The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

dobman88 wrote: »

What's that got to do with anything. I was just answering the question asked.

I'm just adding more facts.

Between 2006 and 2016, Dublin senior footballers played 54 championship games in a row in Croke Park.

Enquiring wrote: »

Dublin senior footballers home stadium cost 260 million. They've played 89 out 96 championship matches in Croke Park since 2004. A further 71 million will be spent on upgrades to Croke Park the GAA have announced.

I’m pretty sure that Parnell park didn’t cost 260 million....


To be fair about 23 of those matches at Croke park are provincial or All Ireland finals. These are as a matter of course always held at the largest GAA stadium going given the demand and the prestige associated with playing at Croke park. If you’re telling dublin they can’t play those matches there then no other county could expect to either (in any of the codes), regardless of who they were playing - Kerry, Tyrone and cork for example all seemed to enjoy playing there over the years, and seemed to do alright for themselves. That’s before we get into whether semi finals should be there too. Super 8 games would further impact the number.

tritium wrote: »

I’m pretty sure that Parnell park didn’t cost 260 million....


To be fair about 23 of those matches at Croke park are provincial or All Ireland finals. These are as a matter of course always held at the largest GAA stadium going given the demand and the prestige associated with playing at Croke park. If you’re telling dublin they can’t play those matches there then no other county could expect to either (in any of the codes), regardless of who they were playing - Kerry, Tyrone and cork for example all seemed to enjoy playing there over the years, and seemed to do alright for themselves. That’s before we get into whether semi finals should be there too. Super 8 games would further impact the number.

How many championship matches have Dublin footballers played in Parnell park in the last 50 years?

As stated, Dublin footballers didn't play a single championship game outside Croke Park for 10 years. When nominating a home ground for the super 8's, Dublin chose Croke Park.

Amazingly, out of 96 matches, Dublin senior footballers have played 89 at home since 2004. It really is incredible. Moving Dublin hurlers to Croke Park was attempted but Dublin GAA fans attended in such low numbers that they had to abandon that plan.

I'm going to come out in Favour of a 4 way slit, But with the following caveats.

* No county team can be expected to have no county stadium, so 4 new stadia will need to be built. Until this is in place, a split cannot be considered.

* Until all 4 new county boards envisage that it is no longer a requirement, inter Dublin county transfers of players are permitted at any point. Any player eligible to play for Dublin is automatically eligible to play for any Dublin based county team, at any point in the season. After this transition period (probably circa 20 years), If a player moves from Fingal to Rathdown, then they may declare for either in that playing year. This applies to all grades and codes.

* Croke park is sold, and a new national stadium is built at a new location in the midlands. This moves the home advantage of the 4 Dublin teams, and transfers that advantage elsewhere (Probably to the combined Longford/Roscommon/Leitrim team). The sale will also be partly able to fund the building of the 4 new required stadia. Obviously, it will come nowhere near covering the cost, maybe 33-50%.

* All other county teams will be required to amalgamate, to ensure fairness of competition. This also has the advantage of streamlining costs - including permitting redundant county grounds to be sold off to finance the new stadia required in Dublin.


Seems to tick all the boxes about fairness and removal of advantages of some teams over others, while at the same time permitting a fair and equitable transfer to a new operating system for County Competition.

Enquiring wrote: »

How many championship matches have Dublin footballers played in Parnell park in the last 50 years?

As stated, Dublin footballers didn't play a single championship game outside Croke Park for 10 years. When nominating a home ground for the super 8's, Dublin chose Croke Park.

Amazingly, out of 96 matches, Dublin senior footballers have played 89 at home since 2004. It really is incredible. Moving Dublin hurlers to Croke Park was attempted but Dublin GAA fans attended in such low numbers that they had to abandon that plan.

Clearly we need to throw some more funding at the hurlers. I do admire the footballers selflessness though, playing 2 neutral venue games.......


But to my point that you’ve completely failed to address- do you agree that finals should be played at Croker? What’s yours view on semi finals? Do you agree that if dublin cant play finals there no one else can expect to either? Do you think Kerry in the 00s had an unfair advantage at the latter stage of the AI due to being more familiar with Croke park than many of their opponents? Did Kilkenny have a similar advantage in the hurling? Cork in ladies football and camogie? Why did home advantage not lead to dublin winning more AIs in the years from 1984 to 2010 (1)?

tritium wrote: »

Clearly we need to throw some more funding at the hurlers. I do admire the footballers selflessness though, playing 2 neutral venue games.......


But to my point that you’ve completely failed to address- do you agree that finals should be played at Croker? What’s yours view on semi finals? Do you agree that if dublin cant play finals there no one else can expect to either? Do you think Kerry in the 00s had an unfair advantage at the latter stage of the AI due to being more familiar with Croke park than many of their opponents? Did Kilkenny have a similar advantage in the hurling? Cork in ladies football and camogie? Why did home advantage not lead to dublin winning more AIs in the years from 1984 to 2010 (1)?

Enough money has been given to promote hurling as you know. More won't influence Dublin fans to attend games unfortunately.

I was just pointing out the facts. Croke Park is the Dublin senior footballers home stadium. They've played every single home championship game there bar 1 for decades. At least 50 years.

It went from all home games played in Croke Park to all championship games played in Croke Park. Not one played outside their home stadium for 10 years. Amazingly, this decision to give the Dublin footballers home advantage for every single championship game came around the same time that increased funding was pumped into Dublin GAA.

olestoepoke wrote: »

If you think that splitting the Dubs will increase interest you are deluded.

It will. Attendances in the Leinster championship have been decimated. Games that were sell outs have been halved. Dublin fans only bring 10,000 supporters to championship games outside of Croke Park. Other counties have faling attendances too and it's spreading to the All Ireland series.

With new rivalries and excitement over the new counties, interest levels will increase. Local derbies in Dublin obviously but Fingal v Mearh would be a humdinger or South Dublin v Kildare.

ArielAtom wrote: »

As the majority of this thread is just a moanfest pointing out Dublin dominance, with very little focus on solving the perceived issue.

From my point, the split that some are looking for will not happen. The AI series is county based. Split Dublin and it is no longer a AI. Most posters would agree on that. I have my own ideas on what I see that can be done.

1. Dublin play their home games in Parnell Park, or a newly built stadium that is heavily funded by central funds ala PUC, this will be a capex project that going by the majority of posters should not pose a problem, Dublin will be required to fund at least 30% of the total cost .This will ensure that Croke Park is reserved for Leinster Final, AI Semi and Final. This will have a knock on affect, there will be no opposition supporters as the crowd will be made up on season ticket and Parnell Park ticket holders.

2. Finances are being addressed as we discuss this. The Dublin only project that was funded by the ISC has ceased. Financing is better distributed, Dublin lie mid table in this since approx 2017. That is not to say that further funding for other counties is not required, the GAA need to put a committee together to look at how this will be achieved.

3. To ensure this funding is maximised to it's full potential full time official needs to be appointed to each county.

4. People need to buy into this and stop living in the past, what funding was allocated to Dublin is done. It can't and won't be taken back. So if posters want to live in the past and not look to developing a plan that is acceptable to all then we are fighting a losing battle.

Could you start the ball rolling with some ideas from a Dublin perspective as to what you would see as a fair and reasonable method of the redistribution of resources to rebalance the inequities currently existing.

mitchelsontour wrote: »

Could you start the ball rolling with some ideas from a Dublin perspective as to what you would see as a fair and reasonable method of the redistribution of resources to rebalance the inequities currently existing.

Thats just what I've done. This is not a Dublin problem.

tritium wrote: »

Inter county spend restricted if counties aren’t meeting commitments to games development.

I can think of a few counties that will have to be dragged kicking and screaming in to agreeing to that.

I will deflect back to the level of finance cork GAA have had made available to them, surely if we're all for fairness that should be condemned also and called out for how unfair it is?

tritium wrote: »

From my end some thoughts

Games development- per capita basis for allocation with a transparently calculated adjustment for counties with specific issues such as poor infrastructure or lack of facilities or with exceptionally small catchment (I’d see only a handful of counties availing of the latter)

Games promotion staff - every county matches funding, either through clubs or overall level. Counties with histories of underperforming at senior level will have an allowance made here for a period.

Sponsorship- commercial manager appointed centrally for each region (region is >250k people say) to help counties maximise sponsorship. Their remit will allow them to seek combined sponsorship deals for counties in their region if appropriate. Fully open view of counties commercials.

Cap on inter county spending.

Inter county spend restricted if counties aren’t meeting commitments to games development.

Commitment to ensure that all counties have adequate and sustainable access to pitches, including buying land if required

Limited scheme for players to transfer between counties. Wouldn’t be available to division 1 counties to avail of

Tritium thanks for a reasoned and balanced response. I am tight for time at the moment at work but will reply later with some comments of my own on what you have proposed.

tritium wrote: »

You keep saying it’s impossible to rebalance the financial inequality

You keep saying you’d have a fair system that gave all counties what they needed and pooled sponsorship

Which is it? A fair system is impossible or you have a (well hidden) plan to create a fair system. Because if it’s the latter, as you’ve assured us for so many pages then, as I told you already, your argument for a split falls apart

It is impossible to have any fair competitions when one county received 2 decades of funding far above any other county. It's as simple as that. It's left things in a position beyond repair. How do you think it can be fair if one county is spending 3.8 million on games development alone? This is before we take into account all the other spending power. If we allow it to continue, it will not be just the Dublin men's and women's footballers that decimate the championships but it will increase across the board. It's the inevitable conclusion of one county competing in amateur sports on a professional basis.

ooter wrote: »

I will deflect back to the level of finance cork GAA have had made available to them, surely if we're all for fairness that should be condemned also and called out for how unfair it is?

Instead of deflecting, as you've admitted to doing so - why don't you just address the post immediately prior to yours. The post which sums everything up in plain black and white. Everything else that tries to derail these facts is just deflection.

The money given to Cork was in relation to the stadium. Dublin don't have that problem because, for one their so called home ground (Parnell Park) is used so sparingly that it doesn't need any renovations; and secondly they are actually provided a fine state of the art stadium for nothing.

Enquiring wrote: »

So you accept that Croke Park is the home ground to the Dublin senior footballers?

Still not answering any questions so? Do the footballers play for a different county than the Dublin Hurlers and ladies?

What's their home ground btw?

I do accept btw that Dublin play too many games in Croke park, I'm just enough of a realist to realise that this is something other Leinster counties have pushed based on self interest rather than a cruel Dublin plot. If the rest of Leinster wanted to change it I don't think it would be a big hurdle to achieve. When it come to semi finals and finals though I've no issue with Croke park being used for any team, given playing there would be a career highlight for many players. If a team is good enough to play there often on that basis fair play to them, no one minded Kerry or Tyrone being more familiar than their opponents with Croke park over the years