Squatters

Haulage21 wrote: »

I’ve recently inherited a farm from a distant relation and unfortunately I’m not from the area the land is in and wouldn’t be too familiar with the layout.
Upon checking boundaries etc it has come to light that a local farmer has taken over one plot of land and has created his own entrance. I have tried to speak to him but he is telling me he is using it for 16 years and is refusing to leave.
My solicitor is telling me I can only get him out by applying for an injunction or court order, which apparently is in the region of €5k upwards. Surely there has to be another way. Just wondering if anyone has experience of this. Many thanks

Has he shown you any proof of his usage for 16yrs ?

My understanding of the situation is that you pay him off or take him to court - in which case you may still loose and end out paying thousands in legal fees...€5k quoted by your solicitor I would guess is on the assumption he has no proof, it could easily cost upwards of €50k for a land dispute legal fees.

If he has no proof of using the land for multiple years, it could still cost you thousands in legal fees....and loads of time in terms of letters being sent between legals to find a solution (each letter sent by solicitor either on your behalf or in response to other parties solicitor will probably cost you €100-150 every time)

Or alternatively you accept that he has stolen a piece of land and move on with your life.

If the new entrance is from a public road, planning permission would be required.

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

You could check the other guys claims by ordering satellite images of the area - which will cost you a couple of hundred per image.

There is a variety of satellite image sets available for free that might at least give indications.

These would of course have to be backed up if things went further.

If it's near the roadside is there a possibility that older versions of Google Streetview will have the old setup captured?

Apparently it is extremely difficult to get adverse possession of land if the title holder is disputing it. The law for adverse possession in Ireland really appears to be in cases where the title holder has abandoned the land and can't be traced.

Did the relative you inherit the farm from use it in the last 12 years? Were they paying any type of insurance for the farm or property tax in that last 12 years. Was the farm willed to you and do you know if the will was made in last 12 years. Minimal usage or any acts of ownership by the title holder like paying insurance or willing the land is probably enough to defeat a claim of adverse

One final thought, if your relative was actively farming and lifting subs or payments ( Glas, Reps, Single Farm Payment etc) he likely would have had a Dept. Inspection, unannounced or otherwise, over the last 12 years.
This would be recorded.
It is usual for the land owner to walk the land with the Inspector.

That's a pity, as his entitlements attaching the land will have been returned to the National Reserve.
Don't know how big the total area is, or the disputed area, but the entitlements are worth approx €200 per ha, per year.
Of course, if your "good neighbour" somehow accessed them and added them to his own, you could feck him up nicely by informing te Dept and questioning his legal right to claim them...... thereby blocking all his payments untill he proves his right to that piece of land....
Or if he applied for entitlements from the National Reserve on your bit of land... or his child applied for them under the Young Farmers scheme..
Still worth querying with Lands in Cavan,( the successor to Land Registry) and getting some definite information on the situation.
Biggest problem for you is that this now screws up the sale of the land, if that was on your list of options...

I would say do your research and see if you can fight this without spending too much first. I must be inclined to go as far as possible within the law to make sure this brass necked arsehole didn't get his way.

Haulage21 wrote: »

I will probably sell the remaining areas, I’m not from a farming background and live too far away to be renting it out to someone else.
I have been told that I cannot sell it knowing that someone else is claiming squatters on it, surely this doesn’t seem right??
Seems my only options are spend €5k-€10k to get an injunctions to remove him, or wait until squatters goes through and see if he wins it or finally let him have it and sell the remaining parts. The latter seems least hassle and least expensive of all.
Thanks again for the help

https://www.lynchsolicitors.ie/squatters-adverse-possession/#:~:text=It%20has%20been%20the%20law,as%20simple%20as%20taking%20possession.

Good info here haulage. Seems like the 12 years is crucial and the squatter had to make it obvious to the landowner that he was claiming the land from the beginning. If your relation was in a nursing home surely he would not have known. Maybe something to discuss with a solicitor about. Onus is on the squatter to prove all this. If possible you should go and video yourself doing some work in the field.

If the price you would get for the squatted on land covered the costs would be worth it to stop the theif stealing the land.

The costs go both ways. If OP initiates legal proceedings and doesn't tip his hand, the farmer may be advised by his own solicitor that the land isnt worth the legal fees to defend his claim.

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

The costs go both ways. If OP initiates legal proceedings and doesn't tip his hand, the farmer may be advised by his own solicitor that the land isnt worth the legal fees to defend his claim.

Some people are thick and just won't give in, no matter what they are told.

Haulage21 wrote: »

He seems to know the system!!
I just find the law so hard to understand. It doesn’t seem right or fair that an injunction is the only means to get him out and that he can sue me if I touch his property, where’s the logic in that.

It is not his property as the onus is still on him to prove it. A judge will not look kindly on him moving in on someone who was in poor health's land.

I'd pay someone to refence it and to put a few cattle in. It is your land after all.

Haulage21 wrote: »

He seems to know the system!!
I just find the law so hard to understand. It doesn’t seem right or fair that an injunction is the only means to get him out and that he can sue me if I touch his property, where’s the logic in that.

a court of law doesn’t care about right or wrong, it is only concerned about the facts, what you know and what you can prove are often different.

If the matter is brought before a court it’s your legals job to paint a picture of this guy taking advantage of a neighbour, by moving into his land as soon as he was placed in a home, a callous act on a person of diminished mental capacity and it’s his sides job to show some sort of agreement between the late owner and the man on the land, this will be a hard task to prove, if it doesn’t exist, if somehow there is any documentation showing this, it is open to dispute.

He may not be able to claim any ownership of the land, you have title to it and unless he can or is willing to make a claim in a court.

Haulage21 wrote: »

Before a judge would grant an injunction I presume my solicitor and his solicitor have to put both sides arguments before the judge or how does it work, would that mean he would have to pay for the injunction also? Or can I get an injunction in my own right?

Either party can seek an injunction.

Costs will generally be decided after the full hearing of the case, not at injunctions stage (your solicitor will still seek payment, subject to whatever you have agreed with them). If no injunction is granted, the plaintiff will have to bear their own costs. The defendant may seek an order for costs, but these aren't always granted.

One side could seek and ex parte injunction, that is only they are in court, the other side isn't. However, the courts will generally only grant these for a few days and the court will ask for both parties to be present at the next hearing.

Courts prefer injunctions that say "You must not do this" as opposed to ones that say "You must do this".

I am having the same type of problem at the moment and it is all so complicated. I don't understand how someone can just take your land the land that you paid for and own according to the deeds wether or not you are using it.
we had a neighbour who was a member of the travelling community he built an extension on the back of his house and encroached on our land by quiet a bit, we were threatened for years not to say anything by himself and his sons we had 2 elderly parents living with us so we said we would not cause any problems until after they were gone rather than get them embroiled in any nasty scenes, but to cut a long story short they were not paying the mortgage so the bank were after them and they just disappeared so we were left not knowing who to contact or who owned the house. When the bank put up an eviction order I contacted them and their solicitor to no avail the solicitor just said they would inform their client (the bank) They eventually put the house up for auction so I got my solicitor to contact the auctioneer and they agreed to put in the contract of sale that there was an on going boundary issue. On the morning of the auction the new owner contacted our solicitor the situation was explained to him, he agreed he would engage with use and sort it out. Roll on a year and even though he has admitted to the boundary encroachment he is claiming adverse possession
I have been paying insurance and property tax on my property for what is on the deeds I wouldn't assume any was paid by my neighbour, I don't know what to do next can he claim possession even though he only owns it a year and the previous owner was not there for 12 years either the house lay vacant for 9 years