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Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,530 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    That is complete nonsense and shows zero understanding of what the Gardai do. That is surprising because this has been explained on here many times.

    Gardai have received a complaint that Leo committed a criminal act. Gardai are inquiring as to whether a criminal act may have been committed. If the Gardai decide that no criminal act took place, the inquiries will end. If the Gardai decide that it is possible that a criminal act took place, they will decide whether it warrants investigation.

    That is as far as we have got, no further. Hyperbole and exaggeration of the situation is silly, in my opinion.

    Gardai are conducting a criminal investigation.

    No hyperbole just the facts.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,851 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Gardai are conducting a criminal investigation.

    No hyperbole just the facts.

    No matter how many times you repeat a lie, that doesn't make it true. I have set out the known facts in my post.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭Cute Hoor


    This criminal investigation by the Gardai is a waste of time, Leo would never do anything wrong never mind something criminal, unthinkable
    #ILoveLeo #LeonottheLeak #Leoloadsacraic #PopeLeoXIV


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,530 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    No matter how many times you repeat a lie, that doesn't make it true. I have set out the known facts in my post.

    How your defensiveness leads you to believe that the Gardai will not be investigating whether or not Varadkar committed a criminal act in order to adjudicate on the complaint is flaberghasting at this stage


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Nobotty


    McMurphy wrote: »
    Depends where you get your news from I suppose.

    Would you like me to link you to other hyperbolic headlines from the mail about the IRA perhaps?
    Does it make their hyperbolic reporting style fact? NO
    Its a British Rag with a particular dislike of Vradakar's Brexit stance
    Their British version think hes pm depending on what bone they're picking
    This isn't difficult.
    Gardai are investigating a complaint that Leo committed a criminal act. Therefore the Gardai are investigating whether Leo committed a criminal act. Therefore Leo is the subject of a criminal investigation.
    Whether Leo is a criminal or not is yet to be decided and won't be decided by the Gardai, but by a criminal trial where the court will prosecute the evidence as is his rights under the law.
    No they are investigating the veracity of the complaint first
    Innocent untill proven guilty right through the process

    Thats how it works
    I actually find the zealousness of your reply amusing,its almost like theres a need to attach the word criminal to vradakar while its still possible
    If anyone wants to continue to do that,I suspect the urgency the Gardaí are applying to the matter will allow them plenty of time to enjoy it some more :D
    Am fully expecting this to go nowhere


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,851 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    How your defensiveness leads you to believe that the Gardai will not be investigating whether or not Varadkar committed a criminal act in order to adjudicate on the complaint is flaberghasting at this stage

    It is good that you have effectively withdrawn the lie that there is currently a criminal investigation into Varadkar and that the possibility is in the future.

    Because of the fact that there is only a preliminary inquiry, which has taken you a long time to concede, there is nothing flabbergasting about holding the view that the initial garda inquiries will not lead to an investigation.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 556 ✭✭✭shtpEdthePlum


    I don't know if this was mentioned in the thread.

    https://extra.ie/2021/02/21/news/irish-news/leo-leak-investigation-developing-at-pace-but-helen-mcentee-was-kept-in-the-dark

    It would be great if there was an update on the case, because he definitely shouldn't remain in his position if it does transpire that there is a criminal aspect to his actions. Just from the point of view that he's in high office and clearly can't be trusted with sensitive information.

    It is true that he gave these confidential files to a friend who could compromise the Medical Union talks. What other damaging leaks is he engaging in currently to undermine other interests. You can understand why Drew Harris didn't inform McEntee, it's a conflict of interest as Leo is her superior currently and he's completely untrustworthy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,530 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Nobotty wrote: »
    Would you like me to link you to other hyperbolic headlines from the mail about the IRA perhaps?
    Does it make their hyperbolic reporting style fact? NO
    Its a British Rag with a particular dislike of Vradakar's Brexit stance
    Their British version think hes pm depending on what bone they're picking


    No they are investigating the veracity of the complaint first
    Innocent untill proven guilty right through the process

    Thats how it works
    I actually find the zealousness of your reply amusing,its almost like theres a need to attach the word criminal to vradakar while its still possible
    If anyone wants to continue to do that,I suspect the urgency the Gardaí are applying to the matter will allow them plenty of time to enjoy it some more :D
    Am fully expecting this to go nowhere

    This a joke now.
    To investigate the 'veracity' they have to investigate Varadkar Therefore he is the subject of a criminal investigation.
    As the Gardai don't decide on guilt we will have to wait on a court decision if the Gardai find evidence of a crime.

    No amount of twisting changes those facts.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Nobotty


    I don't know if this was mentioned in the thread.

    https://extra.ie/2021/02/21/news/irish-news/leo-leak-investigation-developing-at-pace-but-helen-mcentee-was-kept-in-the-dark

    It would be great if there was an update on the case, because he definitely shouldn't remain in his position if it does transpire that there is a criminal aspect to his actions. Just from the point of view that he's in high office and clearly can't be trusted with sensitive information.

    It is true that he gave these confidential files to a friend who could compromise the Medical Union talks. What other damaging leaks is he engaging in currently to undermine other interests. You can understand why Drew Harris didn't inform McEntee, it's a conflict of interest as he is her superior currently and he's completely untrustworthy.

    Its probably standard procedure,but you'd need evidence that a document was covered by the official secrets act and thats where Ive seen a problem since the start of this controversy
    Once its left the cabinet and widely distributed in the IMO,I dont see how it could be


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Nobotty


    This a joke now.
    To investigate the 'veracity' they have to investigate Varadkar Therefore he is the subject of a criminal investigation.
    As the Gardai don't decide on guilt we will have to wait on a court decision if the Gardai find evidence of a crime.

    No amount of twisting changes those facts.

    They Don't Francie at all actually
    What vradakar did with the document is known and admitted,no question or investigation there at all
    What they are investigating is if the document was covered by the official secrets act
    That will decide the veracity of the complaint


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    blanch152 wrote: »
    That is complete nonsense and shows zero understanding of what the Gardai do. That is surprising because this has been explained on here many times.

    Gardai have received a complaint that Leo committed a criminal act. Gardai are inquiring as to whether a criminal act may have been committed. If the Gardai decide that no criminal act took place, the inquiries will end. If the Gardai decide that it is possible that a criminal act took place, they will decide whether it warrants investigation.

    That is as far as we have got, no further. Hyperbole and exaggeration of the situation is silly, in my opinion.

    So you're saying the Garda are conducting an investigation regarding a criminal matter but its not a criminal investigation?
    Is the idea the suspect must be guilty before the investigation is given a title?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭Cute Hoor


    Nobotty wrote: »
    Would you like me to link you to other hyperbolic headlines from the mail about the IRA perhaps?

    Are the IRA involved in this now, it gets more complicated.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,530 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Nobotty wrote: »
    They Don't Francie at all actually
    What vradakar did with the document is known and admitted,no question or investigation there at all
    What they are investigating is if the document was covered by the official secrets act
    That will decide the veracity of the complaint

    The Gardai will not take anyone's word or statement made previously, they will look at the whole sequence of events again.

    Please stop now, the defensiveness because somebody used the words criminal and Varadkar in the same sentence is touching but pathetic at this stage.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Nobotty


    The Gardai will not take anyone's word or statement made previously, they will look at the whole sequence of events again.

    Please stop now, the defensiveness because somebody used the words criminal and Varadkar in the same sentence is touching but pathetic at this stage.

    Now now Francie,Im getting Dizzy :D
    No amount of 'there there dear' posts by those who think someone should be in prison will make it happen
    The only thing Gardaí have to determine is if the document was an official secret at the time
    Thats all they are investigating
    If it isn't,no crime and no persuance of Vradakar
    Ive said that from the start
    The only thing new Im expecting on this story is eventually a statement on the investigation being closed
    As this is now the vradakar epic thread,Ill check in to see how ye are getting on denigrating him from time to time
    Shouldnt be hard as most regular posters in this thread cant stand him or love him
    Its all a bit meh to me tbh


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,530 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Nobotty wrote: »
    Now now Francie,Im getting Dizzy :D
    No amount of 'there there dear' posts by those who think someone should be in prison will make it happen
    The only thing Gardaí have to determine is if the document was an official secret at the time
    Thats all they are investigating
    If it isn't,no crime and no persuance of Vradakar
    Ive said that from the start
    The only thing new Im expecting on this story is eventually a statement on the investigation being closed
    As this is now the vradakar epic thread,Ill check in to see how ye are getting on denigrating him from time to time
    Shouldnt be hard as most regular posters in this thread cant stand him or love him
    Its all a bit meh to me tbh

    More nonsense.
    Nobody is suggesting Varadkar has been found guilty of a crime.

    Gardai will not rely on statements made elsewhere, they will gather their own evidence, they always do. I was involved in a complaint made to my son's school. The school had investigated and taken statements, questioned pupils etc. The Gardai did it all again themselves.

    Get over it, it is a criminal invesigation that may or may not find evidence of criminality


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Nobotty


    More nonsense.
    Nobody is suggesting Varadkar has been found guilty of a crime.

    Gardai will not rely on statements made elsewhere, they will gather their own evidence, they always do. I was involved in a complaint made to my son's school. The school had investigated and taken statements, questioned pupils etc. The Gardai did it all again themselves.

    Get over it, it is a criminal invesigation that may or may not find evidence of criminality

    I suggest you get over it Francie
    Determining if a crime has happened in the first place is not a criminal investigation Period
    What we have here is an investigation into the veracity of an accusation brought to the Gardaí
    A criminal investigation is an investigation into an actual crime
    I'm surprised at the zealousy on this one,Vradakar would only be laughing at it
    Saving grace here is he probably isnt a boardsie


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,530 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Nobotty wrote: »
    I suggest you get over it Francie
    Determining if a crime has happened in the first place is not a criminal investigation Period
    What we have here is an investigation into the veracity of an accusation brought to the Gardaí
    A criminal investigation is an investigation into an actual crime
    I'm surprised at the zealousy on this one,Vradakar would only be laughing at it
    Saving grace here is he probably isnt a boardsie

    Internal Investigations Section – Investigations criminal incidents and possible suspicions of law breaking,

    https://www.garda.ie/en/about-us/organised-serious-crime/garda-national-bureau-of-criminal-investigation/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Nobotty wrote: »
    I suggest you get over it Francie
    Determining if a crime has happened in the first place is not a criminal investigation Period
    What we have here is an investigation into the veracity of an accusation brought to the Gardaí
    A criminal investigation is an investigation into an actual crime
    I'm surprised at the zealousy on this one,Vradakar would only be laughing at it
    Saving grace here is he probably isnt a boardsie

    Folk have been working very hard to dismiss the whole affair.
    Criminal or not he still did what he did.
    Is the angle to claim people expect Varadkar to be sent to Folsom Prison so when it doesn't happen ye can pretend he is vindicated? I call shenanigans on that in advance.

    giphy.gif


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Nobotty


    Internal Investigations Section – Investigations criminal incidents and possible suspicions of law breaking,

    https://www.garda.ie/en/about-us/organised-serious-crime/garda-national-bureau-of-criminal-investigation/

    Yeah and doesnt that describe exactly determining if the document was an official secret
    You've not added anything new there Francie
    The complaint arises around the status of the document
    The fascinating thing is,the complainant needs it to be a official secret,a moon high unachieveable bar I expect when its already released outside the cabinet
    C'est la vie


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Nobotty


    Folk have been working very hard to dismiss the whole affair.
    Criminal or not he still did what he did.
    Is the angle to claim people expect Varadkar to be sent to Folsom Prison so when it doesn't happen ye can pretend he is vindicated? I call shenanigans on that in advance.

    giphy.gif

    I think we were always agreed on what he did being not right
    Im just saying following the criminal angle so tightly in this thread smacks of unfair trial
    Its ott and wrong in my opinion even if it gives his haters a horn
    Having a horn wont change the status of the document


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,530 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Nobotty wrote: »
    Yeah and doesnt that describe exactly determining if the document was an official secret
    You've not added anything new there Francie
    The complaint arises around the status of the document
    The fascinating thing is,the complainant needs it to be a official secret,a moon high unachieveable bar I expect when its already released outside the cabinet
    C'est la vie

    Dear lord, we pivot again.

    The status of the document and the circumstances of it's release. The gardai will be required to investigate and take statements and examine them. They will not rely on what has been said elsewhere.

    Give it up Nobotty, you were caught out spoofing on what a criminal investigation is.

    Not particularly interested in the outcome f this, Varadkar has already admitted wrongdoing and the coalition partners circled the wagons to protect him. Damage done.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Nobotty


    Dear lord, we pivot again.

    The status of the document and the circumstances of it's release. The gardai will be required to investigate and take statements and examine them. They will not rely on what has been said elsewhere.

    Give it up Nobotty, you were caught out spoofing on what a criminal investigation is.

    Not particularly interested in the outcome f this, Varadkar has already admitted wrongdoing and the coalition partners circled the wagons to protect him. Damage done.

    Im spoofing? Says who,you?
    You're just shooting the messenger again because you dont like what he's saying
    I actually dont mind you doing that

    As regards wrong doing,we're on the same page there,always were
    I'm just disinterested in poofing the story into a criminal investigation when it isnt
    Some are,I get that
    To each their own


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,432 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    Cute Hoor do not post in this thread again


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,530 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Nobotty wrote: »
    Im spoofing? Says who,you?
    You're just shooting the messenger again because you dont like what he's saying
    I actually dont mind you doing that

    As regards wrong doing,we're on the same page there,always were
    I'm just disinterested in poofing the story into a criminal investigation when it isnt
    Some are,I get that
    To each their own

    Yes, as the Garda website I quoted showed, this was a complete spoof:
    Determining if a crime has happened in the first place is not a criminal investigation Period


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Nobotty


    Yes, as the Garda website I quoted showed, this was a complete spoof:

    Lol Francie,You know you didnt prove that at all,you just shot at the messenger pointing that out to you
    A complaint was made re the official secrets act,were you expecting the traffic corps to deal with it?
    No impact at all on the stages of investigation,first being the veracity,port of call being the documents status
    Nothing criminal untill that hurdle is leaped,as you probably know but dont want to admit it,itwont'I expect


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Nobotty wrote: »
    I think we were always agreed on what he did being not right
    Im just saying following the criminal angle so tightly in this thread smacks of unfair trial
    Its ott and wrong in my opinion even if it gives his haters a horn
    Having a horn wont change the status of the document

    Like most things FG, it's mostly people dismissing or denying criticism that drags these things on. Most of us haven't put as much creative effort into it.
    There's no trial. He's guilty of passing the confidential negotiation document.
    Whether it was a crime or not is all that's to be discovered. It won't mean anything either way. FF/FG/Green don't want to upset the pensions apple cart.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,530 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Nobotty wrote: »
    Lol Francie,You know you didnt prove that at all,you just shot at the messenger pointing that out to you
    A complaint was made re the official secrets act,were you expecting the traffic corps to deal with it?
    No impact at all on the stages of investigation,first being the veracity,port of call being the documents status
    Nothing criminal untill that hurdle is leaped,as you probably know but dont want to admit it,itwont'I expect

    Again wholly wrong...two complaints have been made, one alleging corruption and the other alleging he broke the OSA. Although Simon Harris made statements in the Dáil he still had to give one to the Gardai and so will Varadkar if deemed necessary, as I stated.

    Inform yourself properly Nobotty and then perhaps debate.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Nobotty


    Again wholly wrong...two complaints have been made, one alleging corruption and the other alleging he broke the OSA. Although Simon Harris made statements in the Dáil he still had to give one to the Gardai and so will Varadkar if deemed necessary, as I stated.

    Inform yourself properly Nobotty and then perhaps debate.
    Right back at you

    You dont know what SH's statement was about
    Its logical he gave a statement because he's the relevant minister, needed to verify the documument is or isnt cabinet exclusive
    As always veracity of the complaint first,which means discover the documents status


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,530 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Nobotty wrote: »
    Right back at you

    You dont know what SH's statement was about
    Its logical he gave a statement because he's the relevant minister, needed to verify the documument is or isnt cabinet exclusive
    As always veracity of the complaint first,which means discover the documents status

    I give up. As defensiveness goes you take the biscuit. You even breezed past the fact you didn't know there were 2 complaints, now you are parsing Harris's statement. :):)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Nobotty


    I give up. As defensiveness goes you take the biscuit. You even breezed past the fact you didn't know there were 2 complaints, now you are parsing Harris's statement. :):)

    There could be 22 complaints,it wouldnt make a halfworth of difference if they've no veracity
    Veracity first :)


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