The way forward for LC2021

mtoutlemonde · 15-02-2021 07:13PM

Treppen wrote: »

What if a teacher says, sorry not enough info to go on!

Norma will be out to you with a stick

rainbowtrout · 15-02-2021 07:20PM

Bobtheman wrote: »

I suspect this will be part of the plan
Kids get PG in Early May.
Kids can accept Predicted grade or do an exam in late June.

Im only guessing here but I suspect it will be along those lines.

If predicted grades work in a similar manner to last year, then students can't get the grade in May. They'll get it in August along with the rest of the grades. Particularly if the DES can moderate them.

km79 · 15-02-2021 07:20PM

pandoraj09 wrote: »

So I've just heard that the orals are set to go ahead on April 12th ie the first day back after the Easter holidays. I was sure they'd be cancelled. Anyone else hear this?

No
Where did you hear this ?

Treppen · 15-02-2021 07:23PM

rainbowtrout wrote: »

If predicted grades work in a similar manner to last year, then students can't get the grade in May. They'll get it in August along with the rest of the grades. Particularly if the DES can moderate them.

But predicted grades on their own are a no-go / red line issue for unions I thought!

Is there something im missing as people keep saying it like it's a thing. Is this predicted-grade-only a thing now?

rainbowtrout · 15-02-2021 07:35PM

Treppen wrote: »

But predicted grades on their own are a no-go / red line issue for unions I thought!

Is there something im missing as people keep saying it like it's a thing. Is this predicted-grade-only a thing now?

Ultimately I think they'll offer an either/or scenario like last year but the exams will operate in June instead of November. I know this is not the position of the unions, but the DES are liable to do anything at this stage.

km79 · 15-02-2021 07:48PM

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Ultimately I think they'll offer an either/or scenario like last year but the exams will operate in June instead of November. I know this is not the position of the unions, but the DES are liable to do anything at this stage.

Thinking about it logically that would actually be fairer on students
They wouldn’t have a huge break between the end of their schooling and exams like they did last year
They work away and aim towards June as normal if they want
They also won’t have to wait another year for college
Everyone’s results out in August together
Prob the best that can be expected .

rainbowtrout · 15-02-2021 08:28PM

km79 wrote: »

Thinking about it logically that would actually be fairer on students
They wouldn’t have a huge break between the end of their schooling and exams like they did last year
They work away and aim towards June as normal if they want
They also won’t have to wait another year for college
Everyone’s results out in August together
Prob the best that can be expected .

Logistically it gets them all through the system in one go and you don't have a hangover of students who are deferring anyway, along with a winter cohort who need to be included the following year.

Str8outtaWuhan · 15-02-2021 08:31PM

km79 wrote: »

Thinking about it logically that would actually be fairer on students
They wouldn’t have a huge break between the end of their schooling and exams like they did last year
They work away and aim towards June as normal if they want
They also won’t have to wait another year for college
Everyone’s results out in August together
Prob the best that can be expected .

Where is the carrot for the unions? June exams , preserving their holidays? There surely must be some stick that forces some to opt for sit down exams else virtually everyone will go PG.

km79 · 15-02-2021 09:20PM

Str8outtaWuhan wrote: »

Where is the carrot for the unions? June exams , preserving their holidays? There surely must be some stick that forces some to opt for sit down exams else virtually everyone will go PG.

The carrot is this school year ends as quickly as possible

deiseindublin · 15-02-2021 09:32PM

I've an LC here that says they'd sit the exams if offered best of both, I'd say lots would. What's another 6 weeks at that stage?

km79 · 15-02-2021 09:37PM

deiseindublin wrote: »

I've an LC here that says they'd sit the exams if offered best of both, I'd say lots would. What's another 6 weeks at that stage?

That’s what I mean
Exams as normal in June as opposed to pushing them out

wirelessdude01 · 15-02-2021 09:38PM

Do people think they will allow students to pick and choose between them or you have to use the full hand from either CG or written?

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 15-02-2021 09:41PM

deiseindublin wrote: »

I've an LC here that says they'd sit the exams if offered best of both, I'd say lots would. What's another 6 weeks at that stage?

Did straw poll with my 6th years last week.

They'd all take predictive and maybe sit a paper or two, at most, if that's what's on offer.

They feel they could best a couple of predicted scores but probably not all of them if they had to take all exams on as wud be norm.

Stands to reason.

am_zarathustra · 15-02-2021 09:46PM

But at the end of the day, if everyone assumes that, and they standardise the predicted grades in one group and the exams as a concurrent but separate group they should take all the exams to be safe. Everyone can't pick and choose their best without most being downgraded

km79 · 15-02-2021 09:50PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Do people think they will allow students to pick and choose between them or you have to use the full hand from either CG or written?

Pick and choose but without knowing what they have got in PG

noplacehere · 15-02-2021 09:50PM

How on earth do they standardise exams versus predictive grading if they have a complete either or? I mean predictive grading is largely based on class tests and formative assessment. The LC is a summative assessment and there was massive over estimating on the calculated grades last year. They will have to be adjusted in some way to line them up surely?

Random sample · 15-02-2021 09:52PM

Normas Friday evening holding statement last week seemed to offer a choice. I think that’s madness. All of mine will pick predictive grades, and most of them will be disappointed with the results. They are 18, they are deluded, they are not in a position to make those decisions whatever issu say.

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 15-02-2021 09:58PM

km79 wrote: »

Pick and choose but without knowing what they have got in PG

We all guessing but I think they might get the PG a month beforehand and have to decide then. Could be a way to keep them in school or doing lessons if they're not 100% sure til later in academic year.

Prob completely wrong.

am_zarathustra · 15-02-2021 10:03PM

They have to do them separately really. It's a mess, particular students will sit exams particular students will want the predictive. If standardising they would have to be done separately, as in bell curve them all. PG for everyone, bell curve that. Let those who want to take that grade, take it. The exams are then sat and standardized as normal. I wouldnt be sure but my guess is a lot of students will need to be downgraded in PG, the exam might be a safer bet in the end, at least your own ability or work ethic will be the only reason your grade is changed, not a random program doing God knows what!

jayo76 · 15-02-2021 10:06PM

Random sample wrote: »

Normas Friday evening holding statement last week seemed to offer a choice. I think that’s madness. All of mine will pick predictive grades, and most of them will be disappointed with the results. They are 18, they are deluded, they are not in a position to make those decisions whatever issu say.

Agreed that a huge amount will be disappointed with results. Lots of 6th years regardless of what they have got on average over the two years of LC have blinkers on as regards their likely result. Im not having a go with that statement, they are 18, they want the best but sometimes there is a total lack of reality.

The guidance counsellor came in to our staffroom the day after results were available last September to announce that huge numbers of last years 6th years were very upset, shocked at what teachers had given them as calculated grades. I understand it, I do as I outlined above so I listened politely until she mentioned two particular students. Both had failed multiple subjects in the mocks and generally done little to no work over the two years. They failed no subject in the calculated grades but here was the Counsellor announcing they should have done much better and had been on to her to make this clear.

This will be even more rife this year and again be the teachers fault of course. Calculated grades are a shambles, both for students like those outlined above and for teachers. They are also a shambles for the high achievers who got unfairly downgraded of course.

Random sample · 15-02-2021 10:43PM

jayo76 wrote: »

Agreed that a huge amount will be disappointed with results. Lots of 6th years regardless of what they have got on average over the two years of LC have blinkers on as regards their likely result. Im not having a go with that statement, they are 18, they want the best but sometimes there is a total lack of reality.

The guidance counsellor came in to our staffroom the day after results were available last September to announce that huge numbers of last years 6th years were very upset, shocked at what teachers had given them as calculated grades. I understand it, I do as I outlined above so I listened politely until she mentioned two particular students. Both had failed multiple subjects in the mocks and generally done little to no work over the two years. They failed no subject in the calculated grades but here was the Counsellor announcing they should have done much better and had been on to her to make this clear.

This will be even more rife this year and again be the teachers fault of course. Calculated grades are a shambles, both for students like those outlined above and for teachers. They are also a shambles for the high achievers who got unfairly downgraded of course.

And these 6th years won’t have the reality check that is a failed mock either.

Wombatman · 15-02-2021 10:45PM

Based on official statements, interviews and leaks its fair to stay students have a legitimate expectation of:

1. Some manner of LC exam in June.
2. Some manner of estimated grades.

In my view DES has a two conflicting objectives here.

Objective 1.
Fob as many students as possible off with PGs so the exams can be small scale with maybe 10 - 20% for students opting to do them.

This will involve getting's PGs complied by teachers, standardised and published before students opt for doing exams. It could take a couple of months to complete the PG process from start to finish.

So a reasonable timeline for this might be, start PG process mid March and publish results end of April. Most students, who get the points they need for their main choices, will be happy with that and down tools. Start of May to mid May, students will be asked to sign up for exams. Exams will start at very end of June.

Objective 2.
Keep students working away for as long as possible.

Really challenging couple of months ahead for everyone. Where orals, practicals and course work fit in God only knows.

I wouldn't be surprised it teachers get notified to begin the PG process in the next couple of weeks, with recommendations on how to build up required data, if it is not already there.

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 15-02-2021 10:53PM

What Wombatman said *thumbs up*

km79 · 15-02-2021 11:03PM

I’m sorry but there is NO WAY predicted grades can be generated by schools and verified by the SEC in 6-8 weeks with easter in the middle as well
It’s just not going to happen
These are important results
If it’s going to be done it has to be done properly

Predicted grades results will come out around August imo
The only question is whether students will be told choose to sit the exams in June without knowing their PG
Or
Wait till November again

I’ve a feeling it will be the former and the DEpt and SEC will bank on low numbers

Random sample · 15-02-2021 11:11PM

From a teachers perspective it makes more sense to have exams first. Predictive grades should be after the exams, for those who couldn’t sit them due to being a close contact or being in isolation.

I can’t get my head around giving everyone a free pass, when in 2019 a concession was to get 3 days off if your mother died during the exams.

am_zarathustra · 15-02-2021 11:15PM

km79 wrote: »

I’m sorry but there is NO WAY predicted grades can be generated by schools and verified by the SEC in 6-8 weeks with easter in the middle as well
It’s just not going to happen
These are important results
If it’s going to be done it has to be done properly

Predicted grades results will come out around August imo
The only question is whether students will be told choose to sit the exams in June without knowing their PG
Or
Wait till November again

I’ve a feeling it will be the former and the DEpt and SEC will bank on low numbers

Completely agree, literally impossible to have predicted grades in that timeline. We are having mocks type exams just before Easter but the last term is very long, having that not included would make PG even more of an excercise in fiction. The unions won't agree to it. If they need a new program (which Im guessing after the high court ruling comes down we will) that will need to be tendered for and then actually produced and maybe controversially tested. The DES are not that efficient. I'm guessing maybe blind going into exams, which hopefully will be in June, but in that case any teacher worth their salt would have to tell their students to sit the exam, I don't trust the PG system, I know I'll be telling them to sit the exams unless they have the confirmed results in their hands before! Even then, to be honest, I can't see the harm in sitting it anyway.....might suit them, the paper, or the standardising could work out.

am_zarathustra · 15-02-2021 11:22PM

Random sample wrote: »

From a teachers perspective it makes more sense to have exams first. Predictive grades should be after the exams, for those who couldn’t sit them due to being a close contact or being in isolation.

I can’t get my head around giving everyone a free pass, when in 2019 a concession was to get 3 days off if your mother died during the exams.

I was explaining that to someone a few weeks ago, many students in normal times have to sit exams in horrific situations......which is fine as long as it's not their poor Johnny, never crosses their mind normally

rainbowtrout · 15-02-2021 11:24PM

Random sample wrote: »

Normas Friday evening holding statement last week seemed to offer a choice. I think that’s madness. All of mine will pick predictive grades, and most of them will be disappointed with the results. They are 18, they are deluded, they are not in a position to make those decisions whatever issu say.

They're looking at the outcome of last year:

Grades were massively inflated and remained so even after adjustment
80% of grades were not downgraded after moderation
Opportunity to get at least what they think they are worth or better without sitting the exam.

Random sample · 15-02-2021 11:26PM

am_zarathustra wrote: »

I was explaining that to someone a few weeks ago, many students in normal times have to sit exams in horrific situations......which is fine as long as it's not their poor Johnny, never crosses their mind normally

And they were required to go to Athlone for the later resit too.

am_zarathustra · 15-02-2021 11:27PM

Random sample wrote: »

And they were required to go to Athlone for the later resit too.

I thought it was regional centres, either way, terrible

The way forward for LC2021

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