Cycle infrastructure planned for south Dublin

Seth Brundle · 24-02-2021 06:08PM

Trudee wrote: »

We’ve managed because Merrion Gates wasn’t closed off to all Northbound traffic but come Monday....

...what?
If you read the screening report you'll see the following...

According to modelling carried out by the NTA in October 2020 (ref Appendix I), removal of northbound traffic will reduce traffic volumes by approximately 40%. During the trial operational period, it can be anticipated that traffic, noise and air quality impacts the scheme area will be less than at present.

The NTA traffic modelling predicts that the displaced northbound traffic will disperse through a number of alternative routes for the duration of the scheme. During the a.m. peak (the ‘worst case’) the changes in traffic on alternate routes are estimated to range from - 9% to +63% (ref Appendix I). This displaced traffic will be monitored and managed by DCC Transportation and Environment section in accordance with their normal remit to manage City traffic efficiently and sustainably.

...
During operation of the scheme, its benefits and impacts will be monitored and managed by DCC Transportation and Environment section in accordance with their normal remit to manage City traffic efficiently and sustainably.
As noted above, two new pedestrian crossings are to be installed at Sandymount Green and these can be expected to help reduce potential effects due to displaced traffic.
Should monitoring indicate a need, further standard traffic management interventions can be implemented to ameliorate effects of traffic displacement due to the Strand Road scheme, particularly in the local Sandymount area. Such intervention would be within the normal remit of DCC.

https://www.dublincity.ie/sites/default/files/2021-01/eia-screening-report-for-strand-rd.-trial-cycle-route.pdf

cgcsb · 24-02-2021 06:13PM

Is there anything being done to connect the DL route to the Sandymount Road route or do you just have to go out onto the Rock Road and Ringsend road?

These schemes should really be joined up if they're to be successful.

Larbre34 · 24-02-2021 06:22PM

cgcsb wrote: »

Is there anything being done to connect the DL route to the Sandymount Road route or do you just have to go out onto the Rock Road and Ringsend road?

These schemes should really be joined up if they're to be successful.

The longstanding Sutton 2 Sandycove objective had a near continuous off road cycleway as the optimum solution, but DCCs Strand Road plan makes that kind of connectivity impossible.

However it would be unfair to ignore the decent cycleway on the DLR section of the Blackrock / Merrion Road from Monkstown to the county boundary at the Applegreen service station, its only DCC that have persisted with the bizarre shared bus and cycle lane design in their administrative area north of that point.

Trudee · 24-02-2021 06:38PM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

...what?
If you read the screening report you'll see the following...

https://www.dublincity.ie/sites/default/files/2021-01/eia-screening-report-for-strand-rd.-trial-cycle-route.pdf

None of the above is of any use to Serpentine Avenue/Merrion Road junction for Monday; traffic lights on Sandymount Green are of no use to someone crossing at Serpentine Avenue. DCC have already said in Final Report on Strand Road Cycle Trial page 20 that Serpentine Avenue/Tritonville Road is ‘the route which will require the most careful monitoring’.
The traffic lights installed on Sandymount Green were not part of Strand Road Trial they were a separate measure which Cllr’s and others had been looking for for several years.

Peregrine · 24-02-2021 06:40PM

PaulieC wrote: »

Jesus wept... how the f**k do you people manage to stay alive day to day ?

Didn't realise wanting pedestrian crossings on all arms of the junction outside the RDS means I struggle to stay alive. Weren't you giving out to me about polarity a few weeks ago?

Cycleway trial on Strand Road or not, there should be pedestrian crossings on all three arms of that junction. One safe crossing 50m away from the junction which doesn't allow two of the three possible crossing combinations at the Serpentine Avenue junction plus one unsafe uncontrolled crossing at the junction that's completely unsuitable for children and people with reduced mobility is just not good enough. Everyone would benefit from safety improvements on that junction. There are sub-standard junctions like this all down the Merrion Road.

Sadly, I think if the opponents on Serpentine Avenue, Tritonville Road and Claremont Road had actually focused on how to improve this plan and not on how to torpedo it, they may have gotten these pedestrian crossings and the area would have been a better place for it. I'll raise it with DCC and hopefully it can be installed soon.

PaulieC · 24-02-2021 06:40PM

duskyjoe wrote: »

Trudee is right - that junction has always been lethal for PEDs.... DCC have really messed up here not addressing it re the cycle track going in

again, the use of hyberbole to describe a pedestrian crossing is very interesting

Seth Brundle · 24-02-2021 06:45PM

Trudee wrote: »

None of the above is of any use to Serpentine Avenue/Merrion Road junction for Monday; traffic lights on Sandymount Green are of no use to someone crossing at Serpentine Avenue. DCC have already said in Final Report on Strand Road Cycle Trial page 20 that Serpentine Avenue/Tritonville Road is ‘the route which will require the most careful monitoring’.
The traffic lights installed on Sandymount Green were not part of Strand Road Trial they were a separate measure which Cllr’s and others had been looking for for several years.

erm...

Should monitoring indicate a need, further standard traffic management interventions can be implemented to ameliorate effects of traffic displacement due to the Strand Road scheme, particularly in the local Sandymount area. Such intervention would be within the normal remit of DCC.

i.e. lights or other interventions will be added if required.
Your posts suggests that they are required so therefore one can assume that DCC will add them there.
Have you made your views known to any of the councillors though?

Trudee · 24-02-2021 06:53PM

I have made my views known on this junction for many years as I walk to work this way and for years my children walked to school by crossing at this Serpentine Ave/Merrion Road junction every day - it beggars belief that in 5 days time this junction will be the first right hand turn for all traffic coming in from Deansgrange/Blackrock and DCC have to date not done anything- the focus is on removing roundabouts etc along Strand Road.

Seth Brundle · 24-02-2021 06:55PM

Trudee wrote: »

I have made my views known on this junction for many years as I walk to work this way and for years my children walked to school by crossing at this Serpentine Ave/Merrion Road junction every day - it beggars belief that in 5 days time this junction will be the first right hand turn for all traffic coming in from Deansgrange/Blackrock and DCC have to date not done anything- the focus is on removing roundabouts etc along Strand Road.

Just to be clear, have you made your views known in writing?
What was the response?

Trudee · 24-02-2021 07:03PM

I have made my views known in writing and was told by a member of DCC that a design team would visit, maybe they did maybe they didn’t but right now Sandymount, Strand Road and Merrion gates is at full throttle so unless DCC have planned to send in a crack team that can realign junction between tonight and Sunday night it’s looking very much the same as it has been for years regardless of protestations

Seth Brundle · 24-02-2021 07:16PM

Trudee wrote: »

I have made my views known in writing and was told by a member of DCC that a design team would visit, maybe they did maybe they didn’t but right now Sandymount, Strand Road and Merrion gates is at full throttle so unless DCC have planned to send in a crack team that can realign junction between tonight and Sunday night it’s looking very much the same as it has been for years regardless of protestations

...and have you mentioned your concerns to your elected representatives?
Some of them are quite aware of the improper prioritisation of cars over vulnerable road users which this project is about (whilst unfortunately some seem to prefer the prioritisation of cars, etc.)

magicbastarder · 24-02-2021 07:17PM

PaulieC wrote: »

I've attached an aerial view for your perusal. Marked it up for you too. Your use of hyperbole is interesting.

umm... we cyclists complain a lot about councils magicking 'infrastructure' out of thin air with a couple of lines of paint. this pedestrian 'crossing' appears to be more of the same. it's not controlled; there is no button to request pedestrian lights to cross, nor are there pedestrian lights. the only thing here is a small island in the centre to 'shelter' in while halfway across the road.

how do people manage to stay alive day to day, you ask? i would not regard that as an adequate crossing for someone trying to herd kids, for example.

they should either provide a proper crossing, or not bother with the pretence of one. it's an R road, not a boreen.

Peregrine · 24-02-2021 07:23PM

I've just requested pedestrian crossings on the Serpentine Avenue junction along with a reduced corner radius in the interest of pedestrian safety. It should have been done years ago and I'm disappointed that the local opposition groups didn't use their considerable voice constructively and call for this. I'd appreciate if others would make a similar request. It's a win for everyone.

https://consultation.dublincity.ie/traffic-and-transport/covid-mobility-measure-request-form/

Trudee · 24-02-2021 07:24PM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

...and have you mentioned your concerns to your elected representatives?
Some of them are quite aware of the improper prioritisation of cars over vulnerable road users which this project is about (whilst unfortunately some seem to prefer the prioritisation of cars, etc.)

I have made my views known to my local elected representatives but at the end of the day it is DCC/NTA who have taken the decision to close Merrion Gates 1st March without putting in place safety measures for the pedestrians and cyclists who will be using this junction

silverharp · 24-02-2021 07:43PM

I must have been up and down Serpentine hundreds of times over the years. Unlike Sandymount avenue, it doesnt have a Dart station so the amount of pedestrians would be limited. If you are coming from Ballsbridge you would cross up the way and there is no real reason to be walking from the other direction or you would cross at the Simmonscourt junction. I could see a case for a pedestrian crossing on Serpentine itself maybe.

Trudee · 24-02-2021 08:04PM

And what about all the people who arrive in cars and park from top of Serpentine down as far as end Tritonville Road when going to matches or concerts do they not count as pedestrians once they get onto footpath? I take it you have not been at this junction on a match day or concert/RDS event. Even on a regular day Serpentine has loads of people walking up and down so not sure how you arrive at limited pedestrians and even if there was only 1 person a day walking from Serpentine across Merrion Road junction they are entitled to be able to cross safely.

silverharp · 24-02-2021 08:34PM

Trudee wrote: »

And what about all the people who arrive in cars and park from top of Serpentine down as far as end Tritonville Road when going to matches or concerts do they not count as pedestrians once they get onto footpath? I take it you have not been at this junction on a match day or concert/RDS event. Even on a regular day Serpentine has loads of people walking up and down so not sure how you arrive at limited pedestrians and even if there was only 1 person a day walking from Serpentine across Merrion Road junction they are entitled to be able to cross safely.

on match days its chaos anyway, people will just be wandering where they like. I assume there has to be a balance, more traffic lights would slow the main road and Merrion road is an important route for buses

CHESSMUTANT · 24-02-2021 08:54PM

silverharp wrote: »

Ill be happy so long at there are not lines of traffic back into the village as that would be new.

Where is this magical place in Dublin that's never had traffic congestion?

Trudee · 24-02-2021 08:59PM

It is not about more traffic lights it's about reconfiguring the current set of lights at this junction because from Monday this will be the first turn right once Merrion Gates are closed which DCC/NTA say will be from Monday 1st March, first turn right along this busy route and no pedestrian lights for people to cross from one side to other - buses are not affected one way or the other whether this week or from next week the bus lane is as it is

Trudee · 24-02-2021 10:01PM

Well they are going somewhere- the RDS mainly whether it’s to vote in elections such as the Moldovan elections held there recently or the Horse Show or conferences etc so unless the RDS want to stop hosting events I don’t see that happening anytime soon

AndrewJRenko · 24-02-2021 10:47PM

Weepsie wrote: »

You should be questioning the decision to allow people park on this roads in the first place. Far, far, far too much public road space is given over to private vehicles going nowhere.

Speaking of which;
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/drivers-must-pay-690-to-park-outside-own-homes-in-plan-to-cut-pollution-k3h77wpx6

CramCycle · 25-02-2021 09:36AM

I was quite surprised there was no ped lights on Merrion Road, right beside Serepentine avenue, I cycled through their for years, now no issues for peds crossing at peak traffic as traffic was at a standstill but I really thought they got a crossing when the right turn light went on. Either way, except for cost, its an easy solution. Put ped lights on there and link it to the right turn light, then put ped lights on Serpentine Avenue and have the merrion road lights change to a straight ahead and left filter to allow the pedestrian crossing. That alone will accomodate pedestrians but it will probably have more of an affect on traffic than the entire works carried out on the strand road. Personally it should be done, but then I also feel they should get rid of the left hand driving lane for cars before their in the direction of town and make that a bus lane. It would certainly encourage bus use, and then they would have to stop the right hand turn onto Serpentine as it would be a log jam.

p15574 · 25-02-2021 10:05AM

silverharp wrote: »

The Merrion centre is the main Supermarket for people in Sandymount, there will now be no direct way to get home, you essentially need to drive up to the carriageway and come back by Donnybrook church do a 2k trip would become a 4 or 5k one.

As stated elsewhere, a left & a U turn at Sydney Parade would sort. My main point is, though, is this: As with every single argument relating to diverting traffic somewhat, if you are in a car, you have an engine under you that can effortlessly take you anywhere, it's not that difficult. An extra 500m means nothing.

On the other hand - and this is more related to suggested cycling diversion routes around Rathmines, I think - when you're cycling, you're under your own steam. If it's lashing rain and you're just trying to get to your destination, you're always going to take the direct route, not the extra-kilometre-in-the-direction-you're-not-going one. Having said that, I certainly will be taking a diversion some days from my usual cycle commute from town to South city to use the Strand Road route as it will be such a beautiful cycle when it's safe.

site_owner · 25-02-2021 01:00PM

Any insiders know what time the arguments are being heard?

Seth Brundle · 25-02-2021 01:06PM

I can't see anything on http://legaldiary.courts.ie/legaldiary.nsf/high-court/8BA61A2CCF3D188880258686005039EC?OpenDocument for it (I'm not sure who is hearing it or what the description is).

Strangely, I do see this which I'm assuming is for the development beside Connolly Station...

FOR ELECTRONIC JUDGMENT
MR JUSTICE MC DONALD
2020 248 JR DUBLIN CYCLING CAMPAIGN CLG -V- AN BORD PLEANALA

Fighting Tao · 25-02-2021 01:11PM

site_owner wrote: »

Any insiders know what time the arguments are being heard?

I’m expecting live updates from inside the courthouse from our resident expert

Peregrine · 25-02-2021 03:41PM

Dublin City Council's Parks Department have made some changes to the Strand Road plan. More planters, benches and bike parking. Local opponents: ban this sick filth.

Thelonious Monk · 25-02-2021 03:42PM

Still no word on court today?

buffalo · 25-02-2021 03:49PM

Peregrine wrote: »

Dublin City Council's Parks Department have made some changes to the Strand Road plan. More planters, benches and bike parking. Local opponents: ban this sick filth.

Look at all that lovely reclaimed space! I'm fierce jealous.

cgcsb · 25-02-2021 03:55PM

I'm taking bets now.

By May when all the re-landscaping is done, the mini roundabouts are gone, there's less traffic, lots of people walking cycling and sitting on benches etc.

The Sandymount residents crowd will be acting like it was a brilliant idea and they were 100% for it the whole time, and those that weren't were ignorant. It'll be Sandymount's equivalent to the divorce referendum, i.e. nobody remembers opposing it.

Cycle infrastructure planned for south Dublin

Comments