T8 Fluorescent to T8 LED

dp639 · 21-01-2021 2:56pm #1

Hi,
We've got a shed with 10 T8 Fluorescent tubes. Over the years some started to fail and it got to the point of 3 failing. So of I went and bought 3 new bulbs.

This fixed 1 of the 3. Looking inside one of the failing ones, it looks like the ballast is a bit messy looking. But I suppose it could be the ballast or even the starter causing issue. If I just bought the plug and play LED tubes I'd still have the ballast or starter issues. So I'm thinking of going to direct wired LEDs and getting rid of the ballast and starter.

Where can I get the non-shunted ends for the direct wired LED tubes, I can't seem to find them anywhere other than China or the US.

Any one got any ideas?

Thanks

Newuser2 · 21-01-2021 3:19pm

Buy the led fittings complete, the whole fitting

Don't bother with tubes ,adapters any of that stuff waste of time

Electrical wholesalers will have them

dp639 · 21-01-2021 6:22pm

Thanks
But do you mean the whole unit?

Why when all I need is the tube and the correct holders at each end.

Newuser2 · 21-01-2021 6:28pm

dp639 wrote: »

Thanks
But do you mean the whole unit?

Why when all I need is the tube and the correct holders at each end.

You could call that a repair so you might get a few years out of it

New fitting you might get 10 years out of it

Better efficiency and light output

Waterproofing issues with your method likely

Time consuming and probably annoying to repair

antoinolachtnai · 21-01-2021 6:32pm

The real cost of replacing the light bulbs is the time it takes and the risk each time. If you can replace the unit now and then not have to go near it again for ten years or maybe even longer that is a great result and worth a few extra euro.

dp639 · 22-01-2021 2:17pm

Thanks all - I know what you mean about time/effort etc.

dp639 · 29-01-2021 5:01pm

Quick update on this as it may be useful to someone.

I had 3 failing Fluorescent tubes so I bit the bullet and bought (for starters) 1 new 1500mm LED unit with tube sealed. Yes it was great to work with, easy to wire and gives of great light. But at 47 euro its a bit much especially as it is sealed so once its done I'll need to buy a full unit again - not very environmentally friendly either.

So I decided to look at alternatives. After a bit of research mostly on US websites (us Irish seem to prefer replace an item than to repair an item).

Anyway I bought a single Philips tube, single ended for about 9 euro in the local electrical wholesaler. I rewired my existing fixture removing the ballast, the starter and most of the wiring, simply wired the live & neutral to one of the lampholder/tombstones and wired the earth - the other tombstone is just a holder - no wires going to it.

It took all of 10mins and another 5 mins giving the unit itself a bit of a clean.

One thing is to be certain your tombstone is UNSHUNTED for this to work, going by the original wiring it had to be unshunted but I also checked with my multi-meter - otherwise you'd need to go for a double ended tube.

I will say the 47 euro unit is nice and if its only 1 light you are dealing or if the location is nice then it could be worth it, but I was replacing tubes in a cattle shed (potentially 12 of them) so this is a good cheap way of moving from Fluorescent to LED.

I can post before and after pictures if anyway would like, I've another to do next week.

Malcomex · 29-01-2021 5:58pm

dp639 wrote: »

Quick update on this as it may be useful to someone.

I had 3 failing Fluorescent tubes so I bit the bullet and bought (for starters) 1 new 1500mm LED unit with tube sealed. Yes it was great to work with, easy to wire and gives of great light. But at 47 euro its a bit much especially as it is sealed so once its done I'll need to buy a full unit again - not very environmentally friendly either.

So I decided to look at alternatives. After a bit of research mostly on US websites (us Irish seem to prefer replace an item than to repair an item).

Anyway I bought a single Philips tube, single ended for about 9 euro in the local electrical wholesaler. I rewired my existing fixture removing the ballast, the starter and most of the wiring, simply wired the live & neutral to one of the lampholder/tombstones and wired the earth - the other tombstone is just a holder - no wires going to it.

It took all of 10mins and another 5 mins giving the unit itself a bit of a clean.

One thing is to be certain your tombstone is UNSHUNTED for this to work, going by the original wiring it had to be unshunted but I also checked with my multi-meter - otherwise you'd need to go for a double ended tube.

I will say the 47 euro unit is nice and if its only 1 light you are dealing or if the location is nice then it could be worth it, but I was replacing tubes in a cattle shed (potentially 12 of them) so this is a good cheap way of moving from Fluorescent to LED.

I can post before and after pictures if anyway would like, I've another to do next week.

Tombstone? Unshunted?

You're faster than most electricians there in 10 minutes

So is it just one end cap wired direct to the mains- is that what you're saying ?

The other end cap is redundant and supports the tube?

dp639 · 29-01-2021 6:31pm

Malcomex wrote: »

Tombstone? Unshunted?

https://www.homelectrical.com/shunted-vs-non-shunted-tombstone.html

Malcomex wrote: »

So is it just one end cap wired direct to the mains- is that what you're saying ?

The other end cap is redundant and supports the tube?

Yes on both questions

Malcomex · 29-01-2021 7:36pm

dp639 wrote: »

https://www.homelectrical.com/shunted-vs-non-shunted-tombstone.html

Yes on both questions

The overall efficiency won't be as good with tubes compared to new fittings

Taking into account reflectors? and clean diffusers etc.

How much were the tubes then?

Malcomex · 29-01-2021 7:56pm

dp639 wrote: »

https://www.homelectrical.com/shunted-vs-non-shunted-tombstone.html

Yes on both questions

I've never heard of any of that terminology in all my time working, you learn something new everyday

The traditional fluorescent tube is non-shunted using that terminology there

Iodine1 · 30-01-2021 12:15am

What does shunt and non -shunted mean?

Malcomex · 30-01-2021 5:50am

Iodine1 wrote: »

What does shunt and non -shunted mean?

It's in the link

Shunted just means the 2 terminals on the end cap are linked out

You can shunt an end cap yourself just by linking the terminals

Malcomex · 30-01-2021 7:07am

That's a US link ,that's where the jargon is coming from

Never heard those terms used here

Iodine1 · 30-01-2021 10:03am

A-ha! Thanks , I've a habit of just skipping over the links as they often take ages to load. Thanks.

Malcomex · 30-01-2021 10:17am

Iodine1 wrote: »

A-ha! Thanks , I've a habit of just skipping over the links as they often take ages to load. Thanks.

It took me a while to get the tombstone reference

The Americans have a literal way of naming things

When I was at FAS the term used was End-Caps

dp639 · 30-01-2021 11:10am

Malcomex wrote: »

The overall efficiency won't be as good with tubes compared to new fittings

Taking into account reflectors? and clean diffusers etc.

How much were the tubes then?

Hi there,

The tubes were about 9 or 10 euro.

I did say the 1 new complete unit I bought was great but I just needed a cheaper solution.

The retro fitted unit is better than what was there in the first place with the fluorescent and maybe with the next retro fit I'll put in new end caps (or tombstones :-) ) - they are only a euro a piece in most places.

I'm happy with it and it is what it is! By no means am I saying it's the best thing to do.

dp639 · 30-01-2021 11:12am

Malcomex wrote: »

I've never heard of any of that terminology in all my time working, you learn something new everyday

The traditional fluorescent tube is non-shunted using that terminology there

Are you an electrician? Maybe this is why I found it hard to find references to 'tombstones' on UK/Ireland sites - the right term is 'end-caps'?

Malcomex · 30-01-2021 11:19am

dp639 wrote: »

Are you an electrician? Maybe this is why I found it hard to find references to 'tombstones' on UK/Ireland sites - the right term is 'end-caps'?

Ya I'm an electrician, End-Caps is the only name I ever used for them

dp639 · 30-01-2021 1:50pm

Malcomex wrote: »

Ya I'm an electrician, End-Caps is the only name I ever used for them

Thank God I didn’t go to the electrical wholesaler and ask for tombstones!! I’d have had some strange looks!!

Maybe you should start calling them tombstones on Monday for the laugh

Malcomex · 30-01-2021 1:56pm

What's the wattage of the led tubes ?

I presume the fluorescent were 5ft 58 watt?

The led then needs to be about 35 watt to give the equivalent light , higher will give more light

The overall wattage of the fluorescent is higher than 58 for a 5'. You have to add on more for a magnetic ballast to get the wattage of the fitting itself ,so it should be roughly half the usage for equivalent light output .
That's off a quick google of the numbers, could be wrong.

dp639 · 30-01-2021 2:08pm

Malcomex wrote: »

What's the wattage of the led tubes ?

I presume the fluorescent were 5ft 58 watt?

The led then needs to be about 35 watt to give the equivalent light , higher will give more light

The overall wattage of the fluorescent is higher than 58 for a 5'. You have to add on more for a magnetic ballast to get the wattage of the fitting itself ,so it should be roughly half the usage for equivalent light output .
That's off a quick google of the numbers, could be wrong.

yes they were 58watt, this new tube is only 20w -,it’s grand for what it’s job is - live and learn.

For my garage/workshop I’ll definitely put in new LED units complete

Malcomex · 30-01-2021 2:18pm

dp639 wrote: »

yes they were 58watt, this new tube is only 20w -,it’s grand for what it’s job is - live and learn.

For my garage/workshop I’ll definitely put in new LED units complete

Ya they're not equivalent at all

5ft fluorescent is over 5000L , 5ft 20w led seems to be about 2000L off google

Malcomex · 30-01-2021 2:46pm

https://www.screwfix.ie/p/sylvania-luxline-plus-g13-t8-fluorescent-tube-5200lm-58w-1500mm/96871

https://www.screwfix.ie/p/lap-twin-5ft-led-batten-white-60w-5600lm/7223v

Those numbers I posted first for the equivalent Led don't seem to be correct

Surprisingly the led fitting wattage seems to be very similar to fluorescent for equivalent lumens

Roughly 60 watt= 5500L not far off the same

That corresponds to the figure I posted for your 20watt tube , about 2000L

T8 Fluorescent to T8 LED

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