened a log and was a new poster.0 -
OOnegative wrote: »Is it not a little unfair to state a group of posters who have built up a rapport over many years as a “clique”?
There’s this image that there’s a closed shop for the so called “cool club” within the place which is completely false. Turn the whole thing around, how many new posters bother going into established logs and asks questions?
That’s how I learned, I asked the most ridiculous questions to the likes of meno, Krusty, digger, claralara etc starting out, I didn’t always get an answer but more often than not I did.
I didn’t expect the red carpet to be rolled out for me because I opened a log and was a new poster.
Yes it is - hence why I tried to explain ( perhaps badly) why though it may feel cliquey at times - I don’t think it’s meant. I’ve had several basic questions answered and some very informative and interesting answers.
Not sure where the red carpet idea is coming from - this entire thread stemmed from a long term poster questioning ( op actually said discuss ) the need for newbie runners to concern themselves with heart rate , nutrition , cadence etc - easy for that to be construed as don’t ask questions. Particularly the way the whole post was structured. My own view is if I want to ask a question on heart rate nutrition cadence etc ( I’ve asked questions on all 3 ) then I will if people answer they answer if they don’t they don’t.0 -
For what it's worth, I don't think the poster who left needed any intervention on her log - she seemed to be doing just fine, running wise.
And another thing is, a lot of us DO actually know each other in real life. It's a real world sport, and in a small country a lot of "us" end up doing the same races, and chatting over cups of tea and egg sandwiches. Maybe even over a few pints afterwards. Once you know someone in real life, it's feels more appropriate to address them by their real names or initials - maybe it looks a bit cliquey from the outside alright, but it also feels (to me) like good manners to adopt a more personal tone when you know someone, or at least have interacted with them regularly and you know each other's names (e.g. from strava etc).
With no racing, it's a pity that newer posters haven't had this opportunity to meet up and widen the circle. They'd soon see that it's a pretty inclusive bunch of people. I still get embarrassed thinking of the time I doorstepped Krusty on the way to his dinner at Charleville after the race, awkwardly introducing myself as someone from the internet. He had no idea who this eejit was, but was a perfect gentleman. But I've made a good few genuine friends on here, and am grateful to have had the opportunity.
I genuinely don't see how this translates to a 'toxic environment'.0 -
lulublue22 wrote: »Yes it is - hence why I tried to explain ( perhaps badly) why though it may feel cliquey at times - I don’t think it’s meant. I’ve had several basic questions answered and some very informative and interesting answers.
Not sure where the red carpet idea is coming from - this entire thread stemmed from a long term poster questioning ( op actually said discuss ) the need for newbie runners to concern themselves with heart rate , nutrition , cadence etc - easy for that to be construed as don’t ask questions. Particularly the way the whole post was structured. My own view is if I want to ask a question on heart rate nutrition cadence etc ( I’ve asked questions on all 3 ) then I will if people answer they answer if they don’t they don’t.
My post wasn’t directed at you in particular, more my view on a few things that’s been posted previously.0 -
I think this discussion has gone in a completely different direction to the ops plan but no harm having the conversation. People here for the most part are friendly and welcoming. Of course it can be intimidating to come on here and post or ask questions if you feel that everyone knows each other but joining in the discussion or asking questions is largely how posters get to know each other. I'd definitely encourage any lurkers or new posters to get more involved. I see people taking part in the challenges threads that I never see posting which is a shame. We all have something to learn from each other and that includes new posters.
Also, it can take time to build a rapour with people online so don't be disheartened if you're not always getting a response. I wouldn't read too much into the 'thanks' button either.0 -
For what it's worth, I don't think the poster who left needed any intervention on her log - she seemed to be doing just fine, running wise.
And another thing is, a lot of us DO actually know each other in real life. It's a real world sport, and in a small country a lot of "us" end up doing the same races, and chatting over cups of tea and egg sandwiches. Maybe even over a few pints afterwards. Once you know someone in real life, it's feels more appropriate to address them by their real names or initials - maybe it looks a bit cliquey from the outside alright, but it also feels (to me) like good manners to adopt a more personal tone when you know someone, or at least have interacted with them regularly and you know each other's names (e.g. from strava etc).
With no racing, it's a pity that newer posters haven't had this opportunity to meet up and widen the circle. They'd soon see that it's a pretty inclusive bunch of people. I still get embarrassed thinking of the time I doorstepped Krusty on the way to his dinner at Charleville after the race, awkwardly introducing myself as someone from the internet. He had no idea who this eejit was, but was a perfect gentleman. But I've made a good few genuine friends on here, and am grateful to have had the opportunity.
I genuinely don't see how this translates to a 'toxic environment'.
I don’t think there is a toxic environment to be fair. I also don’t think that there should be any onus on posters to respond to logs / threads if they don’t wish too.
It’s obvious that certain posters know each other in real life and there’s nothing wrong with that. I enjoy the banter on those logs and there are a number of logs that I have learned a lot from just by reading.0 -
The forum tends to do this kind of analysis /recalibration every so often.
It's great people get to chat about their hobbies, shared experience and meet in the real world.
Clique is definitely the wrong word as expanding your circle is a good thing.
I think acceptance is a more appropriate word and everyone wants to feel accepted.
I've been part of the forum on and off since 2008 and have met so many great people over the years.
We've won the Wicklow Way relay, we were Ireland's first virtual affiliated running club, as a forum we've probably produced more parkrun volunteers than any club in the country.
That's just to name a few, this forum is priceless but it is changing.
I crave the years of past, I posted way more back then, not sure why I don't post as often but I still keep coming back.
Two things I'd love to see change and I do feel it would help the forum:
1. More interaction from the mods, leading discussions and creating threads.
2. Real world names/initials should not be used.
Usernames only, real names in the real world.0 -
The forum tends to do this kind of analysis /recalibration every so often.
It's great people get to chat about their hobbies, shared experience and meet in the real world.
Clique is definitely the wrong word as expanding your circle is a good thing.
I think acceptance is a more appropriate word and everyone wants to feel accepted.
I've been part of the forum on and off since 2008 and have met so many great people over the years.
We've won the Wicklow Way relay, we were Ireland's first virtual affiliated running club, as a forum we've probably produced more parkrun volunteers than any club in the country.
That's just to name a few, this forum is priceless but it is changing.
I crave the years of past, I posted way more back then, not sure why I don't post as often but I still keep coming back.
Two things I'd love to see change and I do feel it would help the forum:
1. More interaction from the mods, leading discussions and creating threads.
2. Real world names/initials should not be used.
Usernames only, real names in the real world.
Why the issue with real world names/initials? As a previous poster has said if you know someone in real life it’s manners to address them by name or initials?
Like yourself I think the years of past were so better but the likes of Strava/Facebook/Twitter and real life took posters away from the forum.0 -
OOnegative wrote: »Why the issue with real world names/initials? As a previous poster has said if you know someone in real life it’s manners to address them by name or initials?
Like yourself I think the years of past were so better but the likes of Strava/Facebook/Twitter and real life took posters away the forum.
I just think optics and to help with embracing new or returning members.
Could be just me, but it reinforces the feeling of being out of touch.
I should also probably point out, I was dropped after year 1 of the Wicklow way re-lay :-)0 -
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lulublue22 wrote: »I don’t think there is a toxic environment to be fair. I also don’t think that there should be any onus on posters to respond to logs / threads if they don’t wish too.
It’s obvious that certain posters know each other in real life and there’s nothing wrong with that. I enjoy the banter on those logs and there are a number of logs that I have learned a lot from just by reading.
Can I just say I've only met a couple of posters in real life. A lot of the banter I have back & forth is with people I have never met. I gauge people, see who I can have banter with just like in real life, seeing who I get along with. I have learned so much about running from the many logs I follow but also I enjoy that banter & reading some of the personal things people put up. I would encourage anyone to ask the questions, post on logs etc. Communication is a two way thing so the more interaction the better. I wouldn't have a world of knowledge when it comes to running but I do like encouraging people etc. All I know for sure is the forum definitely helped me with my running.0 -
OOnegative wrote: »But any poster worth there salt will remember a previous poster or re-reg.
I haven't a clue who's who? And just giving it to you from my pov, the initials/real names put me off, could be just me.
I would put more emphasis on point 1 though, more engagement from mods and perhaps even rotating them more often.
I think back to raycun, hunnymonster, donothoponpop, ecoli, Amadeus, Tingle, they all brought ideas and engagement to the forum.
Nothing against current mods (I've met them all in the real world, sound people) but new blood should be brought in, someone to bring a bit of enthusiasm and life. Robinph seems to be the only one who still regularly posts.0 -
I haven't a clue who's who? And just giving it to you from my pov, the initials/real names put me off, could be just me.
I would put more emphasis on point 1 though, more engagement from mods and perhaps even rotating them more often.
I think back to raycun, hunnymonster, donothoponpop, ecoli, Amadeus, Tingle, they all brought ideas and engagement to the forum.
Nothing against current mods (I've met them all in the real world, sound people) but new blood should be brought in, someone to bring a bit of enthusiasm and life. Robinph seems to be the only one who still regularly posts.
Yeah ok, I kind of making a point out of knowing who I’m posting to!!
I won’t comment on the mods issue as I’ve never had issues with any and that’s dating back to when ecoli was 15 and was a mod!!0 -
OOnegative wrote: »Yeah ok, I kind of making a point out of knowing who I’m posting to!!
I won’t comment on the mods issue as I’ve never had issues with any and that’s dating back to when ecoli was 15 and was a mod!!
:-) In fairness mine is almost identical.
Are you a previous poster? I don't remember OOnegative back in the day.
Mods were definitely more active 100%0 -
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OOnegative wrote: »Is it not a little unfair to state a group of posters who have built up a rapport over many years as a “clique”?
There’s this image that there’s a closed shop for the so called “cool club” within the place which is completely false. Turn the whole thing around, how many new posters bother going into established logs and asks questions?
That’s how I learned, I asked the most ridiculous questions to the likes of meno, Krusty, digger, claralara etc starting out, I didn’t always get an answer but more often than not I did.
I didn’t expect the red carpet to be rolled out for me because I opened a log and was a new poster.
I brought up cliques because I was trying to put myself in the shoes of someone like API who described the atmosphere as toxic and after a few months of posting has quit and deleted their account. I certainly don't agree it is toxic but was just trying to look at it from their perspective and could relate to parts. Like I said I do feel there is a genuine community here, the likes of the Boards 5K thread last year is a fantastic example of that and you yourself have reached out to me in my log which I really did appreciated.
And I completely agree the only way to feel part of that community is to actively engage something I am guilty myself of not doing enough of.
Anyway I didn't mean to derail the thread with that comment so I'll leave it at that. Of all the forums on boards this is definitely one of the most positive.0 -
Boy am I annoyed at wasting an hour of my run this evening absorbing and formulating a response to the clique/toxic posts only to see everyone already made my points....0
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Swashbuckler wrote: »Boy am I annoyed at wasting an hour of my run this evening absorbing and formulating a response to the clique/toxic posts only to see everyone already made my points....
Please share, no cliques here!!0 -
No way B!
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