Advice on first EV purchase - Leaf or Ioniq or ?

whatawaster

Hi,

We (2 adults, 2 kids aged 2 and 4) are a 1-car household - currently a 181 Skoda Octavia 1.0l.

PCP is up on the Octavia in a few months, so we have a decision to make. We love the space and practicaility of the Octavia, but want to change for one big reason - my wife is on a learner permit, and is extremely nervous. Has basically put the foot down and said she wants an automatic. Who am I to argue.

I told myself 3 years ago when we got the Skoda that it would be our last ICE car so if we are changing, I want it to be an EV.

A little about our situation:
- home owners, with our own driveway so no problem installing a charger
- Not sure if it's a problem - but we already have 2 electric showers, with a priority switch installed on our board.
- I work from home, wife stays at home with the kids. Even if I need to go back to work after Covid, my office is only 5km away. The vast majority of our journeys are within 10-15k (work, creche, shopping, grandparents - that's basically our lives!)
- Ocassional weekend excursion (probably max 75km journey, so 150km there and back)
- Maybe once or twice a year we might go down the country for holidays etc, so would need to rely on public charging for this.
- About 12,000 km per year, and about €1200 spent on fuel

I'm thinking we would have about €5k equity on the Octavia (based on €10k still o/s on finance and €15k value)

Budget is around €20k, including the equity on the Octavia.

My current thinking
- We have only 2 good options: a Leaf or an Ioniq. Am I wrong? I don't think anything else in our price range has the space for our families needs.
- I couldn't go back to not having Apple Carplay, so I think that limits me to a 2018 or newer Leaf (correct me if I'm wrong) or any Ioniq.
- Leaf seems cheaper and more widely available. Only minor things putting me off are: a) it doesn't look as good as the Ioniq, b) public charging seems slower??? and c) seems less well-specced.


Some questions:
- Given I have a car to trade in, does that limit me to a dealer? Is it even possible to trade in during the current restrictions.
- Do I need to worry more about mileage on the car, or the age of the car (And battery)? For example, is an older car with fewer miles better than a newer car with more miles, all other things being equal?
- Anything other than the Ioniq or Leaf I am forgetting?

Thanks!

slave1

Ioniq 28 would be a good choice, as a Leaf30 owner I would not go for one in your scenario given longer trips as those occasional weekend trips would not be achievable in Winter, also slower Public charging.

whatawaster

slave1 wrote: »

Ioniq 28 would be a good choice, as a Leaf30 owner I would not go for one in your scenario given longer trips as those occasional weekend trips would not be achievable in Winter, also slower Public charging.

Thanks, definitely leaning slightly towards the Ioniq.

Does the above apply to the Leaf40 as well as the Leaf30?

Gumbo

whatawaster wrote: »

Thanks, definitely leaning slightly towards the Ioniq.

Does the above apply to the Leaf40 as well as the Leaf30?

I'd take a Leaf 40 over an Ioniq personally.
You cant compare it to the Leaf 30 as its the newer shape etc

slave1

In terms of just RANGE there is nothing between the Ioniq24 and Leaf40.
Advantages of the Ioniq include cheaper, more access to public charge points and much faster public charging

whatawaster

Excuse my ignorance, but regarding charge times:

If a Leaf has a capacity of 40kwh and a Chademo charger has a speed of 50kw, does that mean a leaf will charge in full in around 45 minutes? Is it as simple as that?

Kramer

whatawaster wrote: »

If a Leaf has a capacity of 40kwh and a Chademo charger has a speed of 50kw, does that mean a leaf will charge in full in around 45 minutes? Is it as simple as that?

In some respects, yes.

It's not quite that simple, for example the charge speed reduces as the battery gets more charged, batteries can charge more slowly when they are very cold, or very hot, but you'd usually get close to max charge speed (on a 50kW charger) up to nearly 80% SoC (state of charge).

You'd normally only ever charge to 80% on a DC charger anyway, as that last 20% would take ages.

krissovo

You will love a Ioniq, you will also love a Leaf..... I guarantee you will love both with your use case and you will not go wrong with whatever decide. I have owned a leaf and test drove a Ioniq, Leaf is slightly better for family and if you go for a SV or SVE you will have all the luxuries you ever need. The flip side is that if you decide to go cross country the Ioniq is by far the better long distance car.

You will arguably get more for your money with a leaf imo but do not count out a BMW i3 which there are options in your price range. I have two kids under 10 and the first choice car in our house is the I3 for any journey. Kids can see out the rear windows plus the car is a hoot to drive. The I3 has outlasted a leaf 40, tesla M3 and still the I3 is our first choice within range limits despite a Mercedes EQC in our drive which has done less than1000km this year.

Andrewf20

What about boot space? I get the impression they look small in the Ioniq and leaf for a 2&4 year old. Do you need space for a double buggy & will it fit etc.

Black_Knight

Andrewf20 wrote: »

What about boot space? I get the impression they look small in the Ioniq and leaf for a 2&4 year old. Do you need space for a double buggy & will it fit etc.

Our ioniq takes our uppababy vista easily, and just takes our outnabout double buggy.

At a absolute squeeze, this Christmas we packed the car with 2 car seats in the back, uppababy vista, suitcase, large overnight back, overnight bag, 3 packs of nappies, box of toys, baby bouncer, other baby/kids stuff, Jackets/wet gear and a large haul of bulky presents (think bulky kids toys). The car was brimming, and this was after removing the floor of the boot for an extra inch or 2 of space, but it all just fit.

It holds a lot, but not super comfortably, and my 2 and a half year old in her swivel car seat does kick the drivers seat now. I'm 6 foot, swivel seat eats up some space too

whatawaster

Andrewf20 wrote: »

What about boot space? I get the impression they look small in the Ioniq and leaf for a 2&4 year old. Do you need space for a double buggy & will it fit etc.

We are down to a compact stroller at this stage for the 2 year old so I imagine would have no problem fitting in any boot.

More concerned about my golf clubs to be honest

optimal

I had a Leaf 30 for a number of years and put up a lot of mileage on it - great car, never gave me the slightest bit of trouble in any way (in fact I upgraded to a newer one and loving it too!). So from that perspective I would recommend the Leaf.

However, I would not recommend the L30 for a 150Km journey especially in Winter or on motorway. With a spouse and kids the very last thing you need to be doing on a wet cold evening is looking for a charger. Realistically in winter you would only be looking at 120km with any confidence and that driving carefully. I can't speak for the Ioniq, the general opinion here is that it is a good car, I preferred the higher driving position in the Leaf but that's a personal thing.

if you do go with a Leaf try and stretch to the SVE / Tekna. You'll love to be able to step into a warm car with all seats and steering wheel heated on a frosty morning, or after a long day to tell it to heat up and be ready for you. And the leather seats will be great for the kids! I couldn't step back to a lower standard now

I had very similar requirements / budget when buying in November, though only 1 child and them just a newborn.

I went for the Ioniq and am very happy. I think the car and boot space is a little smaller than what I might have expected though we haven't really had an occasion to put it to the test yet.

The car itself is a lovely drive, shockingly easy really, with some nice extras that are all exciting to me as my prev car was a 2001 Astra. I have Premium, but was really looking for the Premium SE.

I got mine from electricautos @ 17k landed from UK, 35k miles on it. This https://electriccarsales.ie/product/hyundai-ioniq-171/ was heavily on my radar at the same time, but was at that time priced at 18k and with the additional mileage I was moved back onto the Premium from Phil. I think that if I were back choosing again I'd have paid more attention to the one from electriccarsales but we are where we are!

As above, uppababy vista fits no problem, we're still seating Mama in back with the newborn and she's got plenty of space back there.

Patser

Just to give you an alternative to think about, the 2018 onwards Kia Soul has very good range and a lot of space. It's whether the looks are your thing though

example
https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/kia-soul-ev/26556336

ELM327

Ioniq28 ftw, so much better than the others at the same price point.

whatawaster

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I had very similar requirements / budget when buying in November, though only 1 child and them just a newborn.

I went for the Ioniq and am very happy. I think the car and boot space is a little smaller than what I might have expected though we haven't really had an occasion to put it to the test yet.

The car itself is a lovely drive, shockingly easy really, with some nice extras that are all exciting to me as my prev car was a 2001 Astra. I have Premium, but was really looking for the Premium SE.

I got mine from electricautos @ 17k landed from UK, 35k miles on it. This https://electriccarsales.ie/product/hyundai-ioniq-171/ was heavily on my radar at the same time, but was at that time priced at 18k and with the additional mileage I was moved back onto the Premium from Phil. I think that if I were back choosing again I'd have paid more attention to the one from electriccarsales but we are where we are!

As above, uppababy vista fits no problem, we're still seating Mama in back with the newborn and she's got plenty of space back there.

Thanks for all the info. Do Electricautos take trade ins?

cannco253

yes they do.

+1 vote for Leaf Tekna, the heated rear seats are very popular during the school drop off !

peposhi

Most of what I’d have said is already mentioned by the lads.
My 2 pence :

I’d pick iOniq over L30 any day! Range, space, regen braking options, speed of charging most of all...

iOniq vs L40 (SVE/Tekna).. as a city car the L40 will give you better range and both cars feel equally modern... The L40 costs more to buy though...

I do think you should drop L30 as an option. You’d future proof yourself with the other two...

whatawaster

peposhi wrote: »

Most of what I’d have said is already mentioned by the lads.
My 2 pence :

I’d pick iOniq over L30 any day! Range, space, regen braking options, speed of charging most of all...

iOniq vs L40 (SVE/Tekna).. as a city car the L40 will give you better range and both cars feel equally modern... The L40 costs more to buy though...

I do think you should drop L30 as an option. You’d future proof yourself with the other two...

I'm not actually considering the L30 at all.
Just 2018+ Leaf's as I will not go without Carplay and it doesn't seem to have been an option pre-2018. I do see some 181 models which are 30kwh, but I'm not considering those.

unkel

whatawaster wrote: »

that limits me to a 2018 or newer Leaf (correct me if I'm wrong) or any Ioniq.
- Leaf seems cheaper

Where did you get that from?

We've seen an Ioniq last week for €13999. Granted, that was an outlier and usually the cheapest early 2017 one you can find would be more in the €16k-€17k range

I've never seen a current model Leaf anywhere near those prices though, it seems you have???

peposhi

whatawaster wrote: »

I'm not actually considering the L30 at all.
Just 2018+ Leaf's as I will not go without Carplay and it doesn't seem to have been an option pre-2018. I do see some 181 models which are 30kwh, but I'm not considering those.

Ah, it’s easier then

L40 for around the town and occasional longer journey, with more cargo space and beautiful looks (gunmetal one looks like an angry soldier)
Or
iOniq for daily 150km motorway commute with this Hyundai being one of the most efficient EVs on the market with nicely quick fast charging (once i had one for a test drive I filled 26kwh in less than 30 minutes which was more than my entire battery pack in my first EV!)

whatawaster

unkel wrote: »

Where did you get that from?

We've seen an Ioniq last week for €13999. Granted, that was an outlier and usually the cheapest early 2017 one you can find would be more in the €16k-€17k range

I've never seen a current model Leaf anywhere near those prices though, it seems you have???

Being honest I haven’t seen either near those prices!

Just looking on Carzone, for comparisons sake I’m looking at 2018 models of both (and discounting the Leaf30):

Ioniq seems to be priced between 20 and 24 but skewed towards the top end

Leaf similar price range but more choice at the bottom end

Donedeal or private sales may be different of course but because of my trade in I will be going to a dealer most likely

Lantus

Op I'm in a very similar position bar older kids with a diesel octavia. The leaf and ioniq are nice but not family cars like the octavia. You are driving piddle all so it's not a saving money argument.

My answer is an id4 but I'd still like something bigger. And an id4 is huge money.

The real solution I think is a petrol auto octavia or superb for the next 3 to 5 years while the ev market matures.

That boot will fit every holiday, bike and camping trip for your young family as they grow. Get a tow bar for bikes.

unkel

whatawaster wrote: »

Being honest I haven’t seen either near those prices!

Just looking on Carzone, for comparisons sake I’m looking at 2018 models of both (and discounting the Leaf30):

Ioniq seems to be priced between 20 and 24 but skewed towards the top end

Towards the top end? LOL!

I'd be aiming for below the bottom end. Sell your old car privately, dump it if you have to, to get a better cost to change than going via the trade. Who - in fairness to them, need to take a few grand off you. They are no charity, they need to put bread on the table.

whatawaster

unkel wrote: »

Towards the top end? LOL!

I'd be aiming for below the bottom end. Sell your old car privately, dump it if you have to, to get a better cost to change than going via the trade. Who - in fairness to them, need to take a few grand off you. They are no charity, they need to put bread on the table.

Don’t know what to tell you, there are 5 ads on Carzone for 2018 Ioniq Electrics and only one of them is below 21k. I will of course be aiming as low as possible!

Granted, these are only asking prices, and there are 2017 models for cheaper. I was just trying to compare with Leafs of the same year.

Selling privately not really an option unfortunately. Especially not something I want to deal with during current restrictions

Patser

Lantus wrote: »

Op I'm in a very similar position bar older kids with a diesel octavia. The leaf and ioniq are nice but not family cars like the octavia. You are driving piddle all so it's not a saving money argument.

My answer is an id4 but I'd still like something bigger. And an id4 is huge money.

The real solution I think is a petrol auto octavia or superb for the next 3 to 5 years while the ev market matures.

That boot will fit every holiday, bike and camping trip for your young family as they grow. Get a tow bar for bikes.

If you start talking id4, which is high money, then you can point to new to market models like e-2008, e Mokka and e-C4, which'll be about 30k new - so not as eye watering as the id4.

Also check out the Ioniq 5 thread here, that is as big as a Tucson/ Quasqai for hopefully sub €40k

One of the big problems with buying an EV at the moment is that the choice is exploding at the moment, and the next car to launch in a 'few months' always looks great. There always seems to be another great car on the horizon. Gone are the days of 'Well there's the Leaf I suppose'.

Wait 3 years and it'll still be the same

peposhi

Most of what I’d have said is already mentioned by the lads.
My 2 pence :

I’d pick iOniq over L30 any day! Range, space, regen braking options, speed of charging most of all...

iOniq vs L40 (SVE/Tekna).. as a city car the L40 will give you better range and both cars feel equally modern... The L40 costs more to buy though...

I do think you should drop L30 as an option. You’d future proof yourself with the other two...

peposhi

Most of what I’d have said is already mentioned by the lads.
My 2 pence :

I’d pick iOniq over L30 any day! Range, space, regen braking options, speed of charging most of all...

iOniq vs L40 (SVE/Tekna).. as a city car the L40 will give you better range and both cars feel equally modern... The L40 costs more to buy though...

I do think you should drop L30 as an option. You’d future proof yourself with the other two...

eagerv

We paid 20K just over a year ago for our 2017 Ioniq. Was in showroom condition (Still is, washed it by hand today). Not even a stone chip as yet. Normally just hose it down, car has paint protection since new, so easy to wash.


Bought from Hyundai dealer which probably turned out a little more expensive, but don't regret it. Got new tyres (Expensive ones) and all updates/ service thrown in.



Certainly don't regret it, a great car.

jasonb

Quick stupid question... I'd always (probably incorrectly) used the rule of thumb of dividing the battery size by two to get an idea of range. In other words, an L24 might do about 120k, an L30 150k etc.

However, people on this thread are comparing an Ioniq 28 with a L40 in terms of range. So is the rule of thumb I heard useless, or does it only apply to Leafs? If an Ioniq 28 has a better range than a L30, why does it?

Thanks!

KCross

jasonb wrote: »

If an Ioniq 28 has a better range than a L30, why does it?

Ioniq has a bigger battery than L30 and it’s more efficient with that energy.

jasonb

KCross wrote: »

Ioniq has a bigger battery than L30 and it’s more efficient with that energy.

Ok, next stupid question, more efficient is one thing, is a 28kwh battery not smaller than a 30kwh battery?

KCross

jasonb wrote: »

Ok, next stupid question, more efficient is one thing, is a 28kwh battery not smaller than a 30kwh battery?

Ioniq has a 31kWh battery, 28 usable
Leaf has 30kWh, 28 usable.

The key thing is the usable amount. The Leaf only has 28kWh on day 1. It degrades from there. The Ioniq gives 28kWh for longer as it has a larger buffer.

jasonb

Ah, thanks! As usual, the devil is in the detail.

Orebro

Deleted User wrote: »

I got mine from electricautos @ 17k landed from UK, 35k miles on it. This https://electriccarsales.ie/product/hyundai-ioniq-171/ was heavily on my radar at the same time, but was at that time priced at 18k and with the additional mileage I was moved back onto the Premium from Phil. I think that if I were back choosing again I'd have paid more attention to the one from electriccarsales but we are where we are!

As above, uppababy vista fits no problem, we're still seating Mama in back with the newborn and she's got plenty of space back there.

This is one of my pet peeves - a dealer selling a car "on behalf of customer" - so what does that mean exactly? I assume it means we're helping someone sell it, so we're obviously taking a cut in the sale but you don't get any of the benefits of buying from a dealer like warranty?

Lantus

Patser wrote: »

If you start talking id4, which is high money, then you can point to new to market models like e-2008, e Mokka and e-C4, which'll be about 30k new - so not as eye watering as the id4.

Mocca and 2008 are not in the same space class as an octavia

Get the car right first in terms of meeting requirements and then see if an ev is acheivable and within budget.

Id4 comes close. Starting to see the turn now and good family cars are around the corner hopefully.

Duckjob

jasonb wrote: »

Quick stupid question... I'd always (probably incorrectly) used the rule of thumb of dividing the battery size by two to get an idea of range. In other words, an L24 might do about 120k, an L30 150k etc.

However, people on this thread are comparing an Ioniq 28 with a L40 in terms of range. So is the rule of thumb I heard useless, or does it only apply to Leafs? If an Ioniq 28 has a better range than a L30, why does it?

Thanks!

Ioniq is a lot more aerodynamic so its energy goes a lot further than the Leaf. I think I recall hearing that the Ioniq's drag coefficient is one of the lower of any production car made.

liamog

jasonb wrote: »

Quick stupid question... I'd always (probably incorrectly) used the rule of thumb of dividing the battery size by two to get an idea of range. In other words, an L24 might do about 120k, an L30 150k etc.

However, people on this thread are comparing an Ioniq 28 with a L40 in terms of range. So is the rule of thumb I heard useless, or does it only apply to Leafs? If an Ioniq 28 has a better range than a L30, why does it?

Thanks!

One thing I always do when comparing cars is to use the ev-database.org numbers. It's a bit annoying as they don't have an easy way to compare old models, I try search terms like

site:ev-database.org ioniq 2018

in google which gives you the following to compare a 30kWh and 28kWh Ioniq.

https://ev-database.org/car/1057/Hyundai-IONIQ-Electric
https://ev-database.org/car/1020/Nissan-Leaf-30-kWh

Also - not going to be popular for this but given your very low "normal daily" usage, an Outlander PHEV could be suitable.
Plenty of space, you'd run on electricity the vast majority of time if < 40km range per day, charging each night.
Range anxiety disappears.

In budget at nice spec level - https://www.electricautos.ie/viewanad.php?ad_id=2739235

Kramer

Orebro wrote: »

This is one of my pet peeves - a dealer selling a car "on behalf of customer" - so what does that mean exactly? I assume it means we're helping someone sell it, so we're obviously taking a cut in the sale but you don't get any of the benefits of buying from a dealer like warranty?

Phil in Electric Autos sold our Ioniq. He took all the hassle out of it for us, dealing with time wasters, tyre kickers, doing test drives etc. Being an EV specialist, he was also able to offer other EVs, so somewhat unbiased.

He'd have been able to advise on trade in value, likely offer finance & has a good reputation to protect. A prospective buyer would be far more comfortable dropping €20k+ to him, than a random private seller.

He'd arguably also have far more reach, in terms of potential customers, with his history & reputation.

I don't think he adds crazy margins either, like main dealers, so I'd still value his service, even on factory warrantied cars.

Patser

Lantus wrote: »

Mocca and 2008 are not in the same space class as an octavia

Get the car right first in terms of meeting requirements and then see if an ev is acheivable and within budget.

Id4 comes close. Starting to see the turn now and good family cars are around the corner hopefully.

True enough about the size, although the rarely mentioned e-C4 would be similar to an Octavia.

But your point us right, the larger SUV type class that dominates Irish sales is only starting to go electric (Kia E-Niro only exception, probably best EV on market when price/size/range taken into account)

whatawaster

https://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/hyundai/ioniq/fpa/202101258326602?journey=Search

What about this 171 Ioniq, €18,950. I don't love White, but it ticks a lot of other boxes in terms of specs. Is it pricey for a 171?

peposhi

whatawaster wrote: »

https://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/hyundai/ioniq/fpa/202101258326602?journey=Search

What about this 171 Ioniq, €18,950. I don't love White, but it ticks a lot of other boxes in terms of specs. Is it pricey for a 171?

For EVs age does not matter as much as for ICE.
4 years iOniq will do you for a looong, long time.
As long as the car is in good mechanical order and not crashed or something, you’d get a good value out of it. White is a bitch to keep clean but I guess you need it not for the looks.

I second the opinion expressed above about Phil in Naas. He’d give you as honest as it can be answer to any question you have and perhaps land you a good deal on a car you want...

peposhi

whatawaster wrote: »

https://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/hyundai/ioniq/fpa/202101258326602?journey=Search

What about this 171 Ioniq, €18,950. I don't love White, but it ticks a lot of other boxes in terms of specs. Is it pricey for a 171?

I like that one. Very well presented so someone took time to get the message out... pretty low mileage too.

€2k more expensive than the Premium SE in black @ https://electriccarsales.ie/product/hyundai-ioniq-171/ (site looks in ribbons - https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/2017-hyundai-ioniq-28kwh/27207868 )?

Yes half the mileage, but that's a significant premium to pay for a lower specced car otherwise?

liamog

Deleted User wrote: »

€2k more expensive than the Premium SE in black @ https://electriccarsales.ie/product/hyundai-ioniq-171/ (site looks in ribbons - https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/2017-hyundai-ioniq-28kwh/27207868 )?

Yes half the mileage, but that's a significant premium to pay for a lower specced car otherwise?

50,000km probably accounts for a fair amount of the premium. I know with an EV there is less of a concern with mechanical wear but there is still an element of a car that has been used twice as much is going to depreciate more.

whatawaster

I'm now kind of tempted by the Nissan 0% offer on the new Leaf.

Black_Knight

whatawaster wrote: »

I'm now kind of tempted by the Nissan 0% offer on the new Leaf.

0% but you'll be paying for most the depreciation. Is there anything a new leaf gets you over a 2018 leaf 40 or ioniq?

Black_Knight

whatawaster wrote: »

https://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/hyundai/ioniq/fpa/202101258326602?journey=Search

What about this 171 Ioniq, €18,950. I don't love White, but it ticks a lot of other boxes in terms of specs. Is it pricey for a 171?

Pricey imo. Going with a dealer means nothing, as the car has plenty of warranty remaining from Hyundai.
18k from a dealer is probably ok. 17k private would be a good price. Tyres are cheap though, bloody dealers. I'd be getting a proper set on it at that price.

ELM327

whatawaster wrote: »

I'm now kind of tempted by the Nissan 0% offer on the new Leaf.

You'd be buying the last of the Blackberry phones as everyone else is getting their iPhone. Dont do it.


Its heavily discounted for a reason.

whatawaster

Black_Knight wrote: »

0% but you'll be paying for most the depreciation. Is there anything a new leaf gets you over a 2018 leaf 40 or ioniq?

Beyond warranty and some peace of mind, probably nothing . . .