Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) Mod warning in OP 22/01

downthemiddle · 11-02-2021 08:30PM

Locotastic wrote: »

Yeah you should, because you wouldn't dare say it to someones face. Unless you really are that oblivious and can't see how insulting it is.

From the poster who was talking about Blue Peter badges earlier.

yrreg0850 · 11-02-2021 08:34PM

billy_beckham wrote: »

I don't know exactly what has happened, don't think any of yee were round the table either?

But the default is to hammer the Department and its Minister......to me it looks like, once again, a Teaching Union is trying to call the shots....It knows best!

You won't see other unions trying to call the shots.
Their members are losing money while they are out.

billy_beckham · 11-02-2021 08:38PM

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Hiya Billy, how's David? Behaving himself I hope.

Reminds me, whatever happened that Rebecca wan?

edit- doesn't really matter what happened round the table tho does it?

Fact they're still arsing round looking for a Plan in Feb is bad enuf on its own, regardless if the union was totally at fault today

Arsing round looking for a plan?

You should run for shop steward jimmy next time round, next time round, work your way up to the top of whichever of the Unions is lucky enough to have you and sort it all out, sort it all out.

Give your local chapter rep a shout now and see why they made a bags of it tonight..

Ever think the reason they don't have a plan is because it is so hard to get agreement with all the partners, including TUI/ASTI et al...

But look, no you're right, all Norma's fault, stick another pin in the voodoo doll there..

mcsean2163 · 11-02-2021 08:39PM

Seems to have got more toxic here of late.

I finished my job Sunday, working crazy hours at night and minding three kids by day. For my efforts, I've been rewarded with dismissal and my position passed to someone else that does not have young children. It was bittersweet but on many levels I was glad as I was running myself into the ground. If I ever get to pension age, I'll just have to learn to live on air!

Anyway, as luck would have it, less than three days after finishing, I put my back out. I really struggled to get through today.

We don't live in the countryside, we're inner city Dublin and not the posh side, we're the side where a used syringe was left beside the children's playground this week.

Anyway, as someone who did not have the prescience to plan for a Pandemic, does anyone know when the schools open?

No blame, just hoping to have a date so I can scrape over the line.

billy_beckham · 11-02-2021 08:40PM

Locotastic wrote: »

It's awful and hard to see the end game right now. I try to fast forward myself mentally to a time when this is a distant memory but it's just dragging on and on like some sick groundhog day.

'Get on with it' will safely make it into the dictionary of irritating covid terms. Along with, new normal, unprecedented, stay home, stay safe, wash your hands, cocooning, we're all in this together, the next 6 weeks are crucial, flatten the curve, variants and social distancing (remember a time when we had never heard of that).

could we add "wet pubs" to that list?

gifted · 11-02-2021 08:42PM

mcsean2163 wrote: »

There we have it folks. Parents of special needs children are not .... drumroll... parents.

Fwiw I don't share that horrible sentiment.

Wow...just wow.

Locotastic · 11-02-2021 08:45PM

billy_beckham wrote: »

could we add "wet pubs" to that list?

Yes definitely, sounds so squelchy and moist. The aul wet pubs will be jammed after this!

beggars_bush · 11-02-2021 08:48PM

yrreg0850 wrote: »

You won't see other unions trying to call the shots.
Their members are losing money while they are out.

Unions are there to represent and protect their members

penny piper · 11-02-2021 08:50PM

Locotastic wrote: »

Yeah you should, because you wouldn't dare say it to someones face. Unless you really are that oblivious and can't see how insulting it is.

It's not insulting at all.....it's based on comments on this board....
and *daring to say it to someone's face* seems an extremely immature comment...

This is my final comment on this subject.

Locotastic · 11-02-2021 08:52PM

mcsean2163 wrote: »

Anyway, as someone who did not have the prescience to plan for a Pandemic, does anyone know when the schools open?

No blame, just hoping to have a date so I can scrape over the line.

Sorry to hear things aren't going well for you. Sometimes these thing happen for a reason and better things come along. I like to believe that anyway, when one door closes and all that.

But it is really tough to see past what is happening right now, I worry a lot especially when there's no information forthcoming.

Re schools - nothing new bar unions not agreeing to leaving cert arrangements and primary and secondary schools are supposed to open on a phased basis over a three-week period in March.

Very little updates on schools recently.

Locotastic · 11-02-2021 08:54PM

penny piper wrote: »

It's not insulting at all.....it's based on comments on this board....
and *daring to say it to someone's face* seems an extremely immature comment...

This is my final comment on this subject.

Well I'm glad you didn't say I come across as curmudgeonly, now that would be an insult.

JP100 · 11-02-2021 08:55PM

mcsean2163 wrote: »

Seems to have got more toxic here of late.

I finished my job Sunday, working crazy hours at night and minding three kids by day. For my efforts, I've been rewarded with dismissal and my position passed to someone else that does not have young children. It was bittersweet but on many levels I was glad as I was running myself into the ground. If I ever get to pension age, I'll just have to learn to live on air!

Anyway, as luck would have it, less than three days after finishing, I put my back out. I really struggled to get through today.

We don't live in the countryside, we're inner city Dublin and not the posh side, we're the side where a used syringe was left beside the children's playground this week.

Anyway, as someone who did not have the prescience to plan for a Pandemic, does anyone know when the schools open?

No blame, just hoping to have a date so I can scrape over the line.

So you expect by posting on here for posters to be able to tell you when exactly school buildings will be be open again! What an awful waste of time and energy on your part.

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 11-02-2021 08:57PM

billy_beckham wrote: »

Arsing round looking for a plan?

You should run for shop steward jimmy next time round, next time round, work your way up to the top of whichever of the Unions is lucky enough to have you and sort it all out, sort it all out.

Give your local chapter rep a shout now and see why they made a bags of it tonight..

Ever think the reason they don't have a plan is because it is so hard to get agreement with all the partners, including TUI/ASTI et al...

But look, no you're right, all Norma's fault, stick another pin in the voodoo doll there..

I'll paint you a picture there Billy and we'll see what you think.

It's September 2020 and schools have returned. Norma approaches the podium and announces the following, agreed with unions during talks over the summer months-

Norma says we are in uncertain times and while we currently believe schools to be safe environments, this may not always be the case.

If the event of further closures the following will be the arrangements.

Norma then proceeds to lay out a plan based on the length and timing of possible closures.

She outlines alternate methods of assessment.

She gives alternate dates of oral and practical exams and the point at which they may be completed online or, if the closures are prolonged, cancelled.

She says the CAO, if needed, will try to accommodate as many students as is possible to directly access their course of choice and which courses would require some entry tests due to a cap in numbers.

In this scenario, I'm not left trying to put the minds of LCs at ease as they wonder what material to study, will mocks go ahead, will orals or practicals be completed or will they even sit an exam.

Maybe from now on when fielding a question from an anxious student, I'll ask myself, who would Billy blame.

With respect, you haven't a notion.

Locotastic · 11-02-2021 08:58PM

JP100 wrote: »

So you expect by posting on here for posters to be able to tell you when exactly school buildings will be be open again! What an awful waste of time and energy on your part.

Well that's not a helpful or compassionate reply, really. That poster is entitled to post here as much as anyone else.

wirelessdude01 · 11-02-2021 09:02PM

Have to say that to me the TUI pulled an utter stunt yesterday with that statement they put out. They obviously were aware of what was going on and the lack of progression/engagement from the DES with regards to the LC. Had to have known what the ASTI were thinking and probably the course of action that was going to occur today.

wirelessdude01 · 11-02-2021 09:08PM

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

I'll paint you a picture there Billy and we'll see what you think.

It's September 2020 and schools have returned. Norma approaches the podium and announces the following, agreed with unions during talks over the summer months-

Norma says we are in uncertain times and while we currently believe schools to be safe environments, this may not always be the case.

If the event of further closures the following will be the arrangements.

Norma then proceeds to lay out a plan based on the length and timing of possible closures.

She outlines alternate methods of assessment.

She gives alternate dates of oral and practical exams and the point at which they may be completed online or, if the closures are prolonged, cancelled.

She says the CAO, if needed, will try to accommodate as many students as is possible to directly access their course of choice and which courses would require some entry tests due to a cap in numbers.

In this scenario I'm not trying to put the minds of LCs at ease as they wonder what material to study, will mocks go ahead, will orals or practicals be completed or will they even sit an exam.

Maybe from now on when fieldigg a question from an anxious student, I'll ask myself, who would Billy blame.

With respect, you haven't a notion.

The above is prettymuch what we all thought would be part of this grand school reopening plan/document before it appeared in late July. Only plan was wash your hands, spray some stuff on your hands and pray that the masses didn't notice that pods and bubbles were fancy speak for table groups and classes.

Ohh also forgot that sticking their heads in the sand was the main component of said plan.

JP100 · 11-02-2021 09:08PM

Locotastic wrote: »

Well that's not a helpful or compassionate reply, really. That poster is entitled to post here as much as anyone else.

Nobody said anyone was not entitled to opinions on here, so get up the yard with your pontificating nonsense. Absolutely nobody on here has the answer as to when exactly school buildings will fully open again and expecting them to do so through posting on here is indeed a waste of one's time and energy. Time and energy that could be much better spent by actually lobbying and asking the people you know directly involved in making the call on it. That is the reality of the situation and inspite of whether you choose to recognise that or not.

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 11-02-2021 09:10PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

The above is prettymuch what we all thought would be part of this grand school reopening plan/document before it appeared in late July. Only plan was wash your hands, spray some stuff on your hands and pray that the masses didn't notice that pods and bubbles were fancy speak for table groups and classes.

Ohh also forgot that sticking their heads in the sand was the main component of said plan.

Yep.

Norma rocking back and forth in the corner repeating

"the schools are safe"
"the schools are safe"
"the schools are safe"

does not constitute a plan

khalessi · 11-02-2021 09:18PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

The above is prettymuch what we all thought would be part of this grand school reopening plan/document before it appeared in late July. Only plan was wash your hands, spray some stuff on your hands and pray that the masses didn't notice that pods and bubbles were fancy speak for table groups and classes.

Ohh also forgot that sticking their heads in the sand was the main component of said plan.

And this plan despite talk of enhanced measures and taking into account of the new variants does not appear to have changed for reopening today.

Be interesting to see what is in place when mainstream reopens

mcsean2163 · 11-02-2021 09:21PM

Locotastic wrote: »

Sorry to hear things aren't going well for you. Sometimes these thing happen for a reason and better things come along. I like to believe that anyway, when one door closes and all that.

But it is really tough to see past what is happening right now, I worry a lot especially when there's no information forthcoming.

Re schools - nothing new bar unions not agreeing to leaving cert arrangements and primary and secondary schools are supposed to open on a phased basis over a three-week period in March.

Very little updates on schools recently.

Many thanks for your kind words. I guess I'll drop back in a week and see if there's any white smoke.

am_zarathustra · 11-02-2021 09:24PM

The only people surprised the department didn't have a plan are people who've never had to deal with the department. Schools fix problems, the department generally do very little useful other than payroll, and they frequently make an absolute balls of that. This has just shone a light on their incompetence because schools can't fix this, they can't change timetables or move people around or do they paperwork at night. They are being asked to do their job and come up with contingencies and plans for things that happen every year, albeit in strange environment. Do we blame nurses or nurses unions when their are people sleeping on chairs in ERs.....no we blame the HSE.

If they aren't serious about exams then the ASTI are right, that should just be said now. If they aren't discussing it seriously, given the timeframe, then they have no intention of running them and the union representing the people who will have to carry out the half baked ideas leading to nothing are absolutely right to point that out.

I really hope it doesn't effect the kids going back in to school after midterm, I'd love to be back teaching my 6th years even in a normalish classroom!

Locotastic · 11-02-2021 09:25PM

mcsean2163 wrote: »

Many thanks for your kind words. I guess I'll drop back in a week and see if there's any white smoke.

I know it's unsettling that there's been not much in the way of updates. It's a real struggle going through this, especially when you have extra worries.

One day (soon I hope) we'll be saying remember the lockdown, they were mad times!

quarryman · 11-02-2021 09:40PM

gifted wrote: »

But you didn't ask that...you asked ...

"Have you any idea how difficult parents have it right now trying to educate their children while also working 9-5 jobs to pay the bills?"

Make up your mind ted.....ask one question but don't be playing the keyboard warrior by then asking a different question because you didn't like the answer.

Wow. So 2 questions:

How are parents managing?
How are parents of special needs kids managing?

Are 2 completely different questions?

You heard it here folks, parents of special needs children are completely different from actual parents.

billy_beckham · 11-02-2021 09:46PM

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

I'll paint you a picture there Billy and we'll see what you think.

It's September 2020 and schools have returned. Norma approaches the podium and announces the following, agreed with unions during talks over the summer months-

Norma says we are in uncertain times and while we currently believe schools to be safe environments, this may not always be the case.

If the event of further closures the following will be the arrangements.

Norma then proceeds to lay out a plan based on the length and timing of possible closures.

She outlines alternate methods of assessment.

She gives alternate dates of oral and practical exams and the point at which they may be completed online or, if the closures are prolonged, cancelled.

She says the CAO, if needed, will try to accommodate as many students as is possible to directly access their course of choice and which courses would require some entry tests due to a cap in numbers.

In this scenario, I'm not left trying to put the minds of LCs at ease as they wonder what material to study, will mocks go ahead, will orals or practicals be completed or will they even sit an exam.

Maybe from now on when fielding a question from an anxious student, I'll ask myself, who would Billy blame.

With respect, you haven't a notion.

You're no Michelangelo..

Tell you what I think... You're terribly anti DES, and seem to have a particular issue with its Minister.

Not sure what parallel Utopian dream you had with all those Sep 20 announcements... But in case you haven't been paying attention... Getting teacher's unions to agree to anything is challenging, getting them to agree to go back in September was a minor miracle...

Who's to say IF there had been a plan that it would have been honoured?

We're in a pandemic after all Jimmy...

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 11-02-2021 09:54PM

billy_beckham wrote: »

You're no Michelangelo..

Tell you what I think... You're terribly anti DES, and seem to have a particular issue with its Minister.

Not sure what parallel Utopian dream you had with all those Sep 20 announcements... But in case you haven't been paying attention... Getting teacher's unions to agree to anything is challenging, getting them to agree to go back in September was a minor miracle...

Who's to say IF there had been a plan that it would have been honoured?

We're in a pandemic after all Jimmy...

To sum up.

Don't plan for anything cos of those pesky teachers.

That's so weak, well done.

khalessi · 11-02-2021 10:04PM

billy_beckham wrote: »

You're no Michelangelo..

Tell you what I think... You're terribly anti DES, and seem to have a particular issue with its Minister.

Not sure what parallel Utopian dream you had with all those Sep 20 announcements... But in case you haven't been paying attention... Getting teacher's unions to agree to anything is challenging, getting them to agree to go back in September was a minor miracle...

Who's to say IF there had been a plan that it would have been honoured?

We're in a pandemic after all Jimmy...

In case you hadn't noticed the unions have not been the problem, even the Taoiseach came out and said the unions were right were right meanwhile the Minister has a history of solo runs and going against NPHET advice not consulting with NPHET, Tanaiste or Taoiseach.

The history of the Dept of Education has been very poor over the last year and to see that they are yet again not providing adequate solutions to the LC question is laughable. They have learnt nothing from last years despicable LC

hotmail.com · 11-02-2021 10:06PM

Why are the unions even involved in these discussions.

The exams have nothing to do with the unions. Teachers just paid to teach.

Green Peter · 11-02-2021 10:08PM

ASTI are a disgrace, they have some leadership always negative. It's all winding up to more money down the road and an early vaccine. Pure blackmail. Students way down the list.

History Queen · 11-02-2021 10:10PM

billy_beckham wrote: »

You're no Michelangelo..

Tell you what I think... You're terribly anti DES, and seem to have a particular issue with its Minister.

Not sure what parallel Utopian dream you had with all those Sep 20 announcements... But in case you haven't been paying attention... Getting teacher's unions to agree to anything is challenging, getting them to agree to go back in September was a minor miracle...

Who's to say IF there had been a plan that it would have been honoured?

We're in a pandemic after all Jimmy...

They agreed to working during the summer last year to make the LC happen. Then it was cancelled.

You only hear about the difficult talks not the ones that pass without incident.

Did you even consider that people whose entire careers are spent dealing with the DES and their decisions, would have a better idea of the issues with same than you do?

History Queen · 11-02-2021 10:11PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

Why are the unions even involved in these discussions.

The exams have nothing to do with the unions. Teachers just paid to teach.

The fact that you need to ask this question is shocking. Unless you are being sarcastic?

Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

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Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) Mod warning in OP 22/01