Cycle infrastructure planned for south Dublin

ted1 · 28-02-2021 11:18PM

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Strand road is currently so dangerous that the locals have taken to installing turntables rather than reverse pit of driveways. . https://www.linkedin.com/posts/manoj192_dublinproperty-dublincity-parkinglotpaving-ugcPost-6770980468784463872-v27o

They should be more common. Crazy amount if people reversing into main roads. There’s a car park in Dawson street that has had it for years. As a kid I thought it wa great

CramCycle · 28-02-2021 11:20PM

Just to be clear, lets take the cycle path out of it. I think this is a good idea if they just made it one way. Nice they can make a cycle path but it would be a good idea even without the cycle path for the local residents.

First Up · 28-02-2021 11:23PM

AndrewJRenko wrote:

Anyone who hasn't yet worked out that most cyclists ARE motorists isn't really in a great position to talk on this topic.

Both at the same time?

ted1 · 28-02-2021 11:31PM

First Up wrote: »

Both at the same time?

Motorcyclists.....

magicbastarder · 28-02-2021 11:35PM

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Strand road is currently so dangerous that the locals have taken to installing turntables rather than reverse pit of driveways. . https://www.linkedin.com/posts/manoj192_dublinproperty-dublincity-parkinglotpaving-ugcPost-6770980468784463872-v27o

that probably cost a hundred times as much to install as the car that's on it is worth. and that's not an exaggeration.

tomasrojo · 28-02-2021 11:38PM

I remember seeing one of the apartments opposite the War Memorial Gardens advertised and they made a point of mentioning having a car turntable.

AndrewJRenko · 01-03-2021 12:31AM

First Up wrote: »

Both at the same time?

In the context you mentioned, of not liking each other, then Yes, both at the same time.

Cyclists make better drivers than non cyclists, btw.

First Up · 01-03-2021 08:42AM

AndrewJRenko wrote:

In the context you mentioned, of not liking each other, then Yes, both at the same time.

So you accept that there are times when both are justified and necessary

AndrewJRenko wrote:

Cyclists make better drivers than non cyclists, btw.[/quote
Probably more aware of cyclists but still motorists.

The modern world is based on the fast movement of people, goods and services. Motorised transport contributes more to that bicycles notwithstanding the superiority complex of those using them.

Bicycles are a choice; cars, buses and trucks are a necessity. The best solutions include them all.

buffalo · 01-03-2021 09:09AM

First Up wrote: »

Bicycles are a choice; cars, buses and trucks are a necessity. The best solutions include them all.

What? What sort of nonsense is this? I don't own a car because it's too expensive and polluting, so my bike isn't needed? I can choose not to go to the shop to buy food?

First Up · 01-03-2021 09:13AM

buffalo wrote: »

What? What sort of nonsense is this? I don't own a car because it's too expensive and polluting, so my bike isn't needed? I can choose not to go to the shop to buy food?

You can walk, take a bus or get home delivery.

By the way, has it occurred to you how shops get their supplies so you can cycle there to buy them?

buffalo · 01-03-2021 09:15AM

First Up wrote: »

You can walk, take a bus or get home delivery.

By the way, has it occurred to you how shops get their supplies so you can cycle there to buy them?

I'm not arguing that in our current economy, motorised transport isn't necessary for some aspects, I'm wondering how you don't see bikes as necessary? If all the bikes were taken away tomorrow, how do you think our transport systems would cope?

And that's before we get to the air quality, carbon levels, etc.

First Up · 01-03-2021 09:23AM

buffalo wrote: »

I'm not arguing that in our current economy, motorised transport isn't necessary for some aspects, I'm wondering how you don't see bikes as necessary? If all the bikes were taken away tomorrow, how do you think our transport systems would cope?

And that's before we get to the air quality, carbon levels, etc.

OK; I'll try again:

All cyclists have other options available to them, at least around a city like Dublin. All they are transporting is themselves and maybe a small payload - child seat, rucksack etc.

Cars and trucks serve a different purpose. They can carry more people, more goods and travel further and faster.

A cyclist can choose to take a bus, walk or drive if the weather conditions or infirmity making cycling impossible or unattractive.

Car often don't have that choice and truck drivers never do.

buffalo · 01-03-2021 09:29AM

First Up wrote: »

OK; I'll try again:

All cyclists have other options available to them, at least around a city like Dublin. All they are transporting is themselves and maybe a small payload - child seat, rucksack etc.

Cars and trucks serve a different purpose. They can carry more people, more goods and travel further and faster.

A cyclist can choose to take a bus, walk or drive if the weather conditions or infirmity making cycling impossible or unattractive.

Car often don't have that choice and truck drivers never do.

Of course, people use use bikes can choose to walk (despite any disabilities), but people who use cars are doing important business that can't be done on foot. I understand now.

Bikes can only transport a tiny payload, like a single bag or small child. There's no way of transporting people or goods that doesn't involve a motor. It's all so clear. Thank you for opening my eyes!

First Up · 01-03-2021 10:06AM

Weepsie wrote:

Ah here. You're making stuff up to suit .

No, just using facts that you would prefer to ignore

Weepsie wrote:

Everyone is very aware that there are journeys that need to be made in some form of vehicle, due to needs or payload, but most journeys are in fact single occupancy ones that are more than manageable by bike

I'm talking about the ones that are not

breezy1985 · 01-03-2021 10:11AM

Ah lads have ye still not learned to just not reply to this kind of crap

First Up · 01-03-2021 10:30AM

Weepsie wrote:

Like people who cycle. Most car journeys are taken by people with a choice to take them. These journeys need to be reduced, for the greater good of all

Every car and truck that used the Strand Rd to get to the Toll Bridge, Dublin Port or Port Tunnel will still have to make that journey. But they will now have to get there via the side roads of Sandymount. That will put them on roads less suitable and will cause congestion and a greater risk of accidents.

Yes, cyclists on Strand Rd will have their own path but the consequences are disproportionate. And all for the sake of a couple of hundred meters over the beach.

tomasrojo · 01-03-2021 10:31AM

First Up wrote: »

You can walk, take a bus or get home delivery.

This is precisely true of people who rely on cars too?

tomasrojo · 01-03-2021 10:34AM

First Up wrote: »

OK; I'll try again:

All cyclists have other options available to them, at least around a city like Dublin. All they are transporting is themselves and maybe a small payload - child seat, rucksack etc.

Cars and trucks serve a different purpose. They can carry more people, more goods and travel further and faster.

A cyclist can choose to take a bus, walk or drive if the weather conditions or infirmity making cycling impossible or unattractive.

Car often don't have that choice and truck drivers never do.

This is really silly. I carry two kids to school on my bike. People are using electric cargo bikes.

And your suggestion of getting a bus, home delivery, etc., works just as well for people who typically drive, if they work for people who cycle, since you're obviously thinking of a city context. They can even join GoCar or something for the much smaller number of journeys that require going a long distance or carrying something really heavy, which means they can get a van.

First Up · 01-03-2021 10:35AM

tomasrojo wrote:

This is precisely true of people who rely on cars too?

Cars can carry a lot of shopping. Bicycles can't.

First Up · 01-03-2021 10:39AM

tomasrojo wrote:

And your suggestion of getting a bus, home delivery, etc., works just as well for people who typically drive, if they work for people who cycle, since you're obviously thinking of a city context. They can even join GoCar or something for the much smaller number of journeys that require going a long distance or carrying something really heavy, which means they can get a van.

Yes, let's reduce car usage.

Now back to Strand Rd.

tomasrojo · 01-03-2021 10:41AM

First Up wrote: »

Cars can carry a lot of shopping. Bicycles can't.

I can carry plenty. I frequently carry 50kg of shopping.

This is actually easier to carry by bike than car (*), though a van would be easier again, which I have access to anyway, via GoCar. All this saves me about ten thousand euro a year, so switching to a car (or a bus or home delivery) wouldn't make a lot of sense.

(*) Probably not, now I think about it, but it wasn't that much effort either.

First Up · 01-03-2021 10:44AM

tomasrojo wrote:

This is actually easier to carry by bike than car, though a van would be easier again, which I have access to anyway, via GoCar. All this saves me about ten thousand euro a year, so switching to a car would be pretty dumb, really.

Good for you, although I wouldn't expect many 60+ year olds to use one.

AndrewJRenko · 01-03-2021 10:46AM

First Up wrote: »

OK; I'll try again:

All cyclists have other options available to them, at least around a city like Dublin. All they are transporting is themselves and maybe a small payload - child seat, rucksack etc.

Cars and trucks serve a different purpose. They can carry more people, more goods and travel further and faster.

A cyclist can choose to take a bus, walk or drive if the weather conditions or infirmity making cycling impossible or unattractive.

Car often don't have that choice and truck drivers never do.

Car occupancy rates in Dublin were around 1.2 last time I looked. So that's four out of five cars driving round with four empty seats.

50% of journeys of <2km are driven by car. 69% of journeys of 2-4km are driven by car. That's a hell of a lot of cars on the road doing trips that are easily walked or cycled.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/more-than-half-of-travellers-use-cars-for-journeys-under-2km-1.2303451

I'm not sure if you've managed to work this out yet, but it is very much in the interest of motorists to reduce the number of cars on the road, so that the remaining motorists have some hope of completing their journey before they go grey.

AndrewJRenko · 01-03-2021 10:49AM

First Up wrote: »

OK; I'll try again:

All cyclists have other options available to them, at least around a city like Dublin. All they are transporting is themselves and maybe a small payload - child seat, rucksack etc.

Cars and trucks serve a different purpose. They can carry more people, more goods and travel further and faster.

A cyclist can choose to take a bus, walk or drive if the weather conditions or infirmity making cycling impossible or unattractive.

Car often don't have that choice and truck drivers never do.

Car occupancy rates in Dublin were around 1.2 last time I looked. So that's four out of five cars driving round with four empty seats.

50% of journeys of <2km are driven by car. 69% of journeys of 2-4km are driven by car. That's a hell of a lot of cars on the road doing trips that are easily walked or cycled.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/more-than-half-of-travellers-use-cars-for-journeys-under-2km-1.2303451

I'm not sure if you've managed to work this out yet, but it is very much in the interest of motorists to reduce the number of cars on the road, so that the remaining motorists have some hope of completing their journey before they go grey.

tomasrojo · 01-03-2021 10:49AM

First Up wrote: »

Good for you, although I wouldn't expect many 60+ year olds to use one.

Where have the goalposts gone now?

They have electric-assist cargo bike and trikes now. Very practical for anyone, including people who don't have that much strength.

Look, plenty of people rely on bikes, and they're a good solution for plenty of urban transport. They're frequently faster than cars and vans too, and pollute less, and cause less wear and tear. Which is why decent joined-up infrastructure is desirable. Which, if you like, brings everyone back to Strand Road, as you desired.

First Up · 01-03-2021 10:50AM

AndrewJRenko wrote:

I'm not sure if you've managed to work this out yet, but it is very much in the interest of motorists to reduce the number of cars on the road, so that the remaining motorists have some hope of completing their journey before they go grey.

I agree completely.

Now back to Strand Rd.

buffalo · 01-03-2021 10:51AM

First Up wrote: »

Yes, let's reduce car usage.

Now back to Strand Rd.

"Let's reduce car usage... now let's talk about my opposition to a measure that reduces car usage". :rolleyes:

tomasrojo · 01-03-2021 10:55AM

I have to say, I'm not totally invested in the Strand Road project -- I don't go that way much -- and while it looks like a good use of a trial to me, I won't be crushed if the opponents get their way. But it still looks exactly like all the other objections to traffic reduction schemes, and those schemes mostly have worked out fine in Dublin, and once in place residents tend to like them. They're only partly about cycling anyway.

First Up · 01-03-2021 10:59AM

tomasrojo wrote:

Look, plenty of people rely on bikes, and they're a good solution for plenty of urban transport. They're frequently faster than cars and vans too, and pollute less, and cause less wear and tear. Which is why decent joined-up infrastructure is desirable. Which, if you like, brings everyone back to Strand Road, as you desired.

Do you expect people to cycle along Strand Rd to their appointments in St Vincent's or the Blackrock Clinic?

Strand Rd could be safely open to bikes, cars, trucks and buses in both directions by building a cycle and pedestrian path over the few hundred meters not already available in the park.

That's the win/win solution but Mr Keegan has another agenda.

buffalo · 01-03-2021 11:04AM

First Up wrote: »

That's the win/win solution but Mr Keegan has another agenda.

Is this the agenda that you completely support, to reduce car usage?

Cycle infrastructure planned for south Dublin

Comments