M28 - Cork to Ringaskiddy [advance works ongoing; 2025 start; 2028 completion]

marno21 · 02-03-2021 1:28pm

It’s official. It’s going ahead

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40236191.html

€30m advance works package to commence shortly which will take 3 years. Construction to commence in 2024 with a 2027 opening

Chris_5339762 · 02-03-2021 1:45pm

Thats great news. Still amazed there are three years of advance works. And construction will slip to 2025 start, we all know how these things work!

AugustusMinimus · 02-03-2021 1:48pm

marno21 wrote: »

It’s official. It’s going ahead

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40236191.html

€30m advance works package to commence shortly which will take 3 years. Construction to commence in 2024 with a 2027 opening

Thank god. Finally some suitable infrastructure.

The other benefit is that the existing road can now be used as originally intended.

Baldilocks · 02-03-2021 2:04pm

Great news today!!

Very disappointing to see that the Examiner insist on pretending that the M28 steering group represent 10,000 people.
There is no factual basis for this. I very much doubt they would get 10,000 signatures on a petition. 200 people in the RPH is the best that they have been able to manage.

alanucc · 02-03-2021 2:05pm

Great news for Cork.

However it does always sadden me that so much energy and time is spent by passionate individuals opposing infrastructure projects such as this. It is such a pity that the same effort wasn't spent on influencing positive (and realistic) improvements to the scheme.

I think there are some deep problems with the system when a relatively small project with a clear common good can get held up like this. Imagine trying to get a major project like Rural Electrification through the planning system nowadays! I suppose we will see what happens with the Galway Bypass and the Shannon pipeline

DoubleJoe7 · 02-03-2021 2:26pm

Sad but expected news. Business interest wins out over the health and wellbeing of thousands of people. The steering group put as much as they could into it - and suffered attacks from nameless keyboard warriors over it - but there was no regard for the people of the area from TII who were determined to plough ahead whatever the consequences.

AugustusMinimus · 02-03-2021 2:36pm

DoubleJoe7 wrote: »

Sad but expected news. Business interest wins out over the health and wellbeing of thousands of people. The steering group put as much as they could into it - and suffered attacks from nameless keyboard warriors over it - but there was no regard for the people of the area from TII who were determined to plough ahead whatever the consequences.

It doesn’t help that the Steering Group came out with bold lies and pure hyperbole most of the time.

Where is the proof that 10,000 people support them. Complete unsubstantiated nonsense. Exploding lorries, ridiculous photo shops, nonsensical new route through Ballinhassig. Never have I seen such a fake news effort like it.

namloc1980 · 02-03-2021 2:37pm

DoubleJoe7 wrote: »

Sad but expected news. Business interest wins out over the health and wellbeing of thousands of people. The steering group put as much as they could into it - and suffered attacks from nameless keyboard warriors over it - but there was no regard for the people of the area from TII who were determined to plough ahead whatever the consequences.

On the contrary - there's been years and years of regard.

ianobrien · 02-03-2021 2:41pm

This will make some difference to Rochestown, Passage as well as Carrigaline and Ringaskiddy. Once Dunkettle is finished, I reckon the port will get a lot busier with Ro-Ro traffic.

Cookiemunster · 02-03-2021 2:50pm

Baldilocks wrote: »

Great news today!!

Very disappointing to see that the Examiner insist on pretending that the M28 steering group represent 10,000 people.
There is no factual basis for this. I very much doubt they would get 10,000 signatures on a petition. 200 people in the RPH is the best that they have been able to manage.

I'm fairness the article says that the steering group claims to represent 10,000 people. That's completely different to what you're implying.

DoubleJoe7 · 02-03-2021 2:51pm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

It doesn’t help that the Steering Group came out with bold lies and pure hyperbole most of the time.

Where is the proof that 10,000 people support them. Complete unsubstantiated nonsense. Exploding lorries, ridiculous photo shops, nonsensical new route through Ballinhassig. Never have I seen such a fake news effort like it.

They represented an area with 10,000 residents, the only place I saw people say the claimed to have 10,000 support was on this forum.

AugustusMinimus · 02-03-2021 2:54pm

DoubleJoe7 wrote: »

They represented an area with 10,000 residents, the only place I saw people say the claimed to have 10,000 support was on this forum.

This is on the Steering Groups website.

“ The Group consists of 45 members including Residents Associations and County Councillors, who represent over 10,000 residents in the Maryborough Hill, Rochestown, Carrs Hill, Bloomfield, Mount Oval, Clarke’s Hill and general Douglas area.”

https://altroutem28.com/about/

You are completely wrong.

Aontachtoir · 02-03-2021 2:56pm

I live in the area and am one of those 10,000 residents. The M28 Steering Group never represented me, and it was wrong of them to suggest to the media that they did. Even if the media came up with that suggestion completely unprompted (which seems very unlikely) it was wrong of the Steering Group to not refute an inaccurate figure.

Either way, thank goodness we no longer need to hear from them ever again. Roll on with the M28!

DoubleJoe7 · 02-03-2021 2:57pm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

This is on the Steering Groups website.

“ The Group consists of 45 members including Residents Associations and County Councillors, who represent over 10,000 residents in the Maryborough Hill, Rochestown, Carrs Hill, Bloomfield, Mount Oval, Clarke’s Hill and general Douglas area.”

https://altroutem28.com/about/

You are completely wrong.

Again, that doesn't say support.

All the TDs in my area represent me, they don't all have my support.

AugustusMinimus · 02-03-2021 2:58pm

DoubleJoe7 wrote: »

Again, that doesn't say support.

All the TDs in my area represent me, they don't all have my support.

Representing means that they are advocating on their behalf. That’s worse than supporting. You said they never claimed to represent 10,000 people merely the area which is clearly untrue.

DoubleJoe7 · 02-03-2021 3:05pm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Representing means that they are advocating on their behalf. That’s worse than supporting. You said they never claimed to represent 10,000 people merely the area which is clearly untrue.

I replied to your original response so in fairness I'll address the updated version.

I said they never claimed to have the support of 10,000 people. They didn't.

They were the only representative group from the area to make a submission on this. There were no groups in the area - either already established community groups or newly formed in response to the proposal - who were in favour of the motorway.

Therefore they were the only group representative of the area of 10,000 people to submit in this process.

This inference that the Steering Group was some minority voice going against the grain just isn't true. I live in the area and there is widespread concern about this, as seen by the large attendances at meetings in the Rochestown Park Hotel.

riddlinrussell · 02-03-2021 3:08pm

DoubleJoe7 wrote: »

Again, that doesn't say support.

All the TDs in my area represent me, they don't all have my support.

All the TD's in your area were voted in by (thoretically) all 10,000 people, with those that 'represent' the most people becoming the elected TD's.

The M28 group shouldn't claim to 'represent' 10,000 people unless they have proof of that many people in favour of their project.

Great to hear this is going ahead, I hope there will be accompanying walking and cycling options planned to accompany the changes!

Treehelpplease · 02-03-2021 3:09pm

DoubleJoe7 wrote: »

I replied to your original response so in fairness I'll address the updated version.

I said they never claimed to have the support of 10,000 people. They didn't.

They were the only representative group from the area to make a submission on this. There were no groups in the area - either already established community groups or newly formed in response to the proposal - who were in favour of the motorway.

Therefore they were the only group representative of the area of 10,000 people to submit in this process.

This inference that the Steering Group was some minority voice going against the grain just isn't true. I live in the area and there is widespread concern about this, as seen by the large attendances at meetings in the Rochestown Park Hotel.

Anecdotal evidence, I live in the area (400 meters away) and am good friends with people right next to the road. i'm in full support and I don't know anyone opposing it for reasons other than the slip to the link taking a few minutes longer now off maryborough hill

AugustusMinimus · 02-03-2021 3:13pm

DoubleJoe7 wrote: »

I replied to your original response so in fairness I'll address the updated version.

I said they never claimed to have the support of 10,000 people. They didn't.

They were the only representative group from the area to make a submission on this. There were no groups in the area - either already established community groups or newly formed in response to the proposal - who were in favour of the motorway.

Therefore they were the only group representative of the area of 10,000 people to submit in this process.

This inference that the Steering Group was some minority voice going against the grain just isn't true. I live in the area and there is widespread concern about this, as seen by the large attendances at meetings in the Rochestown Park Hotel.

You should really learn what “represents” means. They have never proven to represent 10,000 people in the area and saying so is factually incorrect with providing proof of the claim.

Definition: be entitled or appointed to act or speak for (someone), especially in an official capacity.

Are you actually saying the group is entitled or have been appointed to act for all 10,000 people in that are. Are you really saying that?

AugustusMinimus · 02-03-2021 3:14pm

I also live the area and I for one am not represented by these people and none of my neighbours have ever given the opinion that they are against this road.

DoubleJoe7 · 02-03-2021 3:15pm

Treehelpplease wrote: »

Anecdotal evidence, I live in the area (400 meters away) and am good friends with people right next to the road. i'm in full support and I don't know anyone opposing it for reasons other than the slip to the link taking a few minutes longer now off maryborough hill

Where was this local support during the process? Where were the local proponents when the meetings were in the RPH?

ianobrien · 02-03-2021 3:16pm

DoubleJoe7 wrote: »

Business interest wins out over the health and wellbeing of thousands of people.

Think about the health and wellbeing with all the emissions from vehicles idling while being stuck in traffic and from the accidents that have occurred.

DoubleJoe7 wrote: »

The steering group put as much as they could into it - and suffered attacks from nameless keyboard warriors over it - but there was no regard for the people of the area from TII who were determined to plough ahead whatever the consequences.

There was plenty of time for people to put in their tuppence worth. Wasn't some of the design changed at Mt Oval after the public consultation? Wasn't both sides considered and the decision made for the better good? If you were stuck in traffic going or coming from Carrigaline or Ringaskiddy every day you may have a different view.

AugustusMinimus · 02-03-2021 3:17pm

DoubleJoe7 wrote: »

Where was this local support during the process? Where were the local proponents when the meetings were in the RPH?

You’re full of straw mans aren’t you. There was no need to set up a pro M28 organisation as no such court action was required to advance the road. The anti faction of course had to fund raise etc to try to stop it.

uptherebels · 02-03-2021 3:21pm

DoubleJoe7 wrote: »

Sad but expected news. Business interest wins out over the health and wellbeing of thousands of people. The steering group put as much as they could into it - and suffered attacks from nameless keyboard warriors over it - but there was no regard for the people of the area from TII who were determined to plough ahead whatever the consequences.

You left out the most important issue, their perceived property prices

BelfastVanMan · 02-03-2021 3:21pm

uptherebels wrote: »

You left out the most important issue, their perceived property prices

They might go up, now.. better road access?

DoubleJoe7 · 02-03-2021 3:22pm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

You’re full of straw mans aren’t you. There was no need to set up a pro M28 organisation as no such court action was required to advance the road. The anti faction of course had to fund raise etc to try to stop it.

A bit rich of you to accuse me of straw man arguments given you've yet to substantiate the claim the group said they had the support of 10,000 people.

The only place I've seen or heard claims of local support for the road is on this thread. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I'm saying there is literally zero evidence in the public domain that people who actually live in the area have shown support for the road.

If the steering group were so unrepresentative then why was there no local pushback against them and how did they manage to fundraise so much?

DoubleJoe7 · 02-03-2021 3:23pm

uptherebels wrote: »

You left out the most important issue, their perceived property prices

But sure given this is such wonderful news, it could only be a good thing for property prices, right? :rolleyes:

AugustusMinimus · 02-03-2021 3:24pm

DoubleJoe7 wrote: »

A bit rich of you to accuse me of straw man arguments given you've yet to substantiate the claim the group said they had the support of 10,000 people.

The only place I've seen or heard claims of local support for the road is on this thread. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I'm saying there is literally zero evidence in the public domain that people who actually live in the area have shown support for the road.

If the steering group were so unrepresentative then why was there no local pushback against them and how did they manage to fundraise so much?

How could the steering group represent the 10,000 people if the people didn’t support them. Honestly?

Cookiemunster · 02-03-2021 3:24pm

DoubleJoe7 wrote: »

A bit rich of you to accuse me of straw man arguments given you've yet to substantiate the claim the group said they had the support of 10,000 people.

The only place I've seen or heard claims of local support for the road is on this thread. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I'm saying there is literally zero evidence in the public domain that people who actually live in the area have shown support for the road.

If the steering group were so unrepresentative then why was there no local pushback against them and how did they manage to fundraise so much?

Now that's a question a lot of people would like answered.

riddlinrussell · 02-03-2021 3:25pm

DoubleJoe7 wrote: »

A bit rich of you to accuse me of straw man arguments given you've yet to substantiate the claim the group said they had the support of 10,000 people.

The only place I've seen or heard claims of local support for the road is on this thread. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I'm saying there is literally zero evidence in the public domain that people who actually live in the area have shown support for the road.

If the steering group were so unrepresentative then why was there no local pushback against them and how did they manage to fundraise so much?

From https://altroutem28.com/about/ (Emphasis Mine)

The M28 Steering Group was assembled in October 2015 in response to the proposed plans to upgrade the existing N28 Ringaskiddy to Cork road to Motorway status.

The Group consists of 45 members including Residents Associations and County Councillors, who represent over 10,000 residents in the Maryborough Hill, Rochestown, Carrs Hill, Bloomfield, Mount Oval, Clarke’s Hill and general Douglas area.

They explicitly say they represent 10,000 residents, not that the area has 10,000 residents or even that 10,000 residents will be effected.

Treehelpplease · 02-03-2021 3:25pm

why would a three lane road being made four lanes negatively impact property prices? especially when those close enough to the road to be directly affected already suffer from noise and have for 2/3 decades

DoubleJoe7 · 02-03-2021 3:28pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Now that's a question a lot of people would like answered.

It's not that difficult to answer - they had substantial support in the area. They packed out the RPH on more than one occasion.

uptherebels · 02-03-2021 3:32pm

DoubleJoe7 wrote: »

But sure given this is such wonderful news, it could only be a good thing for property prices, right? :rolleyes:

Sure why would nimbys be concerned about the value of their home. Nevermind it increasing :rolleyes:

Hibernicis · 02-03-2021 3:42pm

DoubleJoe7 wrote: »

A bit rich of you to accuse me of straw man arguments given you've yet to substantiate the claim the group said they had the support of 10,000 people.

The only place I've seen or heard claims of local support for the road is on this thread. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I'm saying there is literally zero evidence in the public domain that people who actually live in the area have shown support for the road.

Are you Justin Gerard Harrington in disguise? You certainly seem to share his listening skills.

DoubleJoe7 wrote: »

If the steering group were so unrepresentative then why was there no local pushback against them and how did they manage to fundraise so much?

Care to enlighten us on exactly how much was raised ? And from what sources ?

Hibernicis · 02-03-2021 3:45pm

marno21 wrote: »

It’s official. It’s going ahead

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40236191.html

€30m advance works package to commence shortly which will take 3 years. Construction to commence in 2024 with a 2027 opening

This is really great news and delighted to have been proved wrong about the possibility of this making it to the Supreme Court and wasting another two years.

DoubleJoe7 · 02-03-2021 3:46pm

DoubleJoe7 · 02-03-2021 3:49pm

Hibernicis wrote: »

Are you Justin Gerard Harrington in disguise? You certainly seem to share his listening skills.

No I'm not, and I'm not on the Steering Group either, but I'm appreaciative of their efforts. Thanks for proving my earlier point about some of the guff they've put up with online though.

Care to enlighten us on exactly how much was raised ? And from what sources ?

How much? I don't know - enough to mount a lengthy and expensive legal challenge, so I'd say a bit. And the source was the community, they sought donations down at the meetings in the RPH.

LockedBoy · 02-03-2021 3:56pm

Never quite understood the argument about property prices going down because of the road changes. Surely better roads and less congestion would increase prices - compared to the current set up. The noise from the existing road is already there, adding another lane isnt going to increase noise levels significantly. And sure we will probably all be driving EVs by the time the road actually opens, seems like a win-win situation all around. Glad they can finally get going on it!

marno21 · 02-03-2021 3:56pm

MOD:

By my reckoning it’s now 5 times the M28 Steering Group has failed in their attempts to block this project. The public consultation on the routing (which did result in changes such as Mount Oval slip being retained), An Bord Pleanala, Judicial Review at the High Court, Court of Appeal and now the Supreme Court. What started as an anti motorway campaign finished as an appeal to the highest court in the land on a technicality related to a quarry nowhere far from the area that the initial appeal came from. And the end of the road with regards to that has been reached.

For this reason, I do think that the time for lengthy debates about issues that have been debated to death since 2016 and issues that have been addressed in detail by Cork County Council, An Bord Pleanala and now the judiciary is over. We really don’t need more debate about an issue that can be considered case closed. The motorway is going ahead as planned, just 4 years later than the original plan had envisaged.

The debate on here is beginning to get uncivil again and at this stage it all seems futile to me. I am happy to discuss differing opinions on this post either by reporting the post or via PM.

I think it’s time we moved on and started discussion about the project being built on this thread rather than redebating stuff that was decided upon years ago.

Hibernicis · 02-03-2021 4:25pm

marno21 wrote: »

MOD:
I think it’s time we moved on and started discussion about the project being built on this thread rather than redebating stuff that was decided upon years ago.

Here Here. Let’s celebrate and salivate at the prospect of this becoming a construction thread with photographs, drone shots and newsletter updates.

neddynasty · 02-03-2021 4:47pm

So what's the next step?
Does this go out to tender now?

Reputable Rog · 02-03-2021 4:57pm

neddynasty wrote: »

So what's the next step?
Does this go out to tender now?

Whic,the thread or the road?

Scooby Reggie do · 02-03-2021 5:01pm

This is fantastic news for the whole region. As someone who drives the roads in this area daily (Ballygarvan, Carrigaline, Shanbally), they’re dangerous and not fit for purpose.

marno21 · 02-03-2021 5:02pm

neddynasty wrote: »

So what's the next step?
Does this go out to tender now?

3 years of advance works.

The tender process will commence in late 2022/early 2023

cgcsb · 02-03-2021 5:07pm

No mention of a toll so it'll quickly become a car commuter route for Carrigaline and no new bus or rail measures are proposed.

Rebelbrowser · 02-03-2021 5:16pm

Treehelpplease wrote: »

Anecdotal evidence, I live in the area (400 meters away) and am good friends with people right next to the road. i'm in full support and I don't know anyone opposing it for reasons other than the slip to the link taking a few minutes longer now off maryborough hill

Same here on all counts.

Sorry - only saw Marno's post after posting this and can't find a way to delete! Read posts sequentially and posted on reading the one above from earlier....

major interest · 02-03-2021 6:40pm

Great news. This will also benefit the city centre as it facilitates the full movement of port operations to ringaskiddy and the redevelopment of those key land banks in the city.

Aontachtoir · 02-03-2021 6:41pm

cgcsb wrote: »

No mention of a toll so it'll quickly become a car commuter route for Carrigaline and no new bus or rail measures are proposed.

A toll on 12 km of motorway? Sure who would use it then when the old road is still there?

Carrigaline and Ringaskiddy are well-connected to Douglas and the city with bus routes. The motorway will free up those routes by taking commuter and heavy goods traffic off the old N28 which the buses will continue to use, making bus services more reliable and speedier.

Markcheese · 02-03-2021 6:59pm

Aontachtoir wrote: »

A toll on 12 km of motorway? Sure who would use it then when the old road is still there?

Carrigaline and Ringaskiddy are well-connected to Douglas and the city with bus routes. The motorway will free up those routes by taking commuter and heavy goods traffic off the old N28 which the buses will continue to use, making bus services more reliable and speedier.

Actually , you'd hope someone would run a carragline or ringaskiddy express ( the quicker the bus is the more frequent it can be and that'll get more passengers on to it ) , straight In the motorway ,to the city ,

EnzoScifo · 02-03-2021 7:23pm

Markcheese wrote: »

Actually , you'd hope someone would run a carragline or ringaskiddy express ( the quicker the bus is the more frequent it can be and that'll get more passengers on to it ) , straight In the motorway ,to the city ,

No reason why the 220x couldn't use the M28

M28 - Cork to Ringaskiddy [advance works ongoing; 2025 start; 2028 completion]

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