What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

monkeybutter · 11-02-2021 11:27AM

brickster69 wrote: »

You sure about that ?

https://twitter.com/HealthDataUK1/status/1359638361598808071/photo/1

their death stats reporting is very peaky, which is where 1000 per day comes from, but the trend us down for sure, maybe 750 per day is more accurate

still very high in comparison to here

bit of a disaster there still, total deaths 3 times higher than here, current deaths are the same

still under massive pressure looking at the numbers

any drops in active cases would take weeks to filter through

brickster69 · 11-02-2021 11:42AM

monkeybutter wrote: »

their death stats reporting is very peaky, which is where 1000 per day comes from, but the trend us down for sure, maybe 750 per day is more accurate

still very high in comparison to here

bit of a disaster there still, total deaths 3 times higher than here, current deaths are the same

still under massive pressure looking at the numbers

any drops in active cases would take weeks to filter through

Yeah true. But in January 100K people were admitted to hospital for Covid. So hospital admissions are dropping quickly which should ease pressure on the NHS not put it under more strain.

11-02-2021 11:48AM

Sam Russell wrote: »

I would guess it was political pressure that was put on AZ by the UK Gov. For the last two days, the UK has reported over 1,000 deaths from Covid. They are giving the first dose to as many as they can, but not giving the second dose to very many.

They have failed at so many stages in this dreadful disease, and hopefully their approach to vaccinations will work, even if it outside of the scientific evidence at the time they deployed it. The NHS is buckling under the overwhelming numbers presenting for treatment.

may I suggest some cream and sugar on those sour grapes?

Sam Russell · 11-02-2021 01:08PM

Aegir wrote: »

may I suggest some cream and sugar on those sour grapes?

No sour grapes.

The death rate in the UK for the past two days has been over 1,000 - that is shocking. Their death rate over the whole pandemic is 2.5 times ours over the same period - despite using a more restrictive definition of Covid death - 28 days from positive diagnosis vs our definition that includes any death after Covid diagnosis plus 'likely Covid' deaths.

A poor outcome from the UK Covid policies affects us as well, particularly with respect to NI.

robinph · 11-02-2021 01:15PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

No sour grapes.

The death rate in the UK for the past two days has been over 1,000 - that is shocking. Their death rate over the whole pandemic is 2.5 times ours over the same period - despite using a more restrictive definition of Covid death - 28 days from positive diagnosis vs our definition that includes any death after Covid diagnosis plus 'likely Covid' deaths.

A poor outcome from the UK Covid policies affects us as well, particularly with respect to NI.

Deaths reported was over 1000.

Deaths that occurred is highly unlikely to be over 1000 though unless an otherwise unexplained rise in deaths has started happening in the last two weeks with no other indicators to the rise in numbers changing. Deaths, as in the date they actually occurred, hasn't been over 1000 since 29th January:

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths

The other points you can have, but picking a single days stat from what is very noisy data isn't particularly useful other than for point scoring.

deeperlearning · 11-02-2021 01:22PM

The UK Government seem very worried at the moment.

Grant Shapps, the Transport Secretary, advised the public not to book summer holidays in UK or abroad

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/extend-travel-ban-to-stop-new-coronavirus-strains-arriving-ministers-told-055pkrbvs

11-02-2021 01:25PM

robinph wrote: »

Deaths reported was over 1000.

Deaths that occurred is highly unlikely to be over 1000 though unless an otherwise unexplained rise in deaths has started happening in the last two weeks with no other indicators to the rise in numbers changing. Deaths, as in the date they actually occurred, hasn't been over 1000 since 29th January:

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths

The other points you can have, but picking a single days stat from what is very noisy data isn't particularly useful other than for point scoring.

It’s also completely irrelevant to a thread about the Astra Zeneca vaccine and the EU’s poor response in getting it rolled out.

Sam Russell · 11-02-2021 01:28PM

robinph wrote: »

Deaths reported was over 1000.

Deaths that occurred is highly unlikely to be over 1000 though unless an otherwise unexplained rise in deaths has started happening in the last two weeks with no other indicators to the rise in numbers changing. Deaths, as in the date they actually occurred, hasn't been over 1000 since 29th January:

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths

The other points you can have, but picking a single days stat from what is very noisy data isn't particularly useful other than for point scoring.

Using the Worldometer data, all the UK stats are pretty bad, they are just after Belgium and Slovenia on deaths per million, and are about to hit 4 million cases - out of a population of 65 million - 6% of the population. Those are not single points of data.

They started to target herd immunity last March but quickly switched to other means of combatting the virus when that option was obviously hopeless. Now they have pinned all their efforts on single dose vaccine that requires a two dose regimen.

Hope it works for them.

brickster69 · 11-02-2021 01:31PM

AZ CEO reports global capacity to hit 200 Million / month before April

11-02-2021 01:46PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

Using the Worldometer data, all the UK stats are pretty bad, they are just after Belgium and Slovenia on deaths per million, and are about to hit 4 million cases - out of a population of 65 million - 6% of the population. Those are not single points of data.

They started to target herd immunity last March but quickly switched to other means of combatting the virus when that option was obviously hopeless. Now they have pinned all their efforts on single dose vaccine that requires a two dose regimen.

Hope it works for them.

Herd immunity was never a government option and is little more than the imagination of the Guardian and their readers.

Quite why you choose to raise it on a thread about the Astra Zeneca vaccine and the EU's poor roll out though is baffling

robinph · 11-02-2021 01:47PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

Using the Worldometer data, all the UK stats are pretty bad, they are just after Belgium and Slovenia on deaths per million, and are about to hit 4 million cases - out of a population of 65 million - 6% of the population. Those are not single points of data.

They started to target herd immunity last March but quickly switched to other means of combatting the virus when that option was obviously hopeless. Now they have pinned all their efforts on single dose vaccine that requires a two dose regimen.

Hope it works for them.

There are several different ways of using the word "point" going on here.

Your "points" about the UK doing badly overall, and having a high death rate I accepted.
Your "point" about the deaths being over 1000 for the last two days I don't accept, and the "data points" for individual days of noisy statistics that can jump from 300 one day to 1000+ the next doesn't prove anything. You only mentioned the numbers being reported as over 1000 in order to "score points".

The "point" of this thread though is about Astra Zeneca, and the general rubbishness of the UK government in dealing with Covid doesn't really matter. The UK government have done well in dealing with the vaccine roll out though.

Also the UK is not following a single dose regime, it's just extending the gap between the doses...and the whole herd immunity thing lasted about a day and was mostly words being taken out of context.

robinph · 11-02-2021 02:27PM

Regarding vaccines, although it covers any of them that have been stuck in peoples arms in the UK, the UK covid Dashboard is now showing cases per region separated out by age group:

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/cases?areaType=nation&areaName=England

It's a bit tricky to see clearly on the colour heat chart, I'm sure someone has created a fancy line chart somewhere from the data but I've not spotted it yet. It does seem to show that the number of cases being recorded in the older age groups (65+ and slightly more obviously 75+) are reducing quicker than they are in the lower age groups and as the older age groups are more likely to have received the vaccine already either due to age or being extremely vulnerable this is a good sign of the vaccines reducing transmission.

From looking at the November section on the chart it doesn't show any difference between the drop off in cases between the age groups and they were all falling at the same speed.

latency89 · 11-02-2021 05:44PM

astrofool wrote: »

Not true, you are also spreading lies. Again, use data and science to back these assertions before blindly pushing them.

It was not fit for purpose in South Africa so they stopped using it, if it worked there they wouldn't be injecting citizens with a non approved J&J vaccine next week.

Take the bad news, with the good.

deeperlearning · 11-02-2021 06:09PM

Aegir wrote: »

Herd immunity was never a government option and is little more than the imagination of the Guardian and their readers.

Quite why you choose to raise it on a thread about the Astra Zeneca vaccine and the EU's poor roll out though is baffling

Yeah, right.

Daily MailOnline - 13 Mar 2020
The UK's chief scientific adviser has revealed that around 40million people could be left to catch the coronavirus as part of a controversial Government plan for the country to develop herd immunity.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8108271/Chief-scientific-adviser-wants-60-percent-entire-population-catch-coronavirus.html

Financial Times, 13 Mar 2020
Patrick Vallance, UK’s chief scientific adviser defends herd immunity strategy for coronavirus
https://www.ft.com/content/38a81588-6508-11ea-b3f3-fe4680ea68b5

The Times, 16 Mar 2020
Coronavirus: No 10 facing questions about herd immunity’s human cost
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/coronavirus-pandemic-experts-to-explain-why-britain-is-standing-alone-on-herd-immunity-0p5jndr2n

drunkmonkey · 11-02-2021 07:02PM

Astarazeneca have an asthma inhaler that could prevent 90% of hospitalisations.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-asthma-treatment/common-asthma-drug-cuts-covid-19-hospitalization-risk-recovery-time-oxford-study-idUSKBN2A92DA

astrofool · 11-02-2021 07:05PM

latency89 wrote: »

It was not fit for purpose in South Africa so they stopped using it, if it worked there they wouldn't be injecting citizens with a non approved J&J vaccine next week.

Take the bad news, with the good.

That is not true, there was one AZ ad-hoc test with dosage regimen not being followed and even within that trial, no severe symptoms were observed.

All other vaccines work perfectly well against the strain (including recent trials), making your statement a lie.

latency89 wrote:

True

If its used by the masses, it will just force the e484k substitution variants in Brazil, South Africa and god knows where else to become dominant strains worldwide

It can be used if you lockdown your border and don't let in those strains, but what's the point of that?

But again, I said point to the science and data, and you weren't able to, making you not only a liar, but a dangerous liar who repeats lies.

latency89 · 11-02-2021 08:02PM

astrofool wrote: »

That is not true, there was one AZ ad-hoc test with dosage regimen not being followed and even within that trial, no severe symptoms were observed.

All other vaccines work perfectly well against the strain (including recent trials), making your statement a lie.

But again, I said point to the science and data, and you weren't able to, making you not only a liar, but a dangerous liar who repeats lies.

What lies?

Please answer true or false please

Sick of waffle here

South Africa dropped AZ because it was not good enough for them according to South African government

True or False?

All trials that had the SA variant had lower levels of efficacy vs original strain?

True or false?

No waffle now, true or false

astrofool · 11-02-2021 08:16PM

latency89 wrote: »

What lies?

Please answer true or false please

Sick of waffle here

South Africa dropped AZ because it was not good enough for them according to South African government

True or False?
False, there is no data driving this decision thus far apart from a badly administered trial that has produced no usable data.

All trials that had the SA variant had lower levels of efficacy vs original strain?

True or false?
True, however there were no cases of severe illness which is what actually determines if the vaccines are effective.

No waffle now, true or false

You said this:
"If its used by the masses, it will just force the e484k substitution variants in Brazil, South Africa and god knows where else to become dominant strains worldwide"

This is patently false and there is no data to support this assertion, and most data so far points to strains other than the SA variant becoming more dominant.

Again, get some data, stop making blind statements designed to sow fear, uncertainty and doubt.

latency89 · 11-02-2021 08:35PM

astrofool wrote: »

You said this:
"If its used by the masses, it will just force the e484k substitution variants in Brazil, South Africa and god knows where else to become dominant strains worldwide"

This is patently false and there is no data to support this assertion, and most data so far points to strains other than the SA variant becoming more dominant.

Again, get some data, stop making blind statements designed to sow fear, uncertainty and doubt.

Answer the questions

astrofool · 11-02-2021 09:00PM

latency89 wrote: »

Answer the questions

Again missing attention to detail and facts, answers are above, I made them short, but each one can be elaborated on as necessary, or quickly searched for so you can research yourself (mind to stay away from echo chambers). Please come back with facts and figures and science before the next lie.

latency89 · 11-02-2021 09:14PM

astrofool wrote: »

Again missing attention to detail and facts, answers are above, I made them short, but each one can be elaborated on as necessary, or quickly searched for so you can research yourself (mind to stay away from echo chambers). Please come back with facts and figures and science before the next lie.

You know you will answer false

Go annoy someone else who cant see through you

11-02-2021 09:15PM

latency89 wrote: »

What lies?

Please answer true or false please

Sick of waffle here

South Africa dropped AZ because it was not good enough for them according to South African government

True or False?

All trials that had the SA variant had lower levels of efficacy vs original strain?

True or false?

No waffle now, true or false

I think I know you from Facebook.

Are you Carol? It’s just that she knows more than the European Medicines Agency and the world health organisation as well.

astrofool · 11-02-2021 09:37PM

latency89 wrote: »

You know you will answer false

Go annoy someone else who cant see through you

Seriously, I answered you many posts ago, even bolded the answers and put it in plain English.

Again, please come back with sources, facts and figures for your claims and stop spreading FUD.

latency89 · 12-02-2021 05:16PM

Doctors in Rome refusing to take Astrazeneca vaccine, preferring Pfizer

https://www.wantedinrome.com/news/covid-19-rome-doctors-refuse-astrazeneca-vaccine.html

However the massive, well-organised vaccination centre soon found itself at the centre of controversy, with multiple complaints from the doctors being vaccinated, some of whom walked away without receiving any vaccine.

Another doctor, a gynecologist, told La Repubblica: "Today's vaccine is better than nothing, but it is not right, we were told it was Pfizer."

Better than nothing is how I would put it too

Can't say I blame them, If I am a doctor I want the mRNA vaccines both for the higher protection and the efficacy against the SA variant, especially if that is what i've been promised.

deeperlearning · 12-02-2021 07:31PM

AFAIK all doctors here have received Pfizer and Moderna.

Hospital staff received the Pfizer vaccine but the Moderna was used for the GP vaccination service.

McGiver · 12-02-2021 07:58PM

AZ is a borderline bogus vaccine.

Thankfully we, the EU, didn't place all our bets on it. Its only 18% of portfolio. Pfizer ramping up, moderna steady, JJ coming soon, Novavax thereafter.

The AZ company is dodgy as well. Signed contract knowing they couldn't deliver what was agreed.
Issues with clinical trial data.
Late application to the EMA.
Two weeks before the delivery AZ said they would deliver only 30%. And lied about the reasons.
The Belgian plant which AZ blamed it on said they had no production issues.
SA gov are selling all AZ vaccines.
US investors are suing AZ for botched trial data.

Everything very dodgy.

The Brexiter, Tory, Irexit and fascist trolls & bots can wrap their AZ vaccines into their Great British Union Jack trunks and mind their own business.

NOTE - I'm not Irish so the resident Tories and fifth column English here can't blame me I'm IRA.

Back to you.

12-02-2021 10:06PM

McGiver wrote: »

AZ is a borderline bogus vaccine.

Thankfully we, the EU, didn't place all our bets on it. Its only 18% of portfolio. Pfizer ramping up, moderna steady, JJ coming soon, Novavax thereafter.

The AZ company is dodgy as well. Signed contract knowing they couldn't deliver what was agreed.
Issues with clinical trial data.
Late application to the EMA.
Two weeks before the delivery AZ said they would deliver only 30%. And lied about the reasons.
The Belgian plant which AZ blamed it on said they had no production issues.
SA gov are selling all AZ vaccines.
US investors are suing AZ for botched trial data.

Everything very dodgy.

The Brexiter, Tory, Irexit and fascist trolls & bots can wrap their AZ vaccines into their Great British Union Jack trunks and mind their own business.

NOTE - I'm not Irish so the resident Tories and fifth column English here can't blame me I'm IRA.

Back to you.

Why on earth did we put so much emphasis on what the EMA and WHO decided when all we needed was McGiver off the internet.

Danzy · 12-02-2021 10:10PM

McGiver wrote: »

AZ is a borderline bogus vaccine.

Thankfully we, the EU, didn't place all our bets on it. Its only 18% of portfolio. Pfizer ramping up, moderna steady, JJ coming soon, Novavax thereafter.

The AZ company is dodgy as well. Signed contract knowing they couldn't deliver what was agreed.
Issues with clinical trial data.
Late application to the EMA.
Two weeks before the delivery AZ said they would deliver only 30%. And lied about the reasons.
The Belgian plant which AZ blamed it on said they had no production issues.
SA gov are selling all AZ vaccines.
US investors are suing AZ for botched trial data.

Everything very dodgy.

The Brexiter, Tory, Irexit and fascist trolls & bots can wrap their AZ vaccines into their Great British Union Jack trunks and mind their own business.

NOTE - I'm not Irish so the resident Tories and fifth column English here can't blame me I'm IRA.

Back to you.

That's a fantastically insane post.

brickster69 · 12-02-2021 11:02PM

Danzy wrote: »

That's a fantastically insane post.

Probably sat by his keyboard with a balaclava, a pair of sunglasses and beret on.

astrofool · 12-02-2021 11:49PM

It's looking like AZ in the field is doing a better job than it's phase 3 trials suggest, I'd still be waiting for more data before they recommend it for > 70's (and I'd still prioritize that group for mRNA), but things are looking up (even with the variants).

What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

Comments