Spin off from David gone dairying

wrangler · 19-02-2021 8:43am #1

squinn2912 wrote: »

Congratulations a fantastic achievement! Best of luck with it all. Saw a fella Wilson on Ear to the Ground there this evening and it reminded me of this thread. Thanks for all the updates it’s been great reading about your journey.

Wilson is a neighbour , he is some worker he did all that building himself as well as working all over the place, he really has so little and yet so optimistic and proud of his herd, He works in the local grennans and it's lovely to listen to him.
Always think it's a good sign that he's not tractor mad ,that he actually likes farming for the stock.
Of course I think he's wasted to be thinking of farming.
He used to be feeding beef, but last january when he got his first cheque and only a few milking, he remarked that if he wanted that much money before he'd have to sell a bull, but this year he has the money and six or seven calves as well,
As i said before a lovely lad to talk to

morphy87 · 19-02-2021 12:54pm

wrangler wrote: »

Wilson is a neighbour , he is some worker he did all that building himself as well as working all over the place, he really has so little and yet so optimistic and proud of his herd, He works in the local grennans and it's lovely to listen to him.
Always think it's a good sign that he's not tractor mad ,that he actually likes farming for the stock.
Of course I think he's wasted to be thinking of farming.
He used to be feeding beef, but last january when he got his first cheque and only a few milking, he remarked that if he wanted that much money before he'd have to sell a bull, but this year he has the money and six or seven calves as well,
As i said before a lovely lad to talk to

Saw him last night, I miss heard what he said, did he say he was milking 44 cows on 25 acres? It looked a fine setup for the money he spent, it was nice for a change to go and meet and talk to a small producer

wrangler · 19-02-2021 1:05pm

morphy87 wrote: »

Saw him last night, I miss heard what he said, did he say he was milking 44 cows on 25 acres? It looked a fine setup for the money he spent, it was nice for a change to go and meet and talk to a small producer

Yea, he's using a lot of meal and his uncle that was there is helping him with silage, I've no doubt he'll get a system for himself

Water John · 19-02-2021 1:11pm

Fair play to him, making his own choices. Think he said he aimed to get to 70 cows at some point. Really 70/80 cows should return a wage to a family. It is full time work for a family member plus.

Bass Reeves · 19-02-2021 3:00pm

Water John wrote: »

Fair play to him, making his own choices. Think he said he aimed to get to 70 cows at some point. Really 70/80 cows should return a wage to a family. It is full time work for a family member plus.

75 cows hitting 5500litres per head would leave a turnover of about 135k not Inc culls or calves. Say you managed to keep costs to 50k, it would leave 80k allowing you to take 20k out the side door, 20k for capital allowances investment and a 40k taxable Income. A land bank of 100+acres would be needed ideally a bit above that.

Water John · 19-02-2021 4:57pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

75 cows hitting 5500litres per head would leave a turnover of about 135k not Inc culls or calves. Say you managed to keep costs to 50k, it would leave 80k allowing you to take 20k out the side door, 20k for capital allowances investment and a 40k taxable Income. A land bank of 100+acres would be needed ideally a bit above that.

Sorry Bass, not a chance of keeping costs to €0.125c/l Maybe make the €40K but no side door.

Mooooo · 19-02-2021 6:11pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

75 cows hitting 5500litres per head would leave a turnover of about 135k not Inc culls or calves. Say you managed to keep costs to 50k, it would leave 80k allowing you to take 20k out the side door, 20k for capital allowances investment and a 40k taxable Income. A land bank of 100+acres would be needed ideally a bit above that.

Costs of 12c/ L??? Dreamland there I'm afraid....

Jjameson · 19-02-2021 6:49pm

Mooooo wrote: »

Costs of 12c/ L??? Dreamland there I'm afraid....

That’s all well and good but in a discussion it is courtesy to assert your argument with some figures. Talk in drystock terms. No land or self labour charge and Before capital expenses where is it at?

Water John · 19-02-2021 7:04pm

€19/20c/l might be closer to the mark. I'm not criticising Bass who did put figures for discussion. An income around €35K.

Mooooo · 19-02-2021 7:34pm

Jjameson wrote: »

That’s all well and good but in a discussion it is courtesy to assert your argument with some figures. Talk in drystock terms. No land or self labour charge and Before capital expenses where is it at?

My costs, with no labour charge for myself or capital part of repayments were 26cent. Put in 40k wages it brings it to 30 cent. Capital portion of repayments would add another 3.5 to 4c and tax on top as they are post tax

Bass Reeves · 19-02-2021 7:39pm

Mooooo wrote: »

My costs, with no labour charge for myself or capital part of repayments were 26cent. Put in 40k wages it brings it to 30 cent. Capital portion of repayments would add another 3.5 to 4c and tax on top as they are post tax

I could nearly take 40k out of a 100acre drystock farm. I say that lad Wilson's costs are nearer 10c/L than 20c/L and they could be on the other side of 10c/L.
What is going out the side door

jaymla627 · 19-02-2021 7:52pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I could nearly take 40k out of a 100acre drystock farm. I say that lad Wilson's costs are nearer 10c/L than 20c/L and they could be on the other side of 10c/L.
What is going out the side door

You may give Jack Kennedy back his calculator and get one that works

Water John · 19-02-2021 7:55pm

If Wilson is feeding high ration rates, his costs are high.

Say my name · 19-02-2021 7:58pm

Water John wrote: »

If Wilson is feeding high ration rates, his costs are high.

If Wilson is bringing in silage and zero grazing grass from his uncle's farm and carting out slurry, his costs are higher..

jntsnk · 19-02-2021 8:57pm

Time away from family and Working weekends . You’d want to be making more than 40k

grassroot1 · 19-02-2021 9:14pm

Would 80 milking cows give you a take home income of 40k per annum?

morphy87 · 19-02-2021 9:49pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I could nearly take 40k out of a 100acre drystock farm. I say that lad Wilson's costs are nearer 10c/L than 20c/L and they could be on the other side of 10c/L.
What is going out the side door

Would you mind me asking what do ye mean here by going out the side door?

richie123 · 19-02-2021 9:51pm

Mooooo wrote: »

My costs, with no labour charge for myself or capital part of repayments were 26cent. Put in 40k wages it brings it to 30 cent. Capital portion of repayments would add another 3.5 to 4c and tax on top as they are post tax

Most dairy men i know are incorporated now.
You need a serious tax bill to even consider company status.
A serious tax bill means decent profits in the first place.

jaymla627 · 19-02-2021 10:16pm

richie123 wrote: »

Most dairy men i know are incorporated now.
You need a serious tax bill to even consider company status.
A serious tax bill means decent profits in the first place.

Its lads jumping up from say 90 to 300 cows over a few years that are having to go company with stock relief been only at 25%, was blessed here that I got the five years of full stock relief before they brought in the 75k cap but if I hadn't of been able to get it I would of had crazy tax bills, say you go from 100 cows to 150 cows in one year if valued correctly 1300 ×50 is 65k less 25% leaves you with a on paper profit of 48k before you take a penny for yourself

Mooooo · 19-02-2021 10:35pm

richie123 wrote: »

Most dairy men i know are incorporated now.
You need a serious tax bill to even consider company status.
A serious tax bill means decent profits in the first place.

Was asked to give figures, gave mine. Thinking costs can be at 12c/ L is dreamland stuff. I'm sure lads are producing for lower costs than me but not 14c less. Re company status there is a lot more to take into account particularly if repayments etc are there to be made. Every farm would be at different stages.

straight · 19-02-2021 10:43pm

richie123 wrote: »

Most dairy men i know are incorporated now.
You need a serious tax bill to even consider company status.
A serious tax bill means decent profits in the first place.

That's profit before wages for yourself and loan repayments? Profit my hole.

Bass Reeves · 19-02-2021 11:20pm

morphy87 wrote: »

Would you mind me asking what do ye mean here by going out the side door?

Today I took the dog to the vet, the bill went on the farm account, the kids were paid wages that helped put them through college, there was 10k plus going out the side door at the time. I know a lad that wrote off 50 - 70% of a landscaping and doing up his drive.

That the side door similar to a lot of other businesses.

richie123 · 20-02-2021 12:11am

straight wrote: »

That's profit before wages for yourself and loan repayments? Profit my hole.

Yes it would be.

Hey u should try suckling or fattening cattle ...be some giving out done then

morphy87 · 20-02-2021 12:35am

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Today I took the dog to the vet, the bill went on the farm account, the kids were paid wages that helped put them through college, there was 10k plus going out the side door at the time. I know a lad that wrote off 50 - 70% of a landscaping and doing up his drive.

That the side door similar to a lot of other businesses.

I know what you mean now, like putting the expense of getting your car fixed or buying Tyres against your farm account

Bass Reeves · 20-02-2021 1:02am

morphy87 wrote: »

I know what you mean now, like putting the expense of getting your car fixed or buying Tyres against your farm account

Some of them are allowable anyway but ya you are on the right track

kerryjack · 20-02-2021 10:44am

jntsnk wrote: »

Time away from family and Working weekends . You’d want to be making more than 40k

Don't think you can say a lad working outside and in the milking parlour is time away from his family, like compare him to a man that's heading to dublin or London for a weeks work well that's a different story all together and if you are not happy with 40K a year you would want to have a look at your outgoings. I can live like a king on half that, I see it at work and lads chasing there tails for more hours more money, stressed to the limit paying massive mortgages and have serious out goings just to keep everything paid. These big houses you see scattered around the country are empty most of the day with 2 parents working and children in child care and all to pay for the big house and the 2 new cars. If that's progress I don't want to know about it.
Now to get back on topic great tread david great to see everything coming together for you.

K.G. · 20-02-2021 11:27am

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I could nearly take 40k out of a 100acre drystock farm. I say that lad Wilson's costs are nearer 10c/L than 20c/L and they could be on the other side of 10c/L.
What is going out the side door

Interested to hear the figures on 40 k from a 100 acres drystock farm.with the week we ve had i d consider changing

Siamsa Sessions · 20-02-2021 11:40am

kerryjack wrote: »

Don't think you can say a lad working outside and in the milking parlour is time away from his family, like compare him to a man that's heading to dublin or London for a weeks work well that's a different story all together and if you are not happy with 40K a year you would want to have a look at your outgoings. I can live like a king on half that, I see it at work and lads chasing there tails for more hours more money, stressed to the limit paying massive mortgages and have serious out goings just to keep everything paid. These big houses you see scattered around the country are empty most of the day with 2 parents working and children in child care and all to pay for the big house and the 2 new cars. If that's progress I don't want to know about it.
Now to get back on topic great tread david great to see everything coming together for you.

Great post - agree 100%.

Big stress for a big house that’s empty all day and silent in the evening coz the kids and their parents have nothing in common apart from expensive phones

Bass Reeves · 20-02-2021 12:19pm

K.G. wrote: »

Interested to hear the figures on 40 k from a 100 acres drystock farm.with the week we ve had i d consider changing

I did not say I could take 40 k I said I could take nearly 40k. Last year on about 60 acres I got over 70 cattle off with a gross 12 month margin of 650 euro. Animals that went off grass were leaving an average net margin of 300 euro. I killed about 10 out of the shed half of them left nothing and the rest left an average of 200 ish. Any cattle left next year that will not finish within 6 weeks of being housed are going back out to grass the following spring.

As I have said here often feeding ration is break even at best. On a 100 acre farm if I could finish 100 cattle. Thats 30 k. I do not spend the day around marts but if I did I expect to squeeze the margin a bit more.

Feeding cattle in a shed is a waste of time. I know it and got caught this year as I made a few bob from it last year. The simple fact if a dairy farmer can only extract 4Ok from a 70-80 cow operation he be as well off in dry stock and finding a job.especially if on decent land.

I say it again feeding ration is losing money it as simple as f@@king that. If you turn cattle now you must go out and bid against summer grazer's to replace them. So you end up losing on winter finished cattle and buying overvalued cattle to replace them. You are being a busy f@@king idiot

tanko · 20-02-2021 12:39pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I did not say I could take 40 k I said I could take nearly 40k. Last year on about 60 acres I got over 70 cattle off with a gross 12 month margin of 650 euro. Animals that went off grass were leaving an average net margin of 300 euro. I killed about 10 out of the shed half of them left nothing and the rest left an average of 200 ish. Any cattle left next year that will not finish within 6 weeks of being housed are going back out to grass the following spring.

As I have said here often feeding ration is break even at best. On a 100 acre farm if I could finish 100 cattle. Thats 30 k. I do not spend the day around marts but if I did I expect to squeeze the margin a bit more.

Feeding cattle in a shed is a waste of time. I know it and got caught this year as I made a few bob from it last year. The simple fact if a dairy farmer can only extract 4Ok from a 70-80 cow operation he be as well off in dry stock and finding a job.especially if on decent land.

I say it again feeding ration is losing money it as simple as f@@king that. If you turn cattle now you must go out and bid against summer grazer's to replace them. So you end up losing on winter finished cattle and buying overvalued cattle to replace them. You are being a busy f@@king idiot

Can a separate thread be set up for this shyte???

Bass Reeves · 20-02-2021 12:51pm

tanko wrote: »

Can a separate thread be set up for this shyte???

No because there is 2-3 threads going at present on dairy type start ups. There is dairy farmers claiming that the net margin per cow is back down at 500/ cow or less. If you look my posting on both threads I am pointing out the pro and cons of both compared to drystock. Any decent dairy operation should be aiming toward a few hundred per cow more than that. David has the scale and numbers to make it pay. The lad Wilson is aiming for a scale that may make it pay as well running a low cost operation.

On the other hand if you are 50 cows or less or depending on numbers on a small platform it takes a certain skillset to manage these. A lot of these lads with smaller numbers would be as well off with a job and a drystock operation. Milking cows and working is not really sustainable with a family as in most cases the wife will be working as welll

Spin off from David gone dairying

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