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Advice on first EV purchase - Leaf or Ioniq or ?

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    #32
    jasonb
    Registered Users Posts: 3,313 ✭✭✭jasonb


    KCross wrote: »
    Ioniq has a bigger battery than L30 and it’s more efficient with that energy.

    Ok, next stupid question, more efficient is one thing, is a 28kwh battery not smaller than a 30kwh battery?


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    #33
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,070 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    jasonb wrote: »
    Ok, next stupid question, more efficient is one thing, is a 28kwh battery not smaller than a 30kwh battery?

    Ioniq has a 31kWh battery, 28 usable
    Leaf has 30kWh, 28 usable.

    The key thing is the usable amount. The Leaf only has 28kWh on day 1. It degrades from there. The Ioniq gives 28kWh for longer as it has a larger buffer.


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    #34
    jasonb
    Registered Users Posts: 3,313 ✭✭✭jasonb


    Ah, thanks! As usual, the devil is in the detail.


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    #35
    Orebro
    Registered Users Posts: 1,233 ✭✭✭Orebro


    Deleted User wrote: »

    I got mine from electricautos @ 17k landed from UK, 35k miles on it. This https://electriccarsales.ie/product/hyundai-ioniq-171/ was heavily on my radar at the same time, but was at that time priced at 18k and with the additional mileage I was moved back onto the Premium from Phil. I think that if I were back choosing again I'd have paid more attention to the one from electriccarsales but we are where we are!

    As above, uppababy vista fits no problem, we're still seating Mama in back with the newborn and she's got plenty of space back there.

    This is one of my pet peeves - a dealer selling a car "on behalf of customer" - so what does that mean exactly? I assume it means we're helping someone sell it, so we're obviously taking a cut in the sale but you don't get any of the benefits of buying from a dealer like warranty?


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    #36
    Lantus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,027 ✭✭✭Lantus


    Patser wrote: »
    If you start talking id4, which is high money, then you can point to new to market models like e-2008, e Mokka and e-C4, which'll be about 30k new - so not as eye watering as the id4.

    Mocca and 2008 are not in the same space class as an octavia

    Get the car right first in terms of meeting requirements and then see if an ev is acheivable and within budget.

    Id4 comes close. Starting to see the turn now and good family cars are around the corner hopefully.


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    #37
    Duckjob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,857 ✭✭✭Duckjob


    jasonb wrote: »
    Quick stupid question... I'd always (probably incorrectly) used the rule of thumb of dividing the battery size by two to get an idea of range. In other words, an L24 might do about 120k, an L30 150k etc.

    However, people on this thread are comparing an Ioniq 28 with a L40 in terms of range. So is the rule of thumb I heard useless, or does it only apply to Leafs? If an Ioniq 28 has a better range than a L30, why does it?

    Thanks!

    Ioniq is a lot more aerodynamic so its energy goes a lot further than the Leaf. I think I recall hearing that the Ioniq's drag coefficient is one of the lower of any production car made.


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    #38
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,794 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    jasonb wrote: »
    Quick stupid question... I'd always (probably incorrectly) used the rule of thumb of dividing the battery size by two to get an idea of range. In other words, an L24 might do about 120k, an L30 150k etc.

    However, people on this thread are comparing an Ioniq 28 with a L40 in terms of range. So is the rule of thumb I heard useless, or does it only apply to Leafs? If an Ioniq 28 has a better range than a L30, why does it?

    Thanks!

    One thing I always do when comparing cars is to use the ev-database.org numbers. It's a bit annoying as they don't have an easy way to compare old models, I try search terms like
    site:ev-database.org ioniq 2018
    in google which gives you the following to compare a 30kWh and 28kWh Ioniq.

    https://ev-database.org/car/1057/Hyundai-IONIQ-Electric
    https://ev-database.org/car/1020/Nissan-Leaf-30-kWh


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    #39
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Also - not going to be popular for this but given your very low "normal daily" usage, an Outlander PHEV could be suitable.
    Plenty of space, you'd run on electricity the vast majority of time if < 40km range per day, charging each night.
    Range anxiety disappears.

    In budget at nice spec level - https://www.electricautos.ie/viewanad.php?ad_id=2739235


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    #40
    Kramer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,224 ✭✭✭Kramer


    Orebro wrote: »
    This is one of my pet peeves - a dealer selling a car "on behalf of customer" - so what does that mean exactly? I assume it means we're helping someone sell it, so we're obviously taking a cut in the sale but you don't get any of the benefits of buying from a dealer like warranty?

    Phil in Electric Autos sold our Ioniq. He took all the hassle out of it for us, dealing with time wasters, tyre kickers, doing test drives etc. Being an EV specialist, he was also able to offer other EVs, so somewhat unbiased.

    He'd have been able to advise on trade in value, likely offer finance & has a good reputation to protect. A prospective buyer would be far more comfortable dropping €20k+ to him, than a random private seller.

    He'd arguably also have far more reach, in terms of potential customers, with his history & reputation.

    I don't think he adds crazy margins either, like main dealers, so I'd still value his service, even on factory warrantied cars.


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    #41
    Patser
    Registered Users Posts: 7,874 ✭✭✭Patser


    Lantus wrote: »
    Mocca and 2008 are not in the same space class as an octavia

    Get the car right first in terms of meeting requirements and then see if an ev is acheivable and within budget.

    Id4 comes close. Starting to see the turn now and good family cars are around the corner hopefully.

    True enough about the size, although the rarely mentioned e-C4 would be similar to an Octavia.

    But your point us right, the larger SUV type class that dominates Irish sales is only starting to go electric (Kia E-Niro only exception, probably best EV on market when price/size/range taken into account)


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    #42
    whatawaster
    Registered Users Posts: 12,906 ✭✭✭✭whatawaster


    https://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/hyundai/ioniq/fpa/202101258326602?journey=Search

    What about this 171 Ioniq, €18,950. I don't love White, but it ticks a lot of other boxes in terms of specs. Is it pricey for a 171?


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    #43
    peposhi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭peposhi


    whatawaster wrote: »
    https://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/hyundai/ioniq/fpa/202101258326602?journey=Search

    What about this 171 Ioniq, €18,950. I don't love White, but it ticks a lot of other boxes in terms of specs. Is it pricey for a 171?

    For EVs age does not matter as much as for ICE.
    4 years iOniq will do you for a looong, long time.
    As long as the car is in good mechanical order and not crashed or something, you’d get a good value out of it. White is a bitch to keep clean but I guess you need it not for the looks.

    I second the opinion expressed above about Phil in Naas. He’d give you as honest as it can be answer to any question you have and perhaps land you a good deal on a car you want...


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    #44
    peposhi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭peposhi


    whatawaster wrote: »
    https://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/hyundai/ioniq/fpa/202101258326602?journey=Search

    What about this 171 Ioniq, €18,950. I don't love White, but it ticks a lot of other boxes in terms of specs. Is it pricey for a 171?


    I like that one. Very well presented so someone took time to get the message out... pretty low mileage too.


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    #45
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    €2k more expensive than the Premium SE in black @ https://electriccarsales.ie/product/hyundai-ioniq-171/ (site looks in ribbons - https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/2017-hyundai-ioniq-28kwh/27207868 )?

    Yes half the mileage, but that's a significant premium to pay for a lower specced car otherwise?


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    #46
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,794 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Deleted User wrote: »
    €2k more expensive than the Premium SE in black @ https://electriccarsales.ie/product/hyundai-ioniq-171/ (site looks in ribbons - https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/2017-hyundai-ioniq-28kwh/27207868 )?

    Yes half the mileage, but that's a significant premium to pay for a lower specced car otherwise?

    50,000km probably accounts for a fair amount of the premium. I know with an EV there is less of a concern with mechanical wear but there is still an element of a car that has been used twice as much is going to depreciate more.


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    #47
    whatawaster
    Registered Users Posts: 12,906 ✭✭✭✭whatawaster


    I'm now kind of tempted by the Nissan 0% offer on the new Leaf.


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    #48
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    whatawaster wrote: »
    I'm now kind of tempted by the Nissan 0% offer on the new Leaf.

    0% but you'll be paying for most the depreciation. Is there anything a new leaf gets you over a 2018 leaf 40 or ioniq?


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    #49
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    whatawaster wrote: »
    https://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/hyundai/ioniq/fpa/202101258326602?journey=Search

    What about this 171 Ioniq, €18,950. I don't love White, but it ticks a lot of other boxes in terms of specs. Is it pricey for a 171?

    Pricey imo. Going with a dealer means nothing, as the car has plenty of warranty remaining from Hyundai.
    18k from a dealer is probably ok. 17k private would be a good price. Tyres are cheap though, bloody dealers. I'd be getting a proper set on it at that price.


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    #50
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,373 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    whatawaster wrote: »
    I'm now kind of tempted by the Nissan 0% offer on the new Leaf.
    You'd be buying the last of the Blackberry phones as everyone else is getting their iPhone. Dont do it.


    Its heavily discounted for a reason.


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    #51
    whatawaster
    Registered Users Posts: 12,906 ✭✭✭✭whatawaster


    Black_Knight wrote: »
    0% but you'll be paying for most the depreciation. Is there anything a new leaf gets you over a 2018 leaf 40 or ioniq?

    Beyond warranty and some peace of mind, probably nothing . . .


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    #52
    peposhi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭peposhi


    whatawaster wrote: »
    I'm now kind of tempted by the Nissan 0% offer on the new Leaf.

    If you are keeping the car for good, why not...


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    #53
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,373 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Because it's already outdated. Imagine in 3-5 years how bad it will be


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    #54
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,777 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Heavily discounted is good. As long as you know what you're buying, it could be a good deal. Remember the fully loaded top spec SVE / Tekna Nissan Leafs that were sold in 2017 for €19k? They were a great buy. Some people had paid €10k more for them only a few weeks before that. Now they were the losers :D


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    #55
    peposhi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭peposhi


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Because it's already outdated. Imagine in 3-5 years how bad it will be

    Outdated you say... If we treat our cars like a laptop that needs a replacement every 3-5 years for the sake of it or just because the new software is not running well with the old hardware of course you get hit by depreciation. Cars are made to run for a good few years before it’s time to go though...
    Think of the lad from Fully Charged series - 11 years and counting on his Japanese made G1.0 Leaf and he’s still happy with it.
    Of course everyone circumstances are different but we really do not need to change cars unless they are not worth repairing...
    I have an eSoul that replaced the L24 and it’s used for any long/unexpected journey and still have the L30 for my daily routine drive. I don’t need to replace them at all probably for the next 10 years but I would not be surprised to change my mind cause I got fed up with the look of them one day and will find loads of reasons to justify the change...
    My dad’s first car was kept in the family for 38 years (I still regret selling it). Same with the EVs...


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    #56
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,373 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    unkel wrote: »
    Heavily discounted is good. As long as you know what you're buying, it could be a good deal. Remember the fully loaded top spec SVE / Tekna Nissan Leafs that were sold in 2017 for €19k? They were a great buy. Some people had paid €10k more for them only a few weeks before that. Now they were the losers :D


    Absolutely. There were great deals on the leaf40 when the 62 came out that may still be there too.


    If you buy at the right price point knowing and accepting of the limitations then you can get a great deal.


    In your example, you have to be the person paying the 19k not the person paying the 29k!!


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    #57
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,777 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    peposhi wrote: »
    Think of the lad from Fully Charged series - 11 years and counting on his Japanese made G1.0 Leaf and he’s still happy with it.

    He's an evangelist, he would say that. And do you really think he still drives his old Leaf for anything but a wee photoshoot or an occasional spin to the local shops? ;)

    It's just a prop at this stage, sitting pretty in his garage...


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    #58
    slave1
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,697 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    peposhi wrote: »
    ..
    Think of the lad from Fully Charged series - 11 years and counting on his Japanese made G1.0 Leaf and he’s still happy with it.
    ....
    Battery no good for him though, he was getting a new one last year but Covid postponed it.
    He's currently running it from pure PV, same as me! (well, lockdown mileage)

    My stuff for sale on Adverts inc. outdoor furniture, roof box and EDDI

    My Active Ads (adverts.ie)



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    #59
    whatawaster
    Registered Users Posts: 12,906 ✭✭✭✭whatawaster


    What's good price for a 191 Ioniq? Less than €23,450, I'm guessing!

    191 Hyundai Ioniq

    Would be nice to have a 3 year warranty remaining though


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    #60
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,373 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Yes, probably 20k


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    #61
    whatawaster
    Registered Users Posts: 12,906 ✭✭✭✭whatawaster


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Yes, probably 20k

    Unfortunately, doesn't seem like €20k is an achievable price from a dealer looking at the prices on Carzone/Donedeal. €23k-€28k is what they are looking for.

    Even 2018's are all above €20k.

    Having a trade-in really is a pain


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