The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

ArielAtom wrote: »

It really is very simple. I'm stating facts, you are offering an opinion. I have also said I would love to see Dublin with a state of the art county ground part funded in the way PUC was. The would negate one of the perceived advantages. Would you agree to the government/GAA funding to the sum of 50m for a capex project?

I'll try to simply if further - Can you explain how what how your "facts" are relevant to discussion of the Dominance of Dublin GAA. The fact that you seem to be excitedly clinging onto to deflect away everything is that Croke Park is not the official home ground of Dublin GAA. Parnell Park is. I know you try your best to avoid answering direct questions - so how does the fact that Parnell Park is Dublin's official home ground have to do with the issue of the dominance of Dublin GAA - considering they play the vast majority in Croke Park - far more than any other teams. There. Cannot be simpler than that.
To answer your question, the gov/GAA funding €50m for a stadium is fine by me. Not my money, and from what I can see doesn't lead to any inequalities.

ooter wrote: »

The vast majority of Dublin GAA games are not played in croke park, don't have the figures but I'd imagine more are played outside of croke park on a yearly basis.

What would be the flagship team of Dublin GAA?
Where do they play , at a guess , more than 80% of their games?

ooter wrote: »

Dublin senior footballers and croke park, I doubt anyone would answer that question differently.
If the Dublin senior hurlers player more than 80% of their games in CP nobody would bat an eyelid, I wonder why..

One question why did you decide to edit your initial answer to include the hurlers?

ArielAtom wrote: »

My facts are relevant due to the constant garbage being touted that CP is Dublins HQ. I have states that I would prefer we had our own county ground which was up to the standard of PUC. I am glad you would back the building of a ground for Dublin GAA and with the financial support others have received in regards to capital projects. I have never stated that Parnell Park had anything to do with our dominant position in football at present. I have agreed that funding for games development has to be reviewed, check back in the thread.

The big debate is how is it allocated, is it by playing numbers, or by potential playing numbers, which is what the Dublin only project was. I am completely against splitting in anyway, as are most normal members of the GAA. Splitting will only benefit a small number of teams who have gotten close to Dublin in recent years.

It is not going to help the likes of Meath, Kildare, Laois, Westmeath or Louth. Kerry, Donegal, Mayo and Tyrone it would. The argument about population has only become an issue with success, prior to that it was used as a stick to bate Dublin with.

So, yes funding needs to be reviewed, Dublin need a new stadium and to play games wherever is deemed home or away, and splitting should never happen. I hope that clarifies my opinion, as thats all it is and all we can offer on a chat forum.

I dont think there is any part of this that stands up to scrutiny. If you want another county ground then go take a loan and get going, like others have. What is stopping you doing this?

Re splitting, the reality is, if you want to be treated as a province when funds are being allocsted, as dublin have been on record in saying, then in the interest of both fairness and the sake of the flagship level of the sport, they need to be treated as a province acrossthe board. It is as clear as that. What good is dublin inc winning when it is at the expense of the game itself? I say dublin inc because the true dublin signed off the day they got backed by both the governing body and the government of the country, at the expense of everyone else.

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

I dont think there is any part of this that stands up to scrutiny. If you want another county ground then go take a loan and get going, like others have. What is stopping you doing this?

Re splitting, the reality is, if you want to be treated as a province when funds are being allocsted, as dublin have been on record in saying, then in the interest of both fairness and the sake of the flagship level of the sport, they need to be treated as a province acrossthe board. It is as clear as that. What good is dublin inc winning when it is at the expense of the game itself? I say dublin inc because the true dublin signed off the day they got backed by both the governing body and the government of the country, at the expense of everyone else.

Again you choose not to read the full post, either that or you have comprehension issues. I have stated that a ground is required, that is to satisfy the posters on the internet that don't want Dublin to use CP. I have stated that Dublin have the land, much like Cork did, they have a piece of land they can sell to part fund the development of a new facility and that the 50M that the government and GAA would supply would enable the building of the ground, I am not suggesting that anyone should fully fund it for Dublin GAA, the sale of PP would ensure that they would not be in the debt that Cork GAA are now due to poor project and financial management of the PUC project. So fairness is achieved.

ArielAtom wrote: »

Again you choose not to read the full post, either that or you have comprehension issues. I have stated that a ground is required, that is to satisfy the posters on the internet that don't want Dublin to use CP. I have stated that Dublin have the land, much like Cork did, they have a piece of land they can sell to part fund the development of a new facility and that the 50M that the government and GAA would supply would enable the building of the ground, I am not suggesting that anyone should fully fund it for Dublin GAA, the sale of PP would ensure that they would not be in the debt that Cork GAA are now due to poor project and financial management of the PUC project. So fairness is achieved.

I've been following this thread for a while, and despite the fact that it can be a bit of a car crash, it is beginning to grasp some of the key issues with regard to the future of the football championship.

IMO Dublin GAA will not build a new 30K plus seater stadium in the next 20+ years, primarily because the GAA won't want to support it. The GAA will continue to want Dublin to host most of their championship & league games in Croke Park. CP needs to be used more often, and GAA HQ are happy for Dublin GAA to continue to use CP, as that helps to pay the bills.

I believe the argument as to whether CP or PP is the home pitch for Dublin GAA is a bit irrelevant. In practice CP is almost a home ground, except we can't train on the pitch. I say this as a Dublin season ticket holder. PP is a lovely old ground, that is great for club championship matches, but other than O'Byrne Cup matches in Jan/Feb, and hurling league matches, PP is unsuitable to host the Senior Footballers. PP remains the spiritual home of Dublin GAA.

I'd have to concede that playing most of our games in CP is an advantage over the opposition. To counter this every second game in the Leinster Championship, bar the final, should be on a home and away basis. All Ireland Finals and Semi-Finals should always be played in CP. The change to the super 8's whereby Dublin could only play one of the three fixtures in CP seemed a reasonable compromise.

The piece around the funding of the GPO's is very interesting. From my own perspective I have seen the impact our GPO's have had within my club over the last fifteen years. They have made a huge difference to the numbers of young children joining the club, they have provided a structure for the club nursery and summer and easter camps. They have administered the provision of coaching the coaches within the club. Primarily they have promoted the club within the area and helped it grow over that time frame.

In terms of actual coaching, I've rarely seen any evidence of direct coaching. I've taken a team from four years of age up to adult football in that fifteen year time-frame, and I don't recall any of the GPO's over that period taking a direct session with those lads. I have seen the GPO take the odd session in the last couple of years with teams just out of nursery, to give the parents ideas in terms of how to structure a session.

From my perspective, funding the provision of a GPO is a positive development. Rolling it out nationwide should be the next step. I understand the East Leinster Project and the Gaelfast Project are doing that in certain areas, but more is needed. I can also understand the challenges faced by placing a GPO with a series of small clubs in a rural setting, in that the impact of the GPO will be diluted in comparison to a more urban environment.

Splitting Dublin, while revolutionary, will have no lasting impact on the destination of Sam other than taking Dublin out of the loop.

I'm very conscious of the fact that what I love about watching sport is the unknown, going to a game hoping for a win, a knot in my stomach, nerves etc. In every league game I attend, that knot is present. It might not last the whole game, but in plenty of league games it is there for the 70 minutes. In the Leinster Championship it is gone, even against Meath. In the semi final against Cavan, it barely rippled. It remains anytime we play Mayo, Tyrone or Kerry, and was there for the whole of the final this year. I don't ever expect the feeling I had in 2011 to repeat itself, but I would like that knot back.

If the only idea is to split Dublin into 2/4/8, then this thread is a waste. Dublin will never go for it, and with the structures currently in place, will never be forced either.

If a series of ideas can be implemented that ensures that we all go to games with a bit of a knot in our stomachs, that there is a bit more equality right throughout the inter-county game, then I'm interested. But if the only solution on offer is to split Dublin and complain about 20 years of "financial doping" you may as well bark at the moon.

Enquiring wrote: »

Fair play to you Past30now but I don't think saying we've had use of this plan drawn up and funded for us for 20 years, now we think it's ok for the rest of you to get a go is going to cut it. Not with it having decimated the ladies and men's football championships and leaving Dublin GAA with an extraordinary level of finance available to them.

Its not up to Dublin to roll out the scheme, or a variant of same, to the rest of the country, nor will Dublin apologise for a scheme that was implemented to increase participation at juvenile level. In fairness the definition/measure of success for this scheme should not be measured by success at Senior level, but by the increase in participation. DCB annual reports for the last number of years have referred to the increase in juvenile teams and games.

The solution to restoring the competitive edge in our championships needs to be more radical. A single measure like splitting Dublin will fail. Something like the league structure becoming the primary competition with a championship structure based on where you finish in the league. I obviously don't have all the answers but a comprehensive solution is required, not a piecemeal solution.

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

What if the rest of the country wont go for it staying the way it is? I dont think holding the rest of the country to ransom is the way to go. Splitting Dublin is the prevaling idea here because it is the best fit for all the issues. Your not liking it doesnt change that reality.

Irish Independent survey of GAA county chairmen reveals that only 1 /5 of same believe funding to Dublin should be cut and almost none of them believe Dublin should be split into.2/4/6 etc. Full details in this weekends edition.;)

superbluedub wrote: »

Irish Independent survey of GAA county chairmen reveals that only 1 /5 of same believe funding to Dublin should be cut and almost none of them believe Dublin should be split into.2/4/6 etc. Full details in this weekends edition.;)

Were these chairmen perhaps aware that their votes would be public knowledge? Kind of undermines the thing really. Poll the gaa members, with anonymity intact, and see what they say...

superbluedub wrote: »

Ok then organize that ,and share the results here

I just shared them. Read through what was said, I can't understand how "yes" was included in some counties like Cavan.

superbluedub wrote: »

Irish Independent survey of GAA county chairmen reveals that only 1 /5 of same believe funding to Dublin should be cut and almost none of them believe Dublin should be split into.2/4/6 etc. Full details in this weekends edition.;)

If the funding model is changed away from population a lot of counties will lose out so it's not a surprise really

JeffKenna wrote: »

I just shared them. Read through what was said, I can't understand how "yes" was included in some counties like Cavan.

Poll the gaa members, with anonymity intact, and see what they say.. :rolleyes:

superbluedub wrote: »

Irish Independent survey of GAA county chairmen reveals that only 1 /5 of same believe funding to Dublin should be cut and almost none of them believe Dublin should be split into.2/4/6 etc. Full details in this weekends edition.;)

It is amazing how these myths gather pace. This has been corrected already and JeffKenna has done so again but it won't stop this being repeated. It's like the myth that the games development money was just for primary school kids. We know it wasn't just for primary school kids, we know that clubs saw the main benefit of the coaches, high ranking Dublin GAA officials have confirmed that it had a major impact on the standard of Gaelic games at elite level, yet the myth will live on.

superbluedub wrote: »

The myth will live on here that Dublin will be split
Its not gonna happen anytime soon

But it will happen. The sport can't survive the level of dominance Dublin football can produce.

My question for the naysayers is, how bad will it need to get, before you are willing to countenance a split? 10 in a row? A majority of championships every decade?

SheepsClothing wrote: »

But it will happen. The sport can't survive the level of dominance Dublin football can produce.

My question for the naysayers is, how bad will it need to get, before you are willing to countenance a split? 10 in a row? A majority of championships every decade?

Well for 7 of the decades since the 1920’s the most successful team has been Kerry, so I think that horse has long ago bolted.

(Won’t be long till someone comes back with the myth that everything was fine back in the good old days for...reasons...)