5mm Remington Rimfire Magnum bullet

minktrapper · 19-02-2021 10:43am #1

This calibre of bullet was mentioned in another thread about the .17 Mach 2. The 38gr version has the same energy at 150yds as the 22Magnum has at 100yds. What are the chances of getting ammo or rifles in this calibre.

Feisar · 19-02-2021 12:17pm

Possible but I'd say yer into labour of love territory.

Ammo - Aguila are making it so I suppose a dealer that stocks them would be the place to start?

Rifle - I doubt there are too many kicking about on this side of the pond rare enough on gunbroker Stateside. Reading on rimfire central lads were asking if a Sako Quad would be strong enough, someone else saying a TC Contender would be the way to go.
Here's an article testing ammo in a converted CZ 452:

http://www.varminter.com/new-aguila-5mm-remington-rimfire-magnum-initial-ammo-review/

meathstevie · 20-02-2021 8:48pm

From that article it seems to be very much a niche product in the US. I think that would make it highly unlikely if ever seeing a reliable supply of rifles and ammunition this side of the Atlantic.

tudderone · 20-02-2021 9:43pm

Do any of these super-duper new rounds, we cannot possible live without, actually do anything the old rounds couldn't ? It seems the marketing boffins outrank the ballistic engineers in the firearms industry.

minktrapper · 20-02-2021 10:24pm

tudderone wrote: »

Do any of these super-duper new rounds, we cannot possible live without, actually do anything the old rounds couldn't ? It seems the marketing boffins outrank the ballistic engineers in the firearms industry.

The .17 Winchester Super Magnum Rimfire is an excellent super-duper round. A cheap rimfire bullet ideal for use in Ireland. Have not used it yet unfortunately.

Feisar · 20-02-2021 10:50pm

tudderone wrote: »

Do any of these super-duper new rounds, we cannot possible live without, actually do anything the old rounds couldn't ? It seems the marketing boffins outrank the ballistic engineers in the firearms industry.

To be fair the 5mm Remington came out in '69.

I practice what you are saying, 22LR, 223 and 308 in my safe but efficient cartridges are interesting. Look at the .20 Hornet pushing a 32 grain bullet with a BC of .210 at 3200fps.

Feisar · 20-02-2021 10:52pm

meathstevie wrote: »

From that article it seems to be very much a niche product in the US. I think that would make it highly unlikely if ever seeing a reliable supply of rifles and ammunition this side of the Atlantic.

Sorry I quoted you while replying to Tudderone, yea it'd be a pain to run one here.

tudderone · 20-02-2021 11:03pm

minktrapper wrote: »

The .17 Winchester Super Magnum Rimfire is an excellent super-duper round. A cheap rimfire bullet ideal for use in Ireland. Have not used it yet unfortunately.

I just remember reading, especially in the American shooting magazines, more than once about the amazing new rounds that were going to make everything else obsolete. Yet the .22lr, .223, .243, .270, .308, .30-06, 6.5 swede etc are still the most popular and by a wide margin. The Winchester short magnums for instance.

JP22 · 21-02-2021 1:48am

Its hard to beat old and proven stuff, if it wasn't any good it would not have survived this long.

I recall reading somewhere a long time ago that more big game were taken with .303 and .257 Rigby/Roberts than any other calibre.

Mellor · 21-02-2021 2:44am

tudderone wrote: »

Do any of these super-duper new rounds, we cannot possible live without, actually do anything the old rounds couldn't ? It seems the marketing boffins outrank the ballistic engineers in the firearms industry.

At this point the 5mm Rem is an old round. 50+ years. Not much younger than the .243, which in itself was necked for speed in much the same way as these rimfire.

I’d guess the 5mm rimfire would have been more successful if the WMR didn’t get there first. (And if it wasn’t metric as somebody pointed out).
I definitely think there’s value in these super-rimfires. The reason it came up in the other thread was that I suggest the WSM was an good, but too similar to the HMR. And wondering is a .27-204 would have been a gap, and Feisar pointed out the forgotten 5mm Remington.

Zxthinger · 21-02-2021 1:56pm

The yanks apperntly go mad for the metric annotation, seemly it's holds exotic undertones.
Market research gurus probably selected the name thinking it will boost sales

How's are sales of the centerfire cousin doing i.e. 204rugar

minktrapper · 21-02-2021 4:36pm

Any of ye know if the Sako Quad action would be strong enough for the 5mm Remington Magnum cartridge.

tudderone · 21-02-2021 4:49pm

Looking on Rimfire central, even the Americans say 5mm rm ammo can be a PITA to find. Whats the chances of finding it here ?

minktrapper · 21-02-2021 5:06pm

I suppose a demand would create a supply chain but trying to create a demand would be difficult. Rimfire bullets are great to shoot and cheap. Pity we don't have the 5mm. Maybe if it was pushed a bit it would help. I hope the 17 Winchester Super Magnum Rimfire will be around for a long time to come.

tudderone · 21-02-2021 5:12pm

minktrapper wrote: »

I suppose a demand would create a supply chain but trying to create a demand would be difficult. Rimfire bullets are great to shoot and cheap. Pity we don't have the 5mm. Maybe if it was pushed a bit it would help. I hope the 17 Winchester Super Magnum Rimfire will be around for a long time to come.

In Ireland ? Completely impossible, the numbers of shooters here are miniscule in the larger scheme of things. One rural state in America probably has multiples of the amount of shooters we have here.

zeissman · 21-02-2021 5:59pm

minktrapper wrote: »

Any of ye know if the Sako Quad action would be strong enough for the 5mm Remington Magnum cartridge.

It should be as it is used in the 17hmr and 22 wmr.
I like the idea of a 20 calibre rimfire rifle, my only concern would be the availability of ammo.

minktrapper · 21-02-2021 7:45pm

zeissman wrote: »

It should be as it is used in the 17hmr and 22 wmr.
I like the idea of a 20 calibre rimfire rifle, my only concern would be the availability of ammo.

.22 Magnum 22,000 psi compared to 33,000 psi for the 5mm Remington Magnum cartridge. Considerable increase in pressure. Don't know if the Sako Quad action can handle it.

If the 5mm Remington Magnum cartridge became popular in the UK it would surely be available in Ireland.

tudderone · 21-02-2021 7:57pm

What you need to know is the backthrust. This is the force applied to the bolt face. You need to know the pressure of the round, and the diameter of the inside of case. Then the force is Pressure (p.s.i) x area (in inches). If you can work that out, you can compare it to the .22lr (1,000 lbs) or .22 magnum.

I used to have an excel spreadsheet with most of the back thrusts of the common rounds on it. I'll see if i can find it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolt_thrust

Feisar · 21-02-2021 8:18pm

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1216775&amp=1

Lads chatting about a Sako Quad barrel. I also went googling the price of ammo:

https://www.wikiarms.com/group/5mm_RRM

Ouch!

Mellor · 21-02-2021 11:48pm

minktrapper wrote: »

.22 Magnum 22,000 psi compared to 33,000 psi for the 5mm Remington Magnum cartridge. Considerable increase in pressure. Don't know if the Sako Quad action can handle it.

If the 5mm Remington Magnum cartridge became popular in the UK it would surely be available in Ireland.

The 17 HMR is 26,000 iirc.

tudderone wrote: »

What you need to know is the backthrust. This is the force applied to the bolt face. You need to know the pressure of the round, and the diameter of the inside of case. Then the force is Pressure (p.s.i) x area (in inches). If you can work that out, you can compare it to the .22lr (1,000 lbs) or .22 magnum.

I used to have an excel spreadsheet with most of the back thrusts of the common rounds on it. I'll see if i can find it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolt_thrust

Should be the same force as the .17WSM or slightly less

tudderone · 22-02-2021 12:42am

Mellor wrote: »

Should be the same force as the .17WSM or slightly less

Yes i doubt the 5mm would trouble a .22 magnum or wsm action, but it can be worked out fairly easily, if you can find out the case dimensions. Its always best to play safe and be doubly sure.

Zxthinger · 22-02-2021 1:01am

tudderone wrote: »

What you need to know is the backthrust. This is the force applied to the bolt face. You need to know the pressure of the round, and the diameter of the inside of case. Then the force is Pressure (p.s.i) x area (in inches). If you can work that out, you can compare it to the .22lr (1,000 lbs) or .22 magnum.

I used to have an excel spreadsheet with most of the back thrusts of the common rounds on it. I'll see if i can find it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolt_thrust

Didn't PO Ackly or Hatcher, (Julian S) conduct experiments firing ammo from un-breached actions. I think that Ackley recognized that the degree of taper in a cartridge was the over ridding constraint related the development of back-thrust?? in fact some cartridge held fast until the pressure dropped thereby releasing their grip

tudderone · 22-02-2021 1:24am

Zxthinger wrote: »

Didn't PO Ackly or Hatcher, (Julian S) conduct experiments firing ammo from un-breached actions. I think that Ackley recognized that the degree of taper in a cartridge was the over ridding constraint related the development of back-thrust?? in fact some cartridge held fast until the pressure dropped thereby releasing their grip

Yes, thats one thing the back thrust maths doesn't account for. The case expands and grips the chamber walls when fired. But then you have to take into account other things like the finish on the chamber wall, if there is oil there or not. So when you work out the back thrust thats the maximum force it will be on the action and will probably be less than that.

Zxthinger · 22-02-2021 5:09am

If bill 127 get approved then you might see the 5mm stuff being shipped to Europe
https://www.nraila.org/articles/20210205/florida-alert-hr-127-federal-gun-control-proposal
Agulia Ammo will prohibited in US..

Uinseann_16 · 25-02-2021 4:24am

Personally I would love to see a come back of odd ball Romford cartridges , it's a surprise there hasn't been as there's very few international restrictions on rim fire compared to centrefire
Things like the .25 Stevens or the .32 long , .267 Remington
I'd imagine a modernised .32 long carbine would be fun

tudderone · 25-02-2021 1:58pm

Uinseann_16 wrote: »

Personally I would love to see a come back of odd ball Romford cartridges , it's a surprise there hasn't been as there's very few international restrictions on rim fire compared to centrefire
Things like the .25 Stevens or the .32 long , .267 Remington
I'd imagine a modernised .32 long carbine would be fun

Its calibre it goes on though. A .32 is still restricted.

Uinseann_16 · 25-02-2021 3:56pm

tudderone wrote: »

Its calibre it goes on though. A .32 is still restricted.

No the bore limit applies to centrefire

Uinseann_16 · 25-02-2021 9:50pm

tudderone wrote: »

Its calibre it goes on though. A .32 is still restricted.

(i) single-shot or repeating rifled centre-fire firearms of a calibre not exceeding 7.62 millimetres (.308 inch) and whose overall length is greater than 90 centimetres,

Rimfire you could have a .44 henry flat on a non resticted :pac: if they still made it.....

tudderone · 25-02-2021 10:05pm

Uinseann_16 wrote: »

(i) single-shot or repeating rifled centre-fire firearms of a calibre not exceeding 7.62 millimetres (.308 inch) and whose overall length is greater than 90 centimetres,

Rimfire you could have a .44 henry flat on a non resticted :pac: if they still made it.....

Yup, your chances of finding ammo is precisely nil. In fact some of it are collectors items now.

Uinseann_16 · 25-02-2021 10:07pm

Still a wonder why a rimfire hasnt been made(or remade) for the UK market or even california
.32 long a 60-70gr rimfire?? with modern tech

Something a lil more than a .22 mag
Theres the .17wsm sure but not old school cool is it

tudderone · 25-02-2021 10:09pm

Uinseann_16 wrote: »

Still a wonder why a rimfire hasnt been made(or remade) for the UK market or even california
.32 long a 60-70gr rimfire?? with modern tech
Something a lil more than a .22 mag
Theres the .17wsm sure but not old school cool is it

There would be no point, they can be banned by the government or home office in a few hours.

Uinseann_16 · 26-02-2021 7:33pm

tudderone wrote: »

There would be no point, they can be banned by the government or home office in a few hours.

Still a big international market , one US state would be worth as much as the whole of Europe TBF

Zxthinger · 26-02-2021 9:41pm

Anyway.. it's would great if the 17wsm was offered in a 22 or something.. lol

minktrapper · 27-02-2021 2:20pm

Zxthinger wrote: »

Anyway.. it's would great if the 17wsm was offered in a 22 or something.. lol

A 5mm/.20 WSM is what we need.

Feisar · 27-02-2021 5:55pm

minktrapper wrote: »

A 5mm/.20 WSM is what we need.

Won’t happen as they wouldn’t be able to advertise a 3000 FPS velocity. A 32 grain twenty cal would be a better ticket but wouldn’t sound as good.

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5mm Remington Rimfire Magnum bullet

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