The way forward for LC2021

History Queen · 17-02-2021 06:53PM

Wombatman wrote: »

They're not trading anything in?!

April Lily · 17-02-2021 06:53PM

It was mentioned on newstalk that the minister intends to tender a new calculated grades algorithm model. If that’s the case, I can’t see students receiving their calculated grade in advance of sitting June exams. I’m also wondering if we will be restricted to using the data already collated or if data generated on our return can be used... ?

inbetweentea · 17-02-2021 06:54PM

With CG - does anyone have any idea when they would be issued by teachers? Now or May/June?

Wombatman · 17-02-2021 06:54PM

History Queen wrote: »

But it isn't really as they keep their predicted grade and if they sit the written exam they get the better of the two. It's no risk. Makes the LC much lower stakes, I wonder will that positively affect attainment?

The assumption was that there would be a choice between doing exam and PGs. The way this is structured, logic dictates, that you have to sit exam.

History Queen · 17-02-2021 06:54PM

April Lily wrote: »

It was mentioned on newstalk that the minister intends to tender a new calculated grades algorithm model. If that’s the case, I can’t see students receiving their calculated grade in advance of sitting June exams. I’m also wondering if we will be restricted to using the data already collated or if data generated on our return can be used... ?

They aren't getting the calculated grade until results day. They will get calculated grade or exam grade whichever is higher (or all calculated if don't sit exams)

History Queen · 17-02-2021 06:55PM

Wombatman wrote: »

The assumption was that there would be a choice between doing exam and PGs. The way this is structured, logic dictates, that you have to sit exam.

You don't have to sit exams. You can just get your calculated grade.

jayo76 · 17-02-2021 06:55PM

History Queen wrote: »

Not sure what formular the CG will go through this year but they are bringing in legislation to prevent teacher grade being revealled so its only the "post-algorithm" grade the students will see. I'll try find link I read that on there now

Even more reason for me as a teacher to advise them to take the exam if I think they are H1 or H2. Otherwise they could get a CG of H3 where unfortunately as they only see the post algorithm grade, they could believe that I shafted them.

History Queen · 17-02-2021 06:56PM

jayo76 wrote: »

Even more reason for me as a teacher to advise them to take the exam if I think they are H1 or H2. Otherwise they could get a CG of H3 where unfortunately as they only see the post algorithm grade, they could believe that I shafted them.

Absolutely. I'd advise all students to sit exams then they get the best of both.

Wombatman · 17-02-2021 07:00PM

History Queen wrote: »

You don't have to sit exams. You can just get your calculated grade.

What you you advise your students to do? What would you do if you were an LC student?

am_zarathustra · 17-02-2021 07:02PM

Wombatman wrote: »

What you you advise your students to do? What would you do if you were an LC student?

Both, I'll be talking to them tomorrow probably. Pressure slightly off but a chance for improvement and to avoid a random downgrade.......it's a no brainer

I can see them opting out of one or two exams

The HL OL CG versus paper thing will be interesting!

jayo76 · 17-02-2021 07:02PM

History Queen wrote: »

Absolutely. I'd advise all students to sit exams then they get the best of both.

Absolutely now think that yes every student who has put in the work and I suppose even those that mightn't have should take the exam. They have a free shot to both outperform the CG and take any risk of being messed around by the moderation process out of it.

There will be students who will just take the CG risk and fair enough thats their choice too.

km79 · 17-02-2021 07:04PM

Orals and practicals going ahead
Don’t know how Dont know when as the song goes

The next outcry will be about the exam papers . Length , choice etc
Will the predicted grades be based on normal exams or truncated exams .....

r93kaey5p2izun · 17-02-2021 07:05PM

I would recommend they sit the exams. From a HL Maths point of view I would say those clinging on for bonus points should sit the OL paper as a safety net if allowed.

km79 · 17-02-2021 07:10PM

Nyla Worried Son wrote: »

I would recommend they sit the exams. From a HL Maths point of view I would say those clinging on for bonus points should sit the OL paper as a safety net if allowed.

I think it would be absolutely ridiculous tbh if they are allowed do that

am_zarathustra · 17-02-2021 07:15PM

km79 wrote: »

Orals and practicals going ahead
Don’t know how Dont know when as the song goes

The next outcry will be about the exam papers . Length , choice etc
Will the predicted grades be based on normal exams or truncated exams .....

I assume the alterations already made stand plus maybe extra? I'm not sure it's needed, I'm actually grand with the changes as they stand but it's subject specific

km79 wrote: »

I think it would be absolutely ridiculous tbh if they are allowed do that

I'd be worried about this, but I'll tell my students to avail of the loophole if it exists. Given the SEC were in the talks this year I'd have more confidence issues like this will have been considered

r93kaey5p2izun · 17-02-2021 07:15PM

km79 wrote: »

I think it would be absolutely ridiculous tbh if they are allowed do that

I disagree. Students have always been allowed to choose their level on the day and I think it would be absolutely unfair to change that for exams this year of all years.

Rosita · 17-02-2021 07:19PM

Wombatman wrote: »

The assumption was that there would be a choice between doing exam and PGs. The way this is structured, logic dictates, that you have to sit exam.

Not necessarily. Some will taken the calculated grade in a subject where they probably would not improve easily - maybe HL Irish or Maths , and concentrate energy on a smaller number of subjects. You'll have a mix - some who'll be happy at the prospect of no exams - many will be heading for say PLC courses where grades won't matter to them. (These don't gave the same profile as the 'Medicine in Trinity' brigade but there's more of them)

Others will see it as a chance to reduce workload and aim for their highest possible grade in a couple of subjects. There are many different approaches which are logical. Under a CAO system which counts six best subjects it would seem illogical to sit all exams anyway.

am_zarathustra · 17-02-2021 07:24PM

I'd imagine you'd be best sticking with exams in 4/5 if your a good student to maximize but there are so many permutations that it will be very individual the decisions that are made.

Wombatman · 17-02-2021 07:30PM

As requested by the student representatives we explored thoroughly the option of providing the SEC-Accredited Grades to students in advance of the written examinations, but this option is not possible.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/e882f-minister-foley-confirms-leaving-certificate-2021-written-coursework-oral-and-practical-performance-examinations-will-be-held-and-a-corresponding-process-of-grades-accredited-by-state-examinations-commission-will-be-available-to-students/

History Queen · 17-02-2021 07:31PM

Wombatman wrote: »

What you you advise your students to do? What would you do if you were an LC student?

Do the exam. But there is no compulsion.

Mmmml80 · 17-02-2021 07:34PM

Orals and practicals to take place over 2 days during the Easter break, according to Norma on Six One. How’s this going to happen? Did she mean over two weeks maybe?

Wombatman · 17-02-2021 07:36PM

History Queen wrote: »

Do the exam. But there is no compulsion.

There is no compulsion to eat but logic dictates that you should.

Hobson's choice.

History Queen · 17-02-2021 07:38PM

Wombatman wrote: »

There is no compulsion to eat but logic dictates that you should.

Hobson's choice.

What are you on about? Do you think students are being effectively forced to sit exams? They aren't and there will be students that won't.

am_zarathustra · 17-02-2021 07:39PM

Mmmml80 wrote: »

Orals and practicals to take place over 2 days during the Easter break, according to Norma on Six One. How’s this going to happen? Did she mean over two weeks maybe?

I assume she meant 2 weeks, they need to recruit sharpish but they will get more this way, principals weren't going to release during school time

Str8outtaWuhan · 17-02-2021 07:49PM

That's the LC gone then. Teachers assessing students for state certification, no way back from this. Every year it will be more focus on CA and PG and less on terminal exams. until finally June is just another month in schools. Can't believe unions accepting this.

Random sample · 17-02-2021 07:52PM

Str8outtaWuhan wrote: »

That's the LC gone then. Teachers assessing students for state certification, no way back from this. Every year it will be more focus on CA and PG and less on terminal exams. until finally June is just another month in schools. Can't believe unions accepting this.

Where are you getting any of that from? Are you a teacher?

wirelessdude01 · 17-02-2021 07:55PM

Str8outtaWuhan wrote: »

That's the LC gone then. Teachers assessing students for state certification, no way back from this. Every year it will be more focus on CA and PG and less on terminal exams. until finally June is just another month in schools. Can't believe unions accepting this.

This would not surprise me.

sue97 · 17-02-2021 07:55PM

My worry is that points will go through the roof and great leaving cert results will be deflated e.g. Biomed in TCD was 509 in 2018 and 543 last year. Law and Business 2018 - 577 and 2020 - 601.

Str8outtaWuhan · 17-02-2021 07:57PM

Random sample wrote: »

Where are you getting any of that from? Are you a teacher?

Nope, but I live with one. unions said PG a once off last yr and SEC were not running it last yr . This yr PG back and SEC running yet. adding 2+2 it makes sense. Plus they will be expecting subject teachers to be on site for practicals in Easter? so thats your easter hols gone.

Rosita · 17-02-2021 07:57PM

am_zarathustra wrote: »

I assume she meant 2 weeks, they need to recruit sharpish but they will get more this way, principals weren't going to release during school time

I expect the matter of the orals will be revisited, for many reasons.

The way forward for LC2021

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