6 Nations TV contract

Digifriendly · 02-03-2021 10:19am #1

Present deal ends with this year's tournament.

Interesting article in Wales Online which suggests Sky are favourites and there can be no joint deal e.g. BBC/ITV this time around.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/everything-know-six-nations-tv-17848025
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duffman13 · 02-03-2021 10:24am

Digifriendly wrote: »

Present deal ends with this year's tournament.

Interesting article in Wales Online which suggests Sky are favourites and there can be no joint deal e.g. BBC/ITV this time around.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/everything-know-six-nations-tv-17848025
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Personally think pay tv is the death nail in the 6 nations to be honest. Not sure what viewing figures are like but it picks up and awful lot of casual fans due to its availability FTA. Money talks however and that money, given the impact on finances of Covid, is too big to turn down

The Inbetween is mine · 02-03-2021 10:25am

Sky had exclusive rights before... but it didn't include Ireland home games ..it could go back to that scenario again I guess...not ideal but money talks in these troubled times

icdg · 02-03-2021 10:30am

The Times (of London) had a article which more broadly dealt with the question of rugby union TV rights but had a similar slant re the Six Nations - that Sky would be going strongly for this one. Deadline for bids apparently closed yesterday.

Could be an element of talking up the value, which seems to have become a common tactic for sporting organisations these days. Barely a rights sale goes by that Amazon isn’t mentioned, sometimes in connection with stuff they are barely interested in.

Sky are more or less out of rugby now except the Lions, a process which began a few years ago when they replaced their numbered channels with sports themed ones but there was no place for a Sky Sports Rugby. So will they do an about turn? Maybe, it’s the second most popular team sport in the U.K. But I think there’ll be big political resistance on both sides of the Irish Sea to such a deal being done. Virgin has just walked away from the Champions League rights and they may have money to try and retain these.

icdg · 02-03-2021 10:32am

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

Sky had exclusive rights before... but it didn't include Ireland home games ..it could go back to that scenario again I guess...not ideal but money talks in these troubled times

As I recall it was a solo deal done with Sky for England home games about 20 years ago and it nearly got England kicked out of the tournament. The other unions weren’t part of it.

OldRio · 02-03-2021 11:28am

Unfortunately I see short term gains, financially speaking, winning over long term objectives (Growing the game)

Sad really.
I for one do not have Sky and will not get Sky. Watching the 5 Nations during these months of the year got me hooked on Rugby. Live on terrestrial TV in the 60s and 70s. Black and white TV. Bill McLarens voice. The mud. The scrum. The wonderful Welsh backs. The occasional victory for Ireland.
Memorys.

bayern · 02-03-2021 11:33am

utter disaster.

Former Former Former · 02-03-2021 11:56am

That WalesOnline article is from a YEAR AGO.

awec · 02-03-2021 12:00pm

Former Former Former wrote: »

That WalesOnline article is from a YEAR AGO.

I am pretty sure the current rights expire this year though.

Digifriendly · 02-03-2021 12:04pm

Apologies re the article being old hat. However the bids for the next 6N contract were submitted yesterday and that is primarily why I began this thread. Rumours have it that Sky or Amazon may well win the rights.

As pointed out Sky's only previuos deal included only England's home games and their away fixture against France. BBC showed all other games live while ITV had highlights of matches Sky showed live. IIRC this deal lasted from 1997 - 2002 but only began in autumn of 1997 with England's autumn internationals so didn't include the 1997 5 Nations which was shown entirely by BBC. IMHO it was a disaster and I well remember RTE were showing live one match while their panellists were watching with one eye the other match England vs Ireland in the studio and commenting on it at HT and FT as RTE did not have rights to show the Ireland game.

awec · 02-03-2021 12:06pm

Wasn't there threats before from one of the governments that if the 6N went down this route they'd put the games on the protected list?

Butson · 02-03-2021 12:16pm

Former Former Former wrote: »

That WalesOnline article is from a YEAR AGO.

That makes it even a bigger chance of going to Sky or Amazon.
Revenues have fallen off a cliff with the pandemic.

Former Former Former · 02-03-2021 12:20pm

Well, I think the rules have changed with a) Covid and its enormous financial drain and b) the yet-to-be-confirmed emergence of CVC as a shareholder in the 6N.

I would say the best we can hope for is some sort of hybrid of FTA and pay TV.

awec · 02-03-2021 12:45pm

The whole "joint bids are disallowed" tactic is basically to make it impossible for FTA to be the highest bidder.

Sky will want exclusivity so I don't see how a hybrid approach would work.

thomond2006 · 02-03-2021 12:48pm

I don't mind pay TV vs FTA if the pay tv option is reasonable (e.g. Sky Sports has an initial offer of 19.50 per month via Now TV).

It would be good if the pay broadcasters could scale up to 4k broadcasting for that extra oomph, but I don't know how realistic that is.

Butson · 02-03-2021 1:04pm

I think what might happen is that Sky get the rights, but they put out some of the lesser games on their basic channels like Sky Sports Mix or Sky One.
They did that with the GAA this year and the odd Premier League game.

thomond2006 · 02-03-2021 1:05pm

Butson wrote: »

I think what might happen is that Sky get the rights, but they put out some of the lesser games on their basic channels like Sky Sports Mix or Sky One.
They did that with the GAA this year and the odd Premier League game.

I can't see them doing that for a competition that has 3 games on a weekend.

Podge_irl · 02-03-2021 1:27pm

awec wrote: »

The whole "joint bids are disallowed" tactic is basically to make it impossible for FTA to be the highest bidder.

Sky will want exclusivity so I don't see how a hybrid approach would work.

Yeah, I can't see any reasonable excuse for banning them bar just making it easier to go to Pay TV.

I am somewhat resigned to this happening, but it seems like an utterly stupid and short-termist move.

bilston · 02-03-2021 2:54pm

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

Sky had exclusive rights before... but it didn't include Ireland home games ..it could go back to that scenario again I guess...not ideal but money talks in these troubled times

They had England home matches at the end of the 90s/early 00s.

Personally I don't mind Sky getting the rights as I have Sky and Sky will.cover it very well.

But there is an obvious danger here that casual fans will lose interest in the 6Ns. The 6Ns need to take all that into consideration.

There is no easy answer here, rugby needs cash now, but short term financial gain could lead to long term problems.

bilston · 02-03-2021 2:58pm

A hybrid deal is ideal. If even one match per round was on FTA that would go a long way to keeping the casual viewer interested. But Sky aren't going to pay anywhere near as much unless they have exclusive rights.

Squidgy Black · 02-03-2021 3:37pm

awec wrote: »

Wasn't there threats before from one of the governments that if the 6N went down this route they'd put the games on the protected list?

Yeah Irish government threatened to stop the CVC deal originally because of it, and there was talk of legislation being amended to classify the 6N games as broadcasts that had to be shown FTA, but I don't think anything was done about it in the end.

Cookiemunster · 02-03-2021 4:03pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Yeah Irish government threatened to stop the CVC deal originally because of it, and there was talk of legislation being amended to classify the 6N games as broadcasts that had to be shown FTA, but I don't think anything was done about it in the end.

AFAIK the IRFU doesn't want the 6N on the list. It reduces the options and the price that can be gotten for the TV rights. The government took those views into account when deciding what to do.

awec · 02-03-2021 4:29pm

bilston wrote: »

A hybrid deal is ideal. If even one match per round was on FTA that would go a long way to keeping the casual viewer interested. But Sky aren't going to pay anywhere near as much unless they have exclusive rights.

There is only 3 games per round, it's not like the Champions Cup where there are loads of games.

Digifriendly · 02-03-2021 4:33pm

awec wrote: »

The whole "joint bids are disallowed" tactic is basically to make it impossible for FTA to be the highest bidder.

Sky will want exclusivity so I don't see how a hybrid approach would work.

Have been informed on another forum that joint bids are now permitted.

jacothelad · 03-03-2021 6:43pm

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

Sky had exclusive rights before... but it didn't include Ireland home games ..it could go back to that scenario again I guess...not ideal but money talks in these troubled times

I think Sky had the rights to England's home games only.

Digifriendly · 03-03-2021 6:50pm

jacothelad wrote: »

I think Sky had the rights to England's home games only.

As I pointed out in an earlier post (post #10) Sky had exclusivity to live coverage of England's home games (both Ai's and 5N/6N) and their away fixture against France from autumn 1997 to spring 2002.

bilston · 03-03-2021 8:37pm

It just occurred to me that the Premier League TV rights are out to tender soon. Think I read a decision is expected in May, that is bound to be a priority for Sky and BT, and even Amazon, who have dipped their toes in the Premier League market already. I wonder if that would have an impact on bids for the 6Ns rights?

Any thoughts Digifriendly?

Digifriendly · 03-03-2021 10:05pm

bilston wrote: »

It just occurred to me that the Premier League TV rights are out to tender soon. Think I read a decision is expected in May, that is bound to be a priority for Sky and BT, and even Amazon, who have dipped their toes in the Premier League market already. I wonder if that would have an impact on bids for the 6Ns rights?

Any thoughts Digifriendly?

I may be completely wrong here but I don't think rugby is high on Sky's priority list at present. Soccer is their main focus. If Amazon are as wealthy as we think they are they could win the 6N contract but that is only a hunch I have and nothing more.

awec · 03-03-2021 10:37pm

Digifriendly wrote: »

I may be completely wrong here but I don't think rugby is high on Sky's priority list at present. Soccer is their main focus. If Amazon are as wealthy as we think they are they could win the 6N contract but that is only a hunch I have and nothing more.

If Amazon bid they'd need to team up with BT or Sky to get their coverage on satellite so they can sell it to pubs etc.

I'd be amazed if Amazon went for it.

kildare lad · 04-03-2021 12:27am

They'll lose a huge amount of people watching rugby if they decided to charge for it. Would they lose lots of sponsors as there would be less people watching the games . As usual it's billionaires not happy with the amount of money they have and wanna squeeze more out of the ordinary joe .

icdg · 04-03-2021 8:27am

awec wrote: »

If Amazon bid they'd need to team up with BT or Sky to get their coverage on satellite so they can sell it to pubs etc.

I'd be amazed if Amazon went for it.

They did exactly that for the Premier League (with BT). I wouldn’t count that as necessarily an obstacle but I don’t think it’ll be Amazon for different reasons.

irishbucsfan · 04-03-2021 9:02am

Digifriendly wrote: »

I may be completely wrong here but I don't think rugby is high on Sky's priority list at present. Soccer is their main focus. If Amazon are as wealthy as we think they are they could win the 6N contract but that is only a hunch I have and nothing more.

Well I don't know how wealthy you think they are, but they have roughly $80bn in cash on hand!

I don't think having the money available is the obstacle to Amazon buying these rights.

Digifriendly · 04-03-2021 9:27am

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well I don't know how wealthy you think they are, but they have roughly $80bn in cash on hand!

I don't think having the money available is the obstacle to Amazon buying these rights.

In your view what is the obstactle?

ec18 · 04-03-2021 9:34am

probably rights to broadcast across europe. With the nations cup the rights were only for english based prime viewers, especially now that the uk is a third country

icdg · 04-03-2021 11:46am

I just don’t think it’s the type of rights Amazon are interested in. They tend to go for stuff that’s opportunistic, or that’s tailor made for them (as the Premier League package they won effectively was) or that doesn’t require them to do host broadcaster duties. I was surprised when they got involved with the Nations Cup but it came right in their peak sales period and was a one-off opportunity grab.

If this goes to pay TV I am almost certain it will be Sky. Do not rule out an arrangement where Sky gets exclusive U.K. rights and shared rights in ROI where RTÉ or VMTV could show Ireland games on an non exclusive basis and Sky would have the rest of the fixtures.

irishbucsfan · 04-03-2021 11:46am

Digifriendly wrote: »

In your view what is the obstactle?

Absolutely no idea!

I’d imagine there are considerable operational overheads to managing relationships with all the broadcasters and the threat of these being forced to FTA in any given country etc.

bilston · 04-03-2021 12:43pm

ec18 wrote: »

probably rights to broadcast across europe. With the nations cup the rights were only for english based prime viewers, especially now that the uk is a third country

UK viewers, not English. I watched it on Prime in Northern Ireland.

sebdavis · 05-03-2021 9:30am

I thought the plan was to have it on pay per view but some games(Maybe 1) per weekend would be on FTA.
The government before had mentioned about the games but that was because some TD wanted to see a Leinster or Munster match in HC and couldn't watch it on RTE. Was confused why it wasn't, then was told RTE waste their entire budget on terrible TV presenters

With Covid and the money the unions are losing this will move to pay per view. Hopefully Sky get it, can't stand BT. WOuld be good then if Sky get Pro14

Digifriendly · 05-03-2021 10:18am

I maybe wrong but I get the feeling here that those on this forum who live in the south of Ireland definitely don't want Amazon to get this contract whereas here in the north Amazon winning the rights wouldn't be as big an issue as we can subscribe to it and at present £7.99 a month is a reasonably fair price.

The Inbetween is mine · 05-03-2021 10:25am

Digifriendly wrote: »

I maybe wrong but I get the feeling here that those on this forum who live in the south of Ireland definitely don't want Amazon to get this contract whereas here in the north Amazon winning the rights wouldn't be as big an issue as we can subscribe to it and at present £7.99 a month is a reasonably fair price.

It can be done in the south also..quite a few did it for the PL footie

kildare lad · 05-03-2021 10:26am

Digifriendly wrote: »

I maybe wrong but I get the feeling here that those on this forum who live in the south of Ireland definitely don't want Amazon to get this contract whereas here in the north Amazon winning the rights wouldn't be as big an issue as we can subscribe to it and at present £7.99 a month is a reasonably fair price.

That's not an unreasonable amount for most but the fact of matter is , if you put rugby behind a paywall it'll reduce the growth of the game . Less viewership leads to less people following it which in turn will lead to less participation.

irelandrover · 05-03-2021 10:40am

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

It can be done in the south also..quite a few did it for the PL footie

Its a lot more difficult now after Brexit. Since Brexit prime cant be watched in Ireland unless you have a very good VPN, because amazon block a lot of teh VPNs. before as long as your account was a british account you could watch it in Ireland.

Podge_irl · 05-03-2021 10:40am

Digifriendly wrote: »

I maybe wrong but I get the feeling here that those on this forum who live in the south of Ireland definitely don't want Amazon to get this contract whereas here in the north Amazon winning the rights wouldn't be as big an issue as we can subscribe to it and at present £7.99 a month is a reasonably fair price.

Its a mild nightmare for me in Europe. I can get ITV/BBC legally no bother, but for the Autumn games they were unavailable on Prime where I am. So basically couldn't legally watch them anywhere.

irelandrover · 05-03-2021 10:42am

Podge_irl wrote: »

Its a mild nightmare for me in Europe. I can get ITV/BBC legally no bother, but for the Autumn games they were unavailable on Prime where I am. So basically couldn't legally watch them anywhere.

I've given up on trying to legally watch games.

I need a subscription to pro14 tv, ziggo sports for the 6 nations, no idea how to get champions cup.

so €25 a month and champions cup is not included.

kildare lad · 05-03-2021 10:42am

Podge_irl wrote: »

Its a mild nightmare for me in Europe. I can get ITV/BBC legally no bother, but for the Autumn games they were unavailable on Prime where I am. So basically couldn't legally watch them anywhere.

You didn't miss much in fairness

sebdavis · 05-03-2021 12:44pm

Digifriendly wrote: »

I maybe wrong but I get the feeling here that those on this forum who live in the south of Ireland definitely don't want Amazon to get this contract whereas here in the north Amazon winning the rights wouldn't be as big an issue as we can subscribe to it and at present £7.99 a month is a reasonably fair price.

Amazon is perfect in the South as well for me anyway

Digifriendly · 05-03-2021 1:51pm

sebdavis wrote: »

Amazon is perfect in the South as well for me anyway

Out of interest how do you receive it?

icdg · 05-03-2021 2:03pm

Amazon Prime Video is available here and has been for years, both as a stand-alone option and as part of a (U.K. or otherwise) Prime subscription.

Unlike Netflix, Disney+, and virtually every other service, Irish Prime Video is completely separate from U.K. Prime Video and doesn’t have the same catalogue or indeed sports rights. Indeed for a long time the catalogue was markedly inferior - that is not really the case now. Still, due to this, a lot of people (on Boards at any rate) had used various workarounds to subscribe to U.K. Prime Video. Amazon were extraordinarily happy to facilitate this (even going so far as to facilitate moving people from Ireland to U.K. on relatively little proof of U.K. residence) but this all came crashing to an end with Brexit and the U.K. leaving the Portability Regulation which allowed you to take your home country streaming content abroad. (Note: most other implementations of the Regulation had restrictions requiring you to “go home” after a certain period or lose access. Amazon never required this).

Irish Prime Video has relatively little sports rights. The two main ones are ATP and WTA tennis and (non exclusive and live only) NFL Thursday Night Football. No Premier League and certainly no Autumn Nations Cup. Both by pure coincidence went to Premier Sports.

Digifriendly · 05-03-2021 9:40pm

icdg wrote: »

Amazon Prime Video is available here and has been for years, both as a stand-alone option and as part of a (U.K. or otherwise) Prime subscription.

Unlike Netflix, Disney+, and virtually every other service, Irish Prime Video is completely separate from U.K. Prime Video and doesn’t have the same catalogue or indeed sports rights. Indeed for a long time the catalogue was markedly inferior - that is not really the case now. Still, due to this, a lot of people (on Boards at any rate) had used various workarounds to subscribe to U.K. Prime Video. Amazon were extraordinarily happy to facilitate this (even going so far as to facilitate moving people from Ireland to U.K. on relatively little proof of U.K. residence) but this all came crashing to an end with Brexit and the U.K. leaving the Portability Regulation which allowed you to take your home country streaming content abroad. (Note: most other implementations of the Regulation had restrictions requiring you to “go home” after a certain period or lose access. Amazon never required this).

Irish Prime Video has relatively little sports rights. The two main ones are ATP and WTA tennis and (non exclusive and live only) NFL Thursday Night Football. No Premier League and certainly no Autumn Nations Cup. Both by pure coincidence went to Premier Sports.

Thank you for very clear explanation.
Just one more question.
Why is Premier Sports Pro 14 coverage geo blocked in ROI?

awec · 05-03-2021 9:46pm

Digifriendly wrote: »

Thank you for very clear explanation.
Just one more question.
Why is Premier Sports Pro 14 coverage geo blocked in ROI?

Cause Premier Sports is included in Sky's Sports Extra bundle, and Eir have the exclusive rights to the ProWhatever here.

If it wasn't geoblocked people would be able to watch the prowhatever without an eir sub.

icdg · 05-03-2021 9:59pm

awec wrote: »

Cause Premier Sports is included in Sky's Sports Extra bundle, and Eir have the exclusive rights to the ProWhatever here.

If it wasn't geoblocked people would be able to watch the prowhatever without an eir sub.

Effectively yes.

eir Sport bought rights for the Republic of Ireland only, and Premier Sports bought U.K. rights only.

Therefore Premier Sports is blocked in the Republic of Ireland during Pro14 fixtures, and (presumably though I cannot verify this) eir Sport is conversely blocked in Northern Ireland (where it is only available as a bonus channel for Premier Sports subscribers anyway).

At the time the deal was done both companies had a formal alliance stemming from their mutual history as Setanta Sports. Eir had access to all of Premier’s content bar GAA and eir Sport 2 was effectively a rebadged version of Premier Sports 1. That broke up (mostly) when Premier decided it wanted back into the ROI market and bought the Premier League 3pm rights without eir’s involvement.

6 Nations TV contract

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