Who Watches the Watchmen (Our Chit Chat Thread)

Time wrote: »

You're our resident manufacturer, is it a feasible thing to do? Or would it be impractical technically/financially

Oh very feasible but it certainly isn't "cheap" - I was browsing through forums and saw people mention around $500 for one gouge to be fixed - so depends on how trashed your case is (in which case an entirely new case for an in production model would make sense depending on what the case is). For vintage there's lots of discussion on what should be disclosed as condition/polish/lack of polishing can affect price significiantly.

https://www.rolliworks.com/post/904l-laser-welding-case-repair-126600-deep-sea-dweller

This company came up a few times in my search for laser welding - that's an impressive job they did on the dssd - but I am pretty sure that didn't just cost 500 dollars (they do laser welding for gold, silver, 904L steel, 316L steel too).

I wouldn't have an issue getting a deep/multiple gouges fixed via laser welding for special pieces.

Came across this gem over on Reddit!
There are so many of the ultra high brands I've never even heard of!
Time to start googling some of them and trying to get myself a higher class of friend



*Edit* lots missing from this list too of course

Hublot above the likes of Rolex, Arnold & son, Zenith and Omega.

:eek:

Fitz II wrote: »

Some of the high end stuff there like MB&F produce super ugly wrist warts for the uber rich and in tiny numbers. FPJ is the current darling for the "investor" but generally these lists cause a lot of arguments....Hublot for instance that should be down in luxury at best.

I agree with you in FULL Fitz.

The list is a mishmash of brands that are designed to trigger a response from some who will claim outrage or upset at levels or exceptions

The high end stuff is interesting but the majority of it is Uber ugly imo.

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

Hublot above the likes of Rolex, Arnold & son, Zenith and Omega.

:eek:

Paul Thorpe last night said he likes some Hublot watches and bought several in the past. I like the dude and all but my finger is hovering over the unsub button

Wibbs wrote: »

Then again as Biver showed with Blancpain, all you need is a name and marketing rather than "authentic history" for the vast majority of buyers. Breguet the same.

Blancpain still manufacture for other high end brands though i believe. F Piguet was folded into Bllancpain and still do some stuff for AP and VC from what i remember.

As I've mentioned before, I have an affinity for fountain pens and my Mont Blanc Meisterstuck is my daily work horse. I am just finished 4 hours of interviews and used it for note taking the whole way through and it was flawless as always. BUT Mont Blanc is a pen maker. I wouldn't be pushed on buying one of their watches as they aren't a watch maker. I've a MB notebook which I got as a gift but that's where I draw the line. Similarly I quite like Hugo Boss for clothes but I wouldn't buy a HB watch nor Gucci or Prada or any other luxury brand as they are fashion designers, not watchmakers. I couldn't spend €500+ on a watch knowing it was probably made in a generic Chinese factory under license to use the branding.

Wibbs wrote: »

Though it was vital to the revival of the Swiss mechanical watch industry I think the amalgamations like LMVH and Swatch are a big part of the problem. When brands were independent there was more competition, innovation and prices were significantly keener. If you wanted a dive watch or a chronograph or a dress watch in say 1960 or 70, the "good watches" were all around the same price regardless of the brand. They had to be as they were competing for the same customer. When I say good watches I mean above basic gold plated Rotaries and the like and below Patek and the like(which vanishingly few had even heard about never mind were buying). Though the buying landscape has changed so much I'm not sure if the Swiss or the market could ever go back to that.

I think that's where the pressure from microbrands will come from - currently I see it as:
1. Chinese factory homage brands (when you just want to get something that's like the luxury watches for 1/10th the price)

2. Microbrands - when you want something above pure homage and may have that 7750, 2892, Batman GMTs etc. from a "brand" per se with support and value, just not rock bottom prices like the Merkur/Heimdallr/Phoibos etc.

3. Swiss basic luxury - the Oris and Longines and the like - I don't know how the Midos are going to survive in the long term with the pressures that microbrands put on them.

4. Swiss luxury luxury - the Omegas and Rolexes of the world - know that they need to move up the price chain and are retreating from the 2k arena for watches as that's too close to the more expensive microbrands like Monta and others (I think it's going to be a pretty bloody fight in the 1k arena between micros and budget Swiss luxury - Hamilton, Tissot, etc.)

5. Swiss ultra luxury stuff - which has both the Hublots and Pateks of the world - they're not going to be influenced by the microbrands - but may face pressures from the Rolexes and Omegas in the future - when Daytonas are above the cost of a VC chrono there is definitely market overlap I guess.

I dunno TF I'm not sure innovations make much of a difference except to a small minority. Even within the hardcore watch buyers of today it's a minority thing. Look at the most sought out, desirable brands and models out there. They're all about as innovative as a housebrick. The majority of the brands bread and butter sales are extremely traditional and conservative. Hublot to be fair aren't like that and why they're selling, though being fashionable doesn't tend to last too long.

True - WIS and different aspects of watch buyers can all operate in their little bubbles... I remember seeing a post on WUS about how "Is it just me, but celebrity endorsements mean nothing to me???" - but that same person may have a favourite Youtube reviewer/Instagrammer vs. traditional advertising endorsement... Longines sell massively to Chinese women (and some men) which we don't see here - and this kind of endorsement works quite well in that market:
https://www.longines.com/universe/ambassadors/zhao-liying
https://www.longines.com/universe/ambassadors/chi-ling-lin
So important that they have two ambassadors for China...

So saying that - on the technical side I guess the people who might appreciate a tourbillon (or the difference between a flying tourbillon, coaxial tourbillon or karrousel) are probably a very small sub-set of "normal" watch buyers.

And I see it too - that the amount of people who actually refer to their watches for time keeping purposes is growing smaller - even in the last 10 years or so - so it's funny that many WIS talk about accuracy and so on when so many people don't actually use watches to tell time and rather they are more "wrist jewellery" - which isn't disparaging in my opinion - humans like beautiful things and I think we can generally agree that a Moser Alp watch is more "beautiful" than an Apple Watch.

Well Montblanc a pen maker are flogging expensive luxury watches with almost zero history to the brand. Then again as Biver showed with Blancpain, all you need is a name and marketing rather than "authentic history" for the vast majority of buyers. Breguet the same.

"Precious resin" - gets me every time. I do have a lovely MB pen (gifted to me) and can understand why they'd be reluctant to call plastic, plastic but yeah the power of marketing is strong...

Eoin wrote: »

If you drop 30K on a watch that's taking the piss out of an Apple Watch - Apple isn't the one being trolled.

I see it (and perhaps this is their marketing working on me) that they're making these pieces as a rich person's novelty (and for the Swiss Mad 1 million CHF watch, an ultra rich person's novelty) - but also it means that they know that if you need a time keeping device - your phone/smart watch can do that for you - but it's what's inside that counts for the Alp watch...or their other more affordable pieces.

It's made me more inclined to have a look at their entry range too - and maybe that means for the people who had never heard of Moser before etc. they may get a few more customers out of making this piece (as well as selling this piece at a profit too). Advertising not through endorsements, but through their products. Is this a better spend of an advertising budget than what Rolex/Omega/Blancpain do? Only they will know...

Wibbs wrote: »

To be fair to BP they have had pretty much all of their innovations in watchmaking since the quartz crisis, they had almost none before it.

Have to admit that the grail I'm considering is a BP minute repeater - but that's because they seem to fall off a cliff in terms of cost come 2nd hand market...

Think around 70-90% drop in value from retail prices... we'll have to see - if grail comes first or I just build my own

That's end piece for me I think.