Average V Median wage Ireland?

17-02-2021 11:27AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

remember now!

The earn fnck all don't have their hand out?

Wanderer78 · 17-02-2021 11:27AM

Augeo wrote: »

The earn fnck all don't have their hand out?

what?

crossman47 · 17-02-2021 11:28AM

Benedict wrote: »

Incidentally, surely in order to establish the average, enough data must be available to also establish the median!

.

That is not true. some earnings series compiled by CSO are based on aggregate returns from employers i.e. total employees, total earnings, etc. from these you can get a mean but not a median. I think they distinguish full time so you can also get a mean for those.

Another series that does have a median comes from tax returns for individuals but these do not distinguish full and part time. Its not as easy as you seem to think. Nobody is trying to fool anyone .

stefanovich · 17-02-2021 11:28AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i ll stick with respected economic commentators opinions, and the facts that are used, and the facts that i have found myself

Micheal Hudson is a communist though. Generally not a good idea to listen to them when it comes to economics. They just want big government at any cost.

crossman47 · 17-02-2021 11:29AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i ll stick with respected economic commentators opinions, and the facts that are used, and the facts that i have found myself

So ESRI are not respected?

Wanderer78 · 17-02-2021 11:29AM

stefanovich wrote: »

Micheal Hudson is a communist though. Generally not a good idea to listen to them when it comes to economics. They just want big government at any cost.

no hes not, he classes himself as a classical economist, and no, he doesn't advocate for big government, just a democratic one

Wanderer78 · 17-02-2021 11:30AM

crossman47 wrote: »

So ESRI are not respected?

of course they are, but they have inbuilt biases, as do all institutions

Benedict · 17-02-2021 11:49AM

crossman47 wrote: »

That is not true. some earnings series compiled by CSO are based on aggregate returns from employers i.e. total employees, total earnings, etc. from these you can get a mean but not a median. I think they distinguish full time so you can also get a mean for those.

Another series that does have a median comes from tax returns for individuals but these do not distinguish full and part time. Its not as easy as you seem to think. Nobody is trying to fool anyone .

I don't think it's "easy" but surely it's doable? Does nobody have sufficient data to establish a median wage figure for FT workers?

To establish the average, the total wages must be known and also the number of earners. And nobody is able to calculate the median?

Is that the same in every country I wonder? Or are we unique in not being able to calculate a median FT wage/salary?

Eric Cartman · 17-02-2021 11:52AM

Cyrus wrote: »

i remember re nua ran on an economic platform advocating a flat tax, they got no traction.

in reality it makes a lot of sense and removes the disincentive for progression that exists at the crossover between between the low and high rate.

They got no traction because of their stance on abortion. A fiscally conservative party with a free vote on social issues is what we need, not bible thumpers with 1 good idea

Cyrus · 17-02-2021 11:57AM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

They got no traction because of their stance on abortion. A fiscally conservative party with a free vote on social issues is what we need, not bible thumpers with 1 good idea

abortion ref was 66/34 so technically a 3rd of people wouldnt have had an issue with their stance in that regard, so it wasn't just abortion.

also you dont need to be a bible thumper to be anti abortion.

Benedict · 17-02-2021 11:57AM

Copied and pasted from Google some minutes ago:

Showing results for median wage full time workers england

Median annual earnings for full-time employees in the United Kingdom from 1999 to 2020 (in GBP)
Average earnings in GBP
2020 31,461
2019 30,378
2018 29,559
2017 28,759
9 more rows•
3 Feb 2021

Geuze · 17-02-2021 12:09PM

Tommy Muscular Tether wrote: »

According to the ERSI income inequality in Ireland is falling.

Correct.

Income inequality has fallen in Ireland.

Now, it is possible to debate that the measures of income inequality only measure income, and don't take a wider view, fair enough.

Michael Taft is arguing that:

https://notesonthefront.typepad.com/politicaleconomy/2021/02/the-gini-coefficient-and-sushi.html

Geuze · 17-02-2021 12:10PM

crossman47 wrote: »

That is not true. some earnings series compiled by CSO are based on aggregate returns from employers i.e. total employees, total earnings, etc. from these you can get a mean but not a median. I think they distinguish full time so you can also get a mean for those.

Another series that does have a median comes from tax returns for individuals but these do not distinguish full and part time. Its not as easy as you seem to think. Nobody is trying to fool anyone .

This post is helpful.

I thought there must be a reason why median FT earnings aren't published.

Wanderer78 · 17-02-2021 12:11PM

Geuze wrote: »

Correct.

Income inequality has fallen in Ireland.

Now, it is possible to debate that the measures of income inequality only measure income, and don't take a wider view, fair enough.

Michael Taft is arguing that:

https://notesonthefront.typepad.com/politicaleconomy/2021/02/the-gini-coefficient-and-sushi.html

what about overall wealth inequality?

Geuze · 17-02-2021 12:12PM

Benedict wrote: »

I don't think it's "easy" but surely it's doable? Does nobody have sufficient data to establish a median wage figure for FT workers?

I provided the Eurostat figures for Ireland a few pages back.

Chips Lovell · 17-02-2021 12:18PM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

what about overall wealth inequality?

CSO measures it every five years. Last one was 2018 and saw wealth inequality declining:

The Gini coefficient for net wealth in 2018 is 0.67, compared to 0.75 in 2013, indicating a reduction in wealth inequality over this five-year period.

Wanderer78 · 17-02-2021 12:20PM

Chips Lovell wrote: »

CSO measures it every five years. Last one was 2018 and saw wealth inequality declining:

we generally store our wealth in assets, primarily in property and land, whats currently occurring in these sectors, also baring in mind, many younger generations are also living in a low wage inflationary environment?

Benedict · 17-02-2021 12:21PM

Geuze wrote: »

I provided the Eurostat figures for Ireland a few pages back.

Apologies Geuze, I understood that a median on FT wages was not available - could you indulge me and repeat the figure - if you know it? Perhaps I became muddled by graphs, figures etc.

My question is, what is the median wage for FT workers?

UK for 2020 median FT wages are 2020 £31,461 Euro 36k approx at today's conversion rates.

stefanovich · 17-02-2021 12:25PM

Benedict wrote: »

Apologies Geuze, I understood that a median on FT wages was not available - could you indulge me and repeat the figure - if you know it? Perhaps I became muddled by graphs, figures etc.

My question is, what is the median wage for FT workers?

You need to know individual salaries to calculate that.

Revenue should have that data.

Benedict · 17-02-2021 12:30PM

stefanovich wrote: »

You need to know individual salaries to calculate that.

Revenue should have that data.

Should have - yes, but I can't find it - can you?

Geuze appears to have the elusive figure. Hopefully he will tell us what it is.

The UK have published the median FT wage as I have shown.

crossman47 · 17-02-2021 12:55PM

stefanovich wrote: »

You need to know individual salaries to calculate that.

Revenue should have that data.

I don't think Revenue use full/part time as a classification. I was never asked which I am and they don't ask for hours worked.

crossman47 · 17-02-2021 01:05PM

Benedict wrote: »

Should have - yes, but I can't find it - can you?

Geuze appears to have the elusive figure. Hopefully he will tell us what it is.

The UK have published the median FT wage as I have shown.

I think the problem is that CSO have replaced the Structure of Earnings Survey (which gave a median for 2014) with data based on administrative sources (Revenue) https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-eaads/earningsanalysisusingadministrativedatasources2018/backgroundnotes/.

This specifically states full and part time are not distinguished. No doubt this was an attempt by CSO to use existing sources and not burden employers with further form filling.

I did post this estimate already : In 2018 for all workers, the median was 36k when the mean was 44k. Based on that, I would think the median for full time workers must be in the region of 38 to 41K. I don't think its possible for CSO to calculate a median as they base their data on aggregate data from employers.

ELM327 · 17-02-2021 01:25PM

crossman47 wrote: »

I think the problem is that CSO have replaced the Structure of Earnings Survey (which gave a median for 2014) with data based on administrative sources (Revenue) https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-eaads/earningsanalysisusingadministrativedatasources2018/backgroundnotes/.

This specifically states full and part time are not distinguished. No doubt this was an attempt by CSO to use existing sources and not burden employers with further form filling.

I did post this estimate already : In 2018 for all workers, the median was 36k when the mean was 44k. Based on that, I would think the median for full time workers must be in the region of 38 to 41K. I don't think its possible for CSO to calculate a median as they base their data on aggregate data from employers.

The median is skewed as most large companies provide mean average salaries rather than person per person info.

Geuze · 17-02-2021 01:42PM

Benedict wrote: »

Apologies Geuze, I understood that a median on FT wages was not available - could you indulge me and repeat the figure - if you know it? Perhaps I became muddled by graphs, figures etc.

See posts 106 and 107.

Also 44, 45, 46.

crossman47 · 17-02-2021 02:40PM

ELM327 wrote: »

The median is skewed as most large companies provide mean average salaries rather than person per person info.

My point was they provide aggregates so it is not possible to calculate a median.

Benedict · 17-02-2021 03:11PM

Geuze wrote: »

See posts 106 and 107.

Also 44, 45, 46.

Look Geuze, Leo is able to give a figure and say this is the average. He doesn't present us with a litany of "income by age" "income by sex" blah blah.

It's a single figure just below 49k

The UK median wages for FT workers is a single figure - not a plethora of graphs and a litany of qualifications.

As far as you are aware:

(a) is there a figure for a median salary/wages for FT worker?
(b) do you know what it is?
(c) If you know, can you just say what it is ple-e-ease?
(d) If you don't know, then thanks anyway - but please say so.

stefanovich · 17-02-2021 03:25PM

Benedict wrote: »

Look Geuze, Leo is able to give a figure and say this is the average. He doesn't present us with a litany of "income by age" "income by sex" blah blah.

It's a single figure just below 49k

The UK median wages for FT workers is a single figure - not a plethora of graphs and a litany of qualifications.

As far as you are aware:

(a) is there a figure for a median salary/wages for FT worker?
(b) do you know what it is?
(c) If you know, can you just say what it is ple-e-ease?
(d) If you don't know, then thanks anyway - but please say so.

https://data.gov.ie/dataset/bution-of-income-tax-by-type-of-gross-income-range-of-gross-income-marital-status-year-and-statistic

Benedict · 17-02-2021 03:31PM

stefanovich wrote: »

https://data.gov.ie/dataset/bution-of-income-tax-by-type-of-gross-income-range-of-gross-income-marital-status-year-and-statistic

Still don't see any figure for median wage for FT workers?

con___manx1 · 17-02-2021 03:35PM

Larbre34 wrote: »

If that's what you really believe, that the particulars of jobs employers can't quickly fill, are an accurate portrayal of employment and salaries in Ireland, then I don't know where to begin with explaining how stupid your outlook is.

Do you have any concept of the number of jobs and sectors that never get near being advertised and the salaries that accompany them?

Good lord.

Legally company's have to advertise any positions that become available even if the job is already stitched up. My brother was offered a job and it was still advertised. People went for interviews that were just pointless. I seen a similar situation happen in my company.

stefanovich · 17-02-2021 03:39PM

Benedict wrote: »

Still don't see any figure for median wage for FT workers?

You can figure it out approximately.

What stood out in the figures for 2018 in bold below. Why so many in the 100 -> 150 range? Seems anomalous. Public sector management?

<10K 423,603
10 - 12K 82,422
12 - 15K. 127,400
15 - 17K 86,951
17 - 20K 131,840
20 - 25K 217,946
25 - 27K 87,782
27 - 30K 124,223
30 - 35K 190,572
35 - 40K 166,339
40 - 50K 237,937
50 - 60K 169,338
60 - 70K 122,512
70 - 75K 48,838
75 - 80K 41,232
80 - 90K 64,390
90 - 100K 47,650
100 - 150K 107,186
150 - 200K 30,096
200 - 275K 15,520
>275K 15,054

Average V Median wage Ireland?

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