Law Firm Milkrounds 20/21

LawBoy2018 · 28-01-2021 11:14pm

NewFe1 wrote: »

Have a friend in Eversheds and I'm fairly sure he told me it was 42k

Nope, 38K. Asked my friend since posting earlier.

IgoPAP · 28-01-2021 11:17pm

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

Nope, 38K. Asked my friend since posting earlier.

May have been reduced due to Covid paycuts

LawBoy2018 · 28-01-2021 11:18pm

IgoPAP wrote: »

May have been reduced due to Covid paycuts

Hers was agreed when she signed her contract in 2018/2019.

biglawhead420 · 29-01-2021 10:28am

IgoPAP wrote: »

May have been reduced due to Covid paycuts

Any idea if big 5 cut trainee salaries too?

None of the UK firms did really. They sort of focused on over 80k earners and partners.

rightytighty · 29-01-2021 10:32am

biglawhead420 wrote: »

Any idea if big 5 cut trainee salaries too?

None of the UK firms did really. They sort of focused on over 80k earners and partners.

I think some firms may have cut salaries/frozen bonuses for higher-ranking employees here too. I don’t remember hearing about any reductions for trainees in top 5 and would know people in 4 of them.

LawBoy2018 · 29-01-2021 11:28am

biglawhead420 wrote: »

Any idea if big 5 cut trainee salaries too?

None of the UK firms did really. They sort of focused on over 80k earners and partners.

Yeah they did in my firm but they've been restored again.

law987 · 29-01-2021 11:51am

Is most people's trainee salary agreed when they get their offer and sign the contract, even if it's 2/3 years until they start?

I've a TC and they're not committing to any salary, saying it's too early to say, especially with Covid. Don't want to say too high or too low, but it would be great to know.

FE1Hopefully1 · 29-01-2021 12:06pm

law987 wrote: »

Is most people's trainee salary agreed when they get their offer and sign the contract, even if it's 2/3 years until they start?

I've a TC and they're not committing to any salary, saying it's too early to say, especially with Covid. Don't want to say too high or too low, but it would be great to know.

From my knowledge most are given the salary in the contract - I’m sure there’s a caveat to allow them to reduce it or increase it before the contract starts but usually people have an idea

LawBoy2018 · 29-01-2021 12:06pm

law987 wrote: »

Is most people's trainee salary agreed when they get their offer and sign the contract, even if it's 2/3 years until they start?

I've a TC and they're not committing to any salary, saying it's too early to say, especially with Covid. Don't want to say too high or too low, but it would be great to know.

Not even a ballpark? It would be unusual for one to sign a training contract without being told what the salary will be.

law987 · 29-01-2021 12:09pm

I know right! It wasn't a full contract, quite short and obviously conditional on passing FE1s. Rang and HR still couldn't commit. (not Eversheds btw)

LawBoy2018 · 29-01-2021 12:10pm

law987 wrote: »

I know right! It wasn't a full contract, quite short and obviously conditional on passing FE1s. Rang and HR still couldn't commit.

Is it a small firm?

law987 · 29-01-2021 12:11pm

No, in the top 10

LawBoy2018 · 29-01-2021 12:12pm

law987 wrote: »

No, in the top 10

Very strange! I've never heard of that happening before.

FE1Hopefully1 · 29-01-2021 12:15pm

law987 wrote: »

I know right! It wasn't a full contract, quite short and obviously conditional on passing FE1s. Rang and HR still couldn't commit. (not Eversheds btw)

I suppose they’re just being cautious at this time

IgoPAP · 29-01-2021 1:08pm

I have a TC with Arthur Cox and they do describe salary, but says its reviewed every year. MF had pay cuts and freezes imposed last year but they've opened up again

IgoPAP · 29-01-2021 1:08pm

law987 wrote: »

No, in the top 10

Dillon Eustace?

Corplawtrainee · 29-01-2021 2:15pm

Yeah heading to AC as well, the partners seemed pretty good about taking the brunt of the hit. Don’t think associates and trainees pay was affected.

Fedone · 29-01-2021 3:30pm

Any advice for the Arthur Cox Watson glasser text for the internship?

Lallers96 · 29-01-2021 3:32pm

Just got a PFO there from MJ Staines

IgoPAP · 29-01-2021 3:34pm

Fedone wrote: »

Any advice for the Arthur Cox Watson glasser text for the internship?

Do a few free prep ones on the Internet. There's a subtle difference between different sections that you really need to appreciate for starting the test. I also wouldn't worry too much about the result, I know on good authority that as long as you hit a minimum benchmark they don't really care much about the results beyond that for AC

Corplawtrainee · 29-01-2021 3:45pm

I thankfully did my internship the summer the WG got introduced. They got all the interns to do it and the results varied drastically. I was awful at them when applying to London firms. Grad rec was pretty adamant that they would only factor it in if they were really clutching at straws to choose between the last remaining people. If you’re generally a strong candidate I don’t think it will be an issue.

Lallers96 · 29-01-2021 3:54pm

Obviously gutted that I didn't even get an interview for Michael Staines, but I would still like to get some experience there. Is there any point in me applying for their summer internship which opens up Monday if I didn't get past the first stage?

Fair enough my grades are not good from college, however I didn't include that in my application so as far as they know I have years of work experience, a law degree, and 3/8 FE1s done. All I can see from that is that I'm lacking any legal experience, which is near impossible to get now with Covid restrictions.

Second question, would it be worth my while replying to the rejection email asking for advice, or why I fell short?

FE1Nov20 · 29-01-2021 3:54pm

Lallers96 wrote: »

Just got a PFO there from MJ Staines

Sorry to hear you got that but thanks for letting us know! I'm still waiting on some correspondence

jus_me · 29-01-2021 3:56pm

FE1Nov20 wrote: »

Sorry to hear you got that but thanks for letting us know! I'm still waiting on some correspondence

Still waiting too- at least they’re letting us know regardless

FE1Hopefully1 · 29-01-2021 3:57pm

Lallers96 wrote: »

Obviously gutted that I didn't even get an interview for Michael Staines, but I would still like to get some experience there. Is there any point in me applying for their summer internship which opens up Monday if I didn't get past the first stage?

Fair enough my grades are not good from college, however I didn't include that in my application so as far as they know I have years of work experience, a law degree, and 3/8 FE1s done. All I can see from that is that I'm lacking any legal experience, which is near impossible to get now with Covid restrictions.

Second question, would it be worth my while replying to the rejection email asking for advice, or why I fell short?

I don’t see the harm in applying for the summer internship !! I’d say maybe they could have prioritized people with the FE1s compete for the trainee interview some firms seem to do that.

I’d definitely apply for the internship

NewFe1 · 29-01-2021 4:09pm

Lallers96 wrote: »

Obviously gutted that I didn't even get an interview for Michael Staines, but I would still like to get some experience there. Is there any point in me applying for their summer internship which opens up Monday if I didn't get past the first stage?

Fair enough my grades are not good from college, however I didn't include that in my application so as far as they know I have years of work experience, a law degree, and 3/8 FE1s done. All I can see from that is that I'm lacking any legal experience, which is near impossible to get now with Covid restrictions.

Second question, would it be worth my while replying to the rejection email asking for advice, or why I fell short?

The answer to both of your questions is obviously yes. Apply for the internship and ask for feedback. You can gain so much and lose absolutely nothing from doing them.

Lallers96 · 29-01-2021 4:15pm

Thanks for the advice guys, helpful as always. I'll shoot them an email and as you say what's to lose.

NewFe1 · 29-01-2021 4:19pm

Lallers96 wrote: »

Thanks for the advice guys, helpful as always. I'll shoot them an email and as you say what's to lose.

FWIW I got rejected after an interview for a traineeship with a top 5 firm. I emailed back asking for feedback. Got on very well with the person who rang me to give me feedback and she said to apply for the internship, she would make sure I got an interview and also earmark my name. I got offered a contract elsewhere so didn't need it in the end, but that would have been a massive help and would have come from simply asking for feedback.

IgoPAP · 29-01-2021 4:54pm

NewFe1 wrote: »

FWIW I got rejected after an interview for a traineeship with a top 5 firm. I emailed back asking for feedback. Got on very well with the person who rang me to give me feedback and she said to apply for the internship, she would make sure I got an interview and also earmark my name. I got offered a contract elsewhere so didn't need it in the end, but that would have been a massive help and would have come from simply asking for feedback.

Seconded. Always ask for feedback. You'll never go wrong.

OMGWACA · 29-01-2021 6:04pm

Fedone wrote: »

Any advice for the Arthur Cox Watson glasser text for the internship?

Can be really helpful to do well in if you dont have the strongest college grades, shows your critical, analytical thinking.
I'd say to read the questions really carefully, the questions are purposely framed so it would be easy to misinterpret them, do/dont, can/cant etc. And dont second guess yourself too much, stick with your gut instinct and you'll be fine!

channing90 · 29-01-2021 6:38pm

Got nothing off staines yet. So frustrating. There must 100s applying.

FE1Hopefully1 · 29-01-2021 6:59pm

channing90 wrote: »

Got nothing off staines yet. So frustrating. There must 100s applying.

Yeah I had applied for a job in Cavan last year and they literally had 500 people applying

IgoPAP · 29-01-2021 7:38pm

FE1Hopefully1 wrote: »

Yeah I had applied for a job in Cavan last year and they literally had 500 people applying

Not sure 500 people even live in Cavan

FE1Hopefully1 · 29-01-2021 8:01pm

IgoPAP wrote: »

Not sure 500 people even live in Cavan

Haha well I don’t even live in Cavan 😂

awsah · 29-01-2021 8:36pm

FE1Pleb wrote: »

How do those training with criminal firms expect to pay for Blackhall?
If you don't mind sharing, what are those in criminal firms earning whilst training and expect to earn after?
Currently on 23k and can't see myself getting a raise pre-blackhall

I am banking on the access program, I don't have a law degree, so they won't decide on my application until I have passed all the fe1s, after that hoping for a student grant or bursary from law society and as a last resort loans/begging from family!
I honestly don't know what I am going to be expecting to earn after, only going to be making around25K while training so obviously not as much as the big firms but I love the work, so I am not complaining!

FE1Hopefully1 · 29-01-2021 8:40pm

awsah wrote: »

I am banking on the access program, I don't have a law degree, so they won't decide on my application until I have passed all the fe1s, after that hoping for a student grant or bursary from law society and as a last resort loans/begging from family!
I honestly don't know what I am going to be expecting to earn after, only going to be making around25K while training so obviously not as much as the big firms but I love the work, so I am not complaining!

I also think we can apply for susi - you don’t get a maintenance grant with it but covers fees

awsah · 29-01-2021 8:42pm

FE1Hopefully1 wrote: »

I also think we can happily for susi - you don’t get a maintenance grant with it but covers fees

yes sorry that's what I mean with grant, when I was in college (all those many years ago) it was the country council grant so couldnt think of its name now. i think you need to have a law masters to qualify for professional exams (or manbe thats only if you got a grand for a masters) I ahve an LLM but I think I qualify, I hope I do anyway!

FE1Hopefully1 · 29-01-2021 8:46pm

awsah wrote: »

yes sorry that's what I mean with grant, when I was in college (all those many years ago) it was the country council grant so couldnt think of its name now. i think you need to have a law masters to qualify for professional exams (or manbe thats only if you got a grand for a masters) I ahve an LLM but I think I qualify, I hope I do anyway!

/https://www.lawsociety.ie/Trainees/PPC-Courses/Fees--Funding/

From my reading you don’t need a
Master and if you have one you only qualify if it’s in law so you’re all good !!

awsah · 29-01-2021 8:53pm

FE1Hopefully1 wrote: »

awsah wrote: »

yes sorry that's what I mean with grant, when I was in college (all those many years ago) it was the country council grant so couldnt think of its name now. i think you need to have a law masters to qualify for professional exams (or manbe thats only if you got a grand for a masters) I ahve an LLM but I think I qualify, I hope I do anyway!

/https://www.lawsociety.ie/Trainees/PPC-Courses/Fees--Funding/

From my reading you don’t need a
Master and if you have one you only qualify if it’s in law so you’re all good !!

oh yes that's great then I am hoping that one of those options works out!

Legalmate · 30-01-2021 12:18am

Who do people consider the ‘big training firms’ these days? Say top 10?

My sibling is looking for guidance as to who to apply for.

IgoPAP · 30-01-2021 1:10am

Legalmate wrote: »

Who do people consider the ‘big training firms’ these days? Say top 10?

My sibling is looking for guidance as to who to apply for.

By number of practicing certs:

https://www.irishlegal.com/article/arthur-cox-tops-chart-for-most-practising-solicitors-in-ireland

The idea of 'Big 10' will be less and less relevant with the entrance of international firms like DLA, Dechert, Dentons, etc., when they pay better.

Hopefully it'll push up salaries for the rest of us. The only reason the MCs offer 6 figure 1PQE salaries in London is because of the US firms.

NewFe1 · 30-01-2021 1:13am

IgoPAP wrote: »

By number of practicing certs:

https://www.irishlegal.com/article/arthur-cox-tops-chart-for-most-practising-solicitors-in-ireland

The idea of 'Big 10' will be less and less relevant with the entrance of international firms like DLA, Dechert, Dentons, etc., when they pay better.

Any idea where Fieldfisher would rank among this? Assume they're not on it as they're new in Ireland

IgoPAP · 30-01-2021 1:19am

NewFe1 wrote: »

Any idea where Fieldfisher would rank among this? Assume they're not on it as they're new in Ireland

The raw rankings only take number of practicing certs into consideration. It's not very accurate as it doesn't take into account factors such as solvency, profitability, client base, etc. The likes of behemoths like Dechert, DLA, PS, Fieldfisher, would rank much higher.

I wouldn't worry about these rankings it doesn't really mean anything. If the firm has a good reputation and pays a decent salary that's all you need.

Legalmate · 30-01-2021 1:22am

IgoPAP wrote: »

The raw rankings only take number of practicing certs into consideration. It's not very accurate as it doesn't take into account factors such as solvency, profitability, client base, etc. The likes of behemoths like Dechert, DLA, PS, Fieldfisher, would rank much higher.

I wouldn't worry about these rankings it doesn't really mean anything. If the firm has a good reputation and pays a decent salary that's all you need.

IgoPAP you seem to be very clued in. Who are PS?

Putting aside the new firms - who to the best of my knowledge offer few TCs - who are the best 8-10 firms to apply to?

FE1Hopefully1 · 30-01-2021 1:23am

Legalmate wrote: »

Who do people consider the ‘big training firms’ these days? Say top 10?

My sibling is looking for guidance as to who to apply for.

My advice is to apply for all and any training contracts that are advertised. There’s no point closing yourself off to other firms just because you like the idea of saying you work in one of the big 10 once you’re a solicitor you’re a solicitor and where you trained becomes less important in some aspects.

Some people are suited to the bigger firms and others are not and will hate it so my advice would to identify what area of law you’re interested in and apply to those firms !

FE1Hopefully1 · 30-01-2021 1:26am

NewFe1 wrote: »

Any idea where Fieldfisher would rank among this? Assume they're not on it as they're new in Ireland

They’re not really new per say they merged with a big Irish firm a few years ago so I think they’re in the top 10

IgoPAP · 30-01-2021 1:29am

FE1Hopefully1 wrote: »

My advice is to apply for all and any training contracts that are advertised. There’s no point closing yourself off to other firms just because you like the idea of saying you work in one of the big 10 once you’re a solicitor you’re a solicitor and where you trained becomes less important in some aspects.

Some people are suited to the bigger firms and others are not and will hate it so my advice would to identify what area of law you’re interested in and apply to those firms !

This is good advice! There's some excellent boutique firms in Dublin - especially in litigation - where you might end up getting better hands on training than the big outfits.

FE1Hopefully1 · 30-01-2021 1:33am

NewFe1 wrote: »

I know yes but McDowell Purcell wouldn't have been big enough to be on the list

Oh I was under the impression it was for some reason

Lawbloke · 30-01-2021 1:39am

NewFe1 wrote: »

No... I'm just curious as to where Fieldfisher ranks among the Irish firms now given they've become a lot bigger here since the merger.

Tier 4?

NewFe1 · 30-01-2021 2:02am

FE1Hopefully1 wrote: »

Oh I was under the impression it was for some reason

Sorry yes you are correct, they are. I completely missed that when reading the list.

Law Firm Milkrounds 20/21

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