Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

BonnieSituation · 03-02-2021 07:46PM

CelticRambler wrote: »

I would think the best answer would be a simple: "why?" and that's it.

Let the UK spell out exactly what the problems are and why they can't sort them out themselves.

This is exactly the response that should be sent to them.

Igotadose · 03-02-2021 07:47PM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

This is exactly the response that should be sent to them.

Heck, they're a sovereign nation again (*cough*.) Why should the EU waste precious time with them? There are far more important, errr, fish to fry, nice fresh ones from Ireland if no others.

FrancieBrady · 03-02-2021 07:47PM

CelticRambler wrote: »

I would think the best answer would be a simple: "why?" and that's it.

Let the UK spell out exactly what the problems are and why they can't sort them out themselves.

Better still - tell them how to fix the problems.

Junkyard Tom · 03-02-2021 08:14PM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

They can't just say "ok" and that's it.

They can say 'OK fine, but you must stay aligned with our standards until then too, or no dice'.

Hurrache · 03-02-2021 08:17PM

So yeah, the Germans aren't entertaining their nonsense. Weber is not any oul politician.

https://twitter.com/ManfredWeber/status/1356995867262205958?s=19

Capt'n Midnight · 03-02-2021 08:54PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

What are the implications of the UK triggering Art 16?

murphaph wrote: »

If the protocol collapses the entire agreement should be revoked and full and hard border controls in Calais should come into force.

The Brits are slippery eels.

Just a reminder that while the UK as junior partner ratified the trade deal on 30th of December , the EU hasn't fully ratified it yet but should do by the end of the month. All going well that is.

https://www.ft.com/content/a093a913-b230-4559-80a2-8b5a55bf81c3

Provisional translations were “done with great haste in the run-up to 31 December” and “need careful checking”, said one EU official. Trade experts have started to discover errors.

Seth Brundle · 03-02-2021 09:26PM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

They can say 'OK fine, but you must stay aligned with our standards until then too, or no dice'.

But there's no point giving them extra time if they will just squander it, exactly as they did for the last number of years

Strazdas · 03-02-2021 09:33PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Tommy Gorman nailing who is pulling Gove's strings by pointing out that the 2023 date is to get the DUP through the Assembly elections.

Tony Connelly saying there is no mood in Brussels to get rid of the Protocol.

A few tweaks seems to be all they are offering.

Which is sensible. The Brexit Govt and the DUP are trying to renegotiate the Protocol....this was the thing that was absolutely pivotal in getting the withdrawal agreement signed and 'getting Brexit done'. Now they just want to cynically tear it up.

FrancieBrady · 03-02-2021 09:55PM

Gove's letter being laughed out of it. And I might've have known, seems the British are sitting on their hands on their part of the agreement.

https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1357067995739209737

Hurrache · 03-02-2021 09:58PM

It really does seem like a concerted plan between the Tories and the DUP especially considering the PSNI have no evidence regarding the mysterious 'threats'. The DUP offices are probably full of paint and brushes.
https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1357068009869889544?s=19

BorneTobyWilde · 03-02-2021 10:02PM

The EU could have given a little when the Cameron wanted something done about so many immigrants ending up in UK, and the £1.7bn budget surcharge the EU landed at UK's door at the time.

Hurrache · 03-02-2021 10:06PM

The UK had control over their own immigration policy though and already had lots of exemptions.

CelticRambler · 03-02-2021 10:06PM

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

The EU could have given a little when the Cameron wanted something done about so many immigrants ending up in UK ..

You mean like allowing the UK to impose restrictions on the self-same immigrants, just like most other EU members did?

As today's antics show, the UK is really great at not doing what it's supposed to do, or allowed do, or would be sensible to do, and then trying to blame it on others - especially the EU.

breezy1985 · 03-02-2021 10:14PM

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

The EU could have given a little when the Cameron wanted something done about so many immigrants ending up in UK, and the £1.7bn budget surcharge the EU landed at UK's door at the time.

Hey it's the "it's the EUs fault" the UK voted for Brexit thing again. Never gets old for a good laugh

cameramonkey · 03-02-2021 10:16PM

CelticRambler wrote: »

The way Johnson was talking today, and with this stick-waving letter from Gove, it wouldn't surprise me if the Tories do something really stupid in the next few weeks to keep a lid on whatever's going on in the paramilitary wing of the DUP,

The Tories don't care about the DUP, they I would say hate the sight of them.
The Tories are realising that the deal they did with the EU is a mess. They need to change a few things and will use the six county situation as a fig leaf to go back and beg a few concessions over things that matter to them. If the DUP think the Tories are doing their bidding for them they need to look at the recent past to see the future. The DUP have burned every bridge they have and have alienated the EU, The Brits and FF/FG. The only politics they have is to say no and now they have said that to everyone that matters so they are about to discover again how much they mean to their British compatriots..

Seth Brundle · 03-02-2021 10:19PM

So seemingly the fishermen feel conned (surely someone should have warned them about the potential effects of leaving the EU)...

https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/1357047663523422210?s=19

FrancieBrady · 03-02-2021 10:21PM

cameramonkey wrote: »

The Tories don't care about the DUP, they I would say hate the sight of them.
The Tories are realising that the deal they did with the EU is a mess. They need to change a few things and will use the six county situation as a fig leaf to go back and beg a few concessions over things that matter to them. If the DUP think the Tories are doing their bidding for them they need to look at the recent past to see the future. The DUP have burned every bridge they have and have alienated the EU, The Brits and FF/FG. The only politics they have is to say no and now they have said that to everyone that matters so they are about to discover again how much they mean to their British compatriots..

Quite possible it is elements within the Tories that are aiding this.
Gove was very bitter about the GFA being signed.

I agree with you though, they are on a hiding to nothing. EU will talk until the cows come home and they'll get very little.

fash · 03-02-2021 10:26PM

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

The EU could have given a little when the Cameron wanted something done about so many immigrants ending up in UK, and the £1.7bn budget surcharge the EU landed at UK's door at the time.

Actually the EU gave the UK far too much - they should have put Cameron in his place earlier and harder - to prevent him getting the stupid ideas he got. I understand the EU member states learnt the lesson - no more special treatment for the UK.

Sam Russell · 03-02-2021 10:27PM

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

The EU could have given a little when the Cameron wanted something done about so many immigrants ending up in UK, and the £1.7bn budget surcharge the EU landed at UK's door at the time.

It was a self defeating mission.

The EU is ruled by treaties, all of which the UK agreed to so looking for more opt outs was not going to fly. Also, the opt outs he asked for were already within his power - immigration from outside the EU is a national competence, which he clearly was not in control of - he just wanted an easy win by saying the EU fom was ended.

The EU rightly said no, but because he went cap in hand, to return with nothing was a major loss of face and cost him the referendum. His gamble failed.

Strazdas · 03-02-2021 10:32PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

It was a self defeating mission.

The EU is ruled by treaties, all of which the UK agreed to so looking for more opt outs was not going to fly. Also, the opt outs he asked for were already within his power - immigration from outside the EU is a national competence, which he clearly was not in control of - he just wanted an easy win by saying the EU fom was ended.

The EU rightly said no, but because he went cap in hand, to return with nothing was a major loss of face and cost him the referendum. His gamble failed.

The UK actually had the power to deport thousands of EU citizens in early 2016. This is why the EU refused to go along with his PR stunt : they knew he was just playing to the gallery.

He was essentially a Europhobe trying to keep other Europhobes happy and on board.

RobMc59 · 03-02-2021 10:33PM

I understand that there are a majority of posters here that have probably convinced themselves the EU are in control of things in NI but in reality they have shown a distinct lack of resolve.What are they going to do if there's another graffiti incident?Keep waving wagons through?
If an agreed breathing space allows the EU to save face what's the problem?

Sam Russell · 03-02-2021 10:39PM

RobMc59 wrote: »

I understand that there are a majority of posters here that have probably convinced themselves the EU are in control of things in NI but in reality they have shown a distinct lack of resolve.What are they going to do if there's another graffiti incident?Keep waving wagons through?
If an agreed breathing space allows the EU to save face what's the problem?

Waving the wagon through Larne is not really a problem for a while. Not much has changed in 5 weeks, and that includes the DUP.

The UK are burning more of their soft power and international reputation - world wide.

Remember, it was the UK based arm of Astra Zenika the welched on the deal to supply the EU vaccines from their plants. It was this that caused panic in the Commission that caused the misstep. Now the UK are in there trying to stir trouble.

listermint · 03-02-2021 10:45PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

It was a self defeating mission.

The EU is ruled by treaties, all of which the UK agreed to so looking for more opt outs was not going to fly. Also, the opt outs he asked for were already within his power - immigration from outside the EU is a national competence, which he clearly was not in control of - he just wanted an easy win by saying the EU fom was ended.

The EU rightly said no, but because he went cap in hand, to return with nothing was a major loss of face and cost him the referendum. His gamble failed.

I think that's revisionism in the highest.

No UK citizens were following Cameron's conversations with the EU at the time. In fact none of them were even looking for a referendum on anything at all.

Cameron is at fault for calling one to appears a small militant and secretive members club who wouldn't produce a members list. Then all the rhetoric started with the backing of dark money.

Nothing prior to above did any average Brit give a flying hoot about.

breezy1985 · 03-02-2021 10:48PM

RobMc59 wrote: »

I understand that there are a majority of posters here that have probably convinced themselves the EU are in control of things in NI but in reality they have shown a distinct lack of resolve.What are they going to do if there's another graffiti incident?Keep waving wagons through?
If an agreed breathing space allows the EU to save face what's the problem?

So the EU are not in control but are simultaneously in control of every aspect of our lives.

Schrodingers dictatorship

Eric Cartman · 03-02-2021 11:17PM

breezy1985 wrote: »

So the EU are not in control but are simultaneously in control of every aspect of our lives.

Schrodingers dictatorship

in some ways yes , in others no.

The EU is more like a really strict parent "you don't have to do x, but if you don't you can't do Y / we'll fine you "

BonnieSituation · 03-02-2021 11:32PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

in some ways yes , in others no.

The EU is more like a really strict parent "you don't have to do x, but if you don't you can't do Y / we'll fine you "

Is this the famous "third person EU" which is a completely different entity to the one of which Ireland and 26 other sovereign nations are members?

listermint · 03-02-2021 11:33PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

in some ways yes , in others no.

The EU is more like a really strict parent "you don't have to do x, but if you don't you can't do Y / we'll fine you "

Look it's fair to say. The comment your responded to shows off the rank hypocrisy of those that believe that stuff.

It's not even an opinion it's a means for creating disagreement. Because disagreement is the goal. It's the new crack of the 20's. In the 90s people took actually crack. Now they get high on seeking out contrary opinions like an addiction.

reslfj · 04-02-2021 12:08AM

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

....
The UK prior to leaving just tended to pluck someone for [commissioner] from the house of lords.

Only 2 out of 16 UK appointed EU Commissioners were (life) peers during their service in Brussels (Arthur Cockfield and Jonathan Hill).

Many were created a life peer after the end of their EU services.

The UK has had some very well respected commissioners during its 47 years membership - no least the Margaret Thatcher appointed 'father of the SM' Lord Cockfield.

Lars

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_Commissioners_by_nationality#United_Kingdom

tubercolossus · 04-02-2021 12:30AM

RobMc59 wrote: »

What are they going to do if there's another graffiti incident?

Oh it's game over, man. The EU will fold like the fabled cheap tent.

RobMc59 wrote: »

If an agreed breathing space allows the EU to save face what's the problem?

Very good of the British government to allow the EU 'breathing space to save face', I must say. Of a piece with them being so anxious that Ireland should have enough vaccine after being so horribly let down by the very same EU.

BorneTobyWilde · 04-02-2021 12:57AM

Sam Russell wrote: »

It was a self defeating mission.

The EU is ruled by treaties, all of which the UK agreed to so looking for more opt outs was not going to fly. Also, the opt outs he asked for were already within his power - immigration from outside the EU is a national competence, which he clearly was not in control of - he just wanted an easy win by saying the EU fom was ended.

The EU rightly said no, but because he went cap in hand, to return with nothing was a major loss of face and cost him the referendum. His gamble failed.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35622105

He got a lot from the EU, should have been enough. UK would be far better off with all these promised reforms, than what they have now.

Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

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