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2021 Irish Property Market chat - *mod warnings post 1*

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  • #4352
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,153 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    MacronvFrugals wrote: »
    REITs paying no tax is the equivalent of them beating us with our own stick!

    If you look at this post: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=116350334&postcount=3988

    You will see that numerous people here seem to think that is ok. Personally I find the justification expreseed there specious and illogical.


  • #4353
    Villa05
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,909 ✭✭✭Villa05


    JimmyVik wrote:
    Next you'll be looking for a tax on the old dears spare bedroom.


    That been outsourced as well. I see equity release mortgages are back after being banned in the crash.

    If we built a few custom 1 and 2 bed units close to where they live, it would free up family houses that may have only 1 person living in them

    Better for the person living alone in a large house
    Less bills, maintenance, instalation and refitting of mobility aids etc
    Plus a cash boost from the difference in price

    Better than an equity release product


  • #4354
    fliball123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,612 ✭✭✭fliball123


    PropQueries wrote: »
    How would vacant property taxes (like the United States) cost the state anything?

    If anything they would generate revenue. The side benefit is that it would encourage vacant property owners to look again at their property and see if they should finally make use of it.

    For example, Sligo has a 20% commercial property vacancy rate. I’m sure there are many self-employed people who would take up that space if the rent was right.

    More businesses in Sligo town, more busy, brings more people into the town so existing businesses benefit too, less dereliction, nicer atmosphere, young people see existing self employed people and think they can do it too. Sligo town booms and keeps booming due to an increase in local entrepreneurship.


    We were talking about compulsory orders to buy houses to give to those who cant afford to buy not a vacant property tax. Next it will be anyone can have a go on your wife if your not banging her ..for the greater good and all or just take your car if your not using it


  • #4355
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,153 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Villa05 wrote: »
    That been outsourced as well. I see equity release mortgages are back after being banned in the crash.

    If we built a few custom 1 and 2 bed units close to where they live, it would free up family houses that may have only 1 person living in them

    Better for the person living alone in a large house
    Less bills, maintenance, instalation and refitting of mobility aids etc
    Plus a cash boost from the difference in price

    Better than an equity release product

    Wouldn't that little move cost someone about €10k down the drain for a trade down?


  • #4356
    Hubertj
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,000 ✭✭✭Hubertj


    Villa05 wrote: »
    Agreed, but allowing reits in with access to free money and practically tax exempt allows for distortion in the market.

    Imagine what would happen if the general public was told you no longer need to pay tax and your mortgage interest rates are 0 for the foreseeable future

    It's never going to happen, but it has happened for reits/investment funds. This gives them huge competitive advantage and they become the price setters for new homes.

    This together with money printing imo has been the replacement for 110,% mortgages in the noughties in driving the bubble forward. As they drive prices higher more and more are priced out of the market and these people become economically neutralised due to the sky high rents increasingly going to entities that pay no tax
    As the rents soar the taxpayer comes under pressure and we are now in a position that greater than 50% of rents are subsidised by the state incl local authority. This is completely unsustainable

    How much revenue /profits do REITs keep vs what is distributed to shareholders?


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  • #4357
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    Villa05 wrote: »
    That been outsourced as well. I see equity release mortgages are back after being banned in the crash.

    If we built a few custom 1 and 2 bed units close to where they live, it would free up family houses that may have only 1 person living in them

    Better for the person living alone in a large house
    Less bills, maintenance, instalation and refitting of mobility aids etc
    Plus a cash boost from the difference in price

    Better than an equity release product


    And if they ever want their kids or grandchildren to stay over. There is always the shed, or a tent, until people scream for them to be taxed.,


  • #4358
    decreds
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 144 ✭✭decreds


    Hypothetical question to assess people's confidence in the Irish property market.

    If you were given 1 million quid to invest, how much (if any) would you put into Irish property? If you would invest in it, would you invest now or wait? Your current house is already paid off so this is strictly investment.


  • #4359
    Hubertj
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,000 ✭✭✭Hubertj


    decreds wrote: »
    Hypothetical question to assess people's confidence in the Irish property market.

    If you were given 1 million quid to invest, how much (if any) would you put into Irish property? If you would invest in it, would you invest now or wait? Your current house is already paid off so this is strictly investment.

    Could I just keep it instead?


  • #4360
    Zenify
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 864 ✭✭✭Zenify


    decreds wrote: »
    Hypothetical question to assess people's confidence in the Irish property market.

    If you were given 1 million quid to invest, how much (if any) would you put into Irish property? If you would invest in it, would you invest now or wait? Your current house is already paid off so this is strictly investment.

    Zero

    Does anyone know if large investors are still buying property in Ireland? New deals! Not just following through on old deals.


  • #4361
    Cyrus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,932 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    decreds wrote: »
    Hypothetical question to assess people's confidence in the Irish property market.

    If you were given 1 million quid to invest, how much (if any) would you put into Irish property? If you would invest in it, would you invest now or wait? Your current house is already paid off so this is strictly investment.

    Being a landlord has no appeal for me so 0. However if I could sell my own house and put the million with it I would .


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  • #4362
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,695 ✭✭✭hometruths


    Cyrus wrote: »
    Being a landlord has no appeal for me so 0. However if I could sell my own house and put the million with it I would .

    Why would being a landlord have zero appeal?


  • #4363
    Cyrus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,932 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    schmittel wrote: »
    Why would being a landlord have zero appeal?

    It’s a pain in the ass that I don’t have time for basically.


  • #4364
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,153 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    decreds wrote: »
    Hypothetical question to assess people's confidence in the Irish property market.

    If you were given 1 million quid to invest, how much (if any) would you put into Irish property? If you would invest in it, would you invest now or wait? Your current house is already paid off so this is strictly investment.

    Not a cent. I'd send it Oz or NZ and invest it there.


  • #4365
    fliball123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,612 ✭✭✭fliball123


    decreds wrote: »
    Hypothetical question to assess people's confidence in the Irish property market.

    If you were given 1 million quid to invest, how much (if any) would you put into Irish property? If you would invest in it, would you invest now or wait? Your current house is already paid off so this is strictly investment.

    all of it I would buy 4 livable gaffs in area like clondalkin. blanchardstown basically on the lower price range and give them to the government for 20 years at 85% of the current market value, no upkeep needed as they look after it and have to give it back to you the way you gave it. after tax if you were not working you would easily make 3.5k a month (if not more). Its not to do with the market by the way just the current system the government have locks in rents and figures for up to 25 years. I am not sure there is any where else you would get this return guaranteed by the state


  • #4366
    Marius34
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,173 ✭✭✭Marius34


    decreds wrote: »
    Hypothetical question to assess people's confidence in the Irish property market.

    If you were given 1 million quid to invest, how much (if any) would you put into Irish property? If you would invest in it, would you invest now or wait? Your current house is already paid off so this is strictly investment.

    If I have 1 million, I would not invest in property (except to upgrade to better house). As I'm not a business person, I would SLOWLY be moving cash to Stock Market.
    But if I have 5 million, I would maybe invest in Irish Residential Property (10-20 properties).
    Reason behind it is, that policies/tax are very anti small landlords. But it's fairly good for bigger landlord, if you can open Limited company, and employ the person todo all the hassle, with all the tax/expense work.


  • #4367
    thefridge2006
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 220 ✭✭thefridge2006


    EU to force multinationals to reveal tax filings as Ireland loses debate

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/eu-to-force-multinationals-to-reveal-tax-filings-as-ireland-loses-debate-1.4495172

    I'm pretty sure this is another one of Props suggestions that was shot down and laughed at.....

    Fair play Props


  • #4368
    Gradius
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭Gradius


    decreds wrote: »
    Hypothetical question to assess people's confidence in the Irish property market.

    If you were given 1 million quid to invest, how much (if any) would you put into Irish property? If you would invest in it, would you invest now or wait? Your current house is already paid off so this is strictly investment.

    At this rate you'd be as well off sticking it under a mattress.

    The credible threat of negative interest rates, illogically priced property, illogically priced stock markets, middle of a pandemic with serious geopolitical implications...

    Timing is everything, and now ain't it.


  • #4369
    Cyrus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,932 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    thefridge2006 wrote: »
    EU to force multinationals to reveal tax filings as Ireland loses debate

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/eu-to-force-multinationals-to-reveal-tax-filings-as-ireland-loses-debate-1.4495172

    I'm pretty sure this is another one of Props suggestions that was shot down and laughed at.....

    Fair play Props

    point out where this specific issue related to CBCR was shot down and laughed at, you arent going well, one of your last posts was responding to someone talking about tech stocks being down 30% :D


  • #4370
    Villa05
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,909 ✭✭✭Villa05


    PropQueries wrote:
    Well, the state can compulsory purchase my property for a cycle path in the middle of nowhere i.e. greenways.
    Aahh the green wave, what a disappointment they are

    cnocbui wrote:
    Wouldn't that little move cost someone about €10k down the drain for a trade down?

    I assume your referring to buying/selling costs. Many of those costs are state imposed. If the state was serious about efficient use of property, many of these fees could be removed, but that wouldn't put money in private business pockets.

    I don't know how many times I've seen a family buy a home and strip it of the mobility aides and dumped them in a skip. All of them are installed grant aided by the state. How apt

    Would it not make more sense to have a portion of housing stock set aside for the frail immobile.
    We can't do that I suppose bcos reits won't buy them
    JimmyVik wrote:
    And if they ever want their kids or grandchildren to stay over. There is always the shed, or a tent, until people scream for them to be taxed.,

    Nobody is forcing, if that's important to you, fine,


  • #4371
    MacronvFrugals
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,045 ✭✭✭MacronvFrugals


    HSBC to slash post-Covid office space by 40% as profits drop by a third
    HSBC is to reduce its office space around the world by nearly 40% as part of sweeping cost cutting designed to capitalise on new part-office-part-homeworking arrangements after the pandemic.

    Lloyds embraces hybrid working with 20% cut in office space
    The decision was taken after 77% of Lloyds’ 68,000 employees said they wanted to work from home for three or more days a week in the future. The bank’s chief financial officer, William Chalmers, said it would make sure offices offered more space for teamwork rather than areas where staff sit at their desks alone.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/feb/24/lloyds-profits-plunge-covid-defaults-dividend-payments
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/feb/23/hsbc-looks-to-asia-after-profits-plunge-34


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  • #4372
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,695 ✭✭✭hometruths


    thefridge2006 wrote: »
    EU to force multinationals to reveal tax filings as Ireland loses debate

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/eu-to-force-multinationals-to-reveal-tax-filings-as-ireland-loses-debate-1.4495172

    I'm pretty sure this is another one of Props suggestions that was shot down and laughed at.....

    Fair play Props

    Props being bang on the money is becoming quite the trend.


  • #4373
    decreds
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 144 ✭✭decreds


    Props is our very own Notradamus.

    I fully expect most of his predictions to be realized within the next 5 years.


  • #4374
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,101 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    schmittel wrote: »
    Props being bang on the money is becoming quite the trend.

    Can you link me the post where PropQueries discussed this specific issue of tax reporting (which is completely different to any discussion of tax rate harmonisation) in the past?

    I'm looking but can't find it. I've seen PropQueries post numerous times about tax harmonisation and how it's going to cause Ireland to collapse cause all the MNC workers are going to move to Poland or something, but I cannot personally recall what he said on this subject.

    Interested to read his viewpoint on it.


  • #4375
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,695 ✭✭✭hometruths


    MacronvFrugals wrote: »
    HSBC to slash post-Covid office space by 40% as profits drop by a third



    Lloyds embraces hybrid working with 20% cut in office space



    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/feb/24/lloyds-profits-plunge-covid-defaults-dividend-payments
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/feb/23/hsbc-looks-to-asia-after-profits-plunge-34

    Presumably 68,000 is a decent sample size. If 77% was representative of workers desire to WFH majority of time in jobs that can WFH, it is pretty significant.


  • #4376
    MacronvFrugals
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,045 ✭✭✭MacronvFrugals


    schmittel wrote: »
    Presumably 68,000 is a decent sample size. If 77% was representative of workers desire to WFH majority of time in jobs that can WFH, it is pretty significant.

    Exactly my thoughts the shift does seem to be happening and hybrid with <=2 days in the office is the preferred model.

    In saying that there is others who are vehemently opposed to it -


    Goldman Sachs' boss wants bankers back to their desks ASAP
    The corporate world is becoming split over home working, with David Solomon branding it ‘an aberration’

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/feb/25/goldman-sachs-boss-wants-bankers-back-to-their-desks-asap


  • #4377
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,101 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    MacronvFrugals wrote: »
    Exactly my thoughts the shift does seem to be happening and hybrid with >=2 days in the office is the preferred model.

    In saying that there is others who are vehemently opposed to it -


    Goldman Sachs' boss wants bankers back to their desks ASAP



    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/feb/25/goldman-sachs-boss-wants-bankers-back-to-their-desks-asap

    The cynic in me wonders how much money Goldman Sachs have tied up in commercial property. :)

    They won't be alone though. I would bet that once this is all over the overwhelming majority will still be commuting to an office every working day.


  • #4378
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,695 ✭✭✭hometruths


    awec wrote: »
    Can you link me the post where PropQueries discussed this specific issue of tax reporting (which is completely different to any discussion of tax rate harmonisation) in the past?

    I'm looking but can't find it. I've seen PropQueries post numerous times about tax harmonisation and how it's going to cause Ireland to collapse cause all the MNC workers are going to move to Poland or something, but I cannot personally recall what he said on this subject.

    Interested to read his viewpoint on it.

    If you are genuinely interested in his viewpoint on this specific issue, I've no doubt he'll be happy to share it with you if you ask him. He's certainly not shy about sharing his opinions.


  • #4379
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,153 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    decreds wrote: »
    Props is our very own Notradamus.

    I fully expect most of his predictions to be realized within the next 5 years.

    I would have said comrade Chicken Little or comrade Casandra.


  • #4380
    Cyrus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,932 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    decreds wrote: »
    Props is our very own Notradamus.

    I fully expect most of his predictions to be realized within the next 5 years.

    His main one is a 75 percent decrease in property prices in the next 12-24 months .


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  • #4381
    Cyrus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,932 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    schmittel wrote: »
    Props being bang on the money is becoming quite the trend.

    Is it?

    He wasn’t about that because he never mentioned it yet we now have two posters claiming he was.

    His legend grows .


This discussion has been closed.
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