What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

emmalynn19 · 28-01-2021 04:31PM

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

So you’d spend billions with a company who are known to break NDAs regardless of the circumstances? Wow!

What?

Another one for the ignore list. Very difficult to get any real info on whats happening with this due to the amount of Tory shills swarming all over every source.

Call me Al · 28-01-2021 04:33PM

Mark1916 wrote: »

https://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/unternehmen/astra-zeneca-will-mehr-impfstoff-liefern-17169846.html

Based on a loose translation, looks like there might be some white smoke between the EU and AstraZeneca “originally there was a volume of 80M for the first quarter, at the weekend the company reduced this to 31M”

“It is not likely we will end up with 80M but it should be significantly more than 31M”

While not wanting to pre-empt what significantly more equates to, isn't it amazing how the language has changed since the EU pushed back on them.
And how the vaccine number we will now receive has miraculously increased.

is_that_so · 28-01-2021 04:34PM

Call me Al wrote: »

While not wanting to pre-empt what significantly more equates to, isn't it amazing how the language has changed since the EU pushed back on them.
And how the vaccine number we will now receive has miraculously increased.

Peter, Paul and robbery are probably a part of the equation!

Melanchthon · 28-01-2021 04:35PM

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

If that is true, then it looks like the EU are in the right here. They use the production facilities that the EU has provided funding for to ramp up production for the UK and at the same time tells the EU it is reducing the amount it will provide them with. That isn't right.

Well it sounds like they are going to publish the supply contract so it should settle this.

Also this financial times graph is interesting and relevant to my question as too how the EU could be spending so much less than the UK but still be funding building up manufacturing capacity and development costs.

https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/https%3A%2F%2Fd6c748xw2pzm8.cloudfront.net%2Fprod%2F434de610-5e2d-11eb-915d-e58be24bb180-standard.png?dpr=1&fit=scale-down&quality=highest&source=next&width=700

https://www.ft.com/content/c9bbc753-97fb-493a-bbb6-dd97a7c4b807

lawred2 · 28-01-2021 04:36PM

emmalynn19 wrote: »

What?

Another one for the ignore list. Very difficult to get any real info on whats happening with this due to the amount of Tory shills swarming all over every source.

Is there anywhere remaining not yet polluted by this culture wars crap?

Philburns · 28-01-2021 04:37PM

monkeybutter wrote: »

this from a man who still hasn't been given a peek at the eu or uk contract with AZ

now that is hilarious

the poster was trolling, brand new poster, with what can only be described as a hilarious made up post

New user since Sep 2018?

Some people quietly read threads here and don't always say a lot... Try not to jump to conclusions, and try to be polite!

Russman · 28-01-2021 04:43PM

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

Both sides of the argument are ‘if this is true’ nobody other than the EC and AZ know the truth.

As for comments saying why don’t AZ just publish the contract, what business is going to blow away an NDA and publish a contract regardless of the other side saying so it. You may as well declare bankruptcy now as no-one would touch you ever again!

I think that ship has sailed, from an EU perspective anyway.

monkeybutter · 28-01-2021 04:44PM

Philburns wrote: »

New user since Sep 2018?

Some people quietly read threads here and don't always say a lot... Try not to jump to conclusions, and try to be polite!

loads of people have multiple accounts setup for trolling

re read the posts, it would be hard to believe them

josip · 28-01-2021 04:45PM

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

So you’d spend billions with a company who are known to break NDAs regardless of the circumstances? Wow!

Do you even know what an NDA is?

HalfAndHalf · 28-01-2021 04:47PM

emmalynn19 wrote: »

What?

Another one for the ignore list. Very difficult to get any real info on whats happening with this due to the amount of Tory shills swarming all over every source.

Feel free, your ONE Twitter source isn’t exactly iron clad proof now is it. One eyed much!

HalfAndHalf · 28-01-2021 04:48PM

josip wrote: »

Do you even know what an NDA is?

Yes thanks do you?

If you do then why would you do business with a company known to have broken one, regardless of being told to by the other side. It’s breaking trust.

Great input though, thanks.

Melanchthon · 28-01-2021 04:49PM

lawred2 wrote: »

Is there anywhere remaining not yet polluted by this culture wars crap?

Despite that posters contention when you look at the thread it's clear one side has been pushing probably false claims in terms of when contracts were signed and it wasn't those that were skeptical of the EU's claims.
Multiple times it's been claimed that the EU reached agreement in June despite the German health ministers signed letter saying otherwise.

28-01-2021 04:50PM

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

So you’d spend billions with a company who are known to break NDAs regardless of the circumstances? Wow!

Christ almighty, you're really clutching at straws here. :rolleyes:

It's not breaking an NDA if both parties agree to waive it.

HalfAndHalf · 28-01-2021 04:54PM

Flying Fox wrote: »

Christ almighty, you're really clutching at straws here. :rolleyes:

It's not breaking an NDA if both parties agree to waive it.

How is it clutching at straws. One side hadn’t agreed to have they! Probably because of the damage breaking an NDA would do to any business.

This thread needs renaming to ‘what’s going on with AZ, how dare they go against our dearest buddies the EU, they should do whatever they’re told cos they’re out bestest friends in the whole wide world and couldn’t possibly have made a booboo and got something wrong because they’re just perfect in every way!

Too many people seem happy to not ask any questions and just take it as gospel that the EU are right and have handled this in the best way for the safety of its people.

A sorry state of affairs of blindly following!

It’s not anti-EU to ask questions and hold them to account, and just because some people say it is doesn’t make it true. But I guess if you’re happy blimey following them from afar then so be it.

emmalynn19 · 28-01-2021 04:56PM

Melanchthon wrote: »

Despite that posters contention when you look at the thread it's clear one side has been pushing probably false claims in terms of when contracts were signed and it wasn't those that were skeptical of the EU's claims.
Multiple times it's been claimed that the EU reached agreement in June despite the German health ministers signed letter saying otherwise.

Contract was signed on 27th August 2020, this is easily verifiable.

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_20_1524

Melanchthon · 28-01-2021 05:02PM

Well looks like the argument that if EU are wanting the contract published and Astra Zeneca don't, means that Astra's contract probably doesn't say what the CEO said it did is gone.

https://finance.yahoo.com/finance/news/astrazeneca-prepared-publish-eu-vaccine-145151161.html?guccounter=1

28-01-2021 05:03PM

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

How is it clutching at straws. One side hadn’t agreed to have they! Probably because of the damage breaking an NDA would do to any business.

You stated that Astrazeneca will not agree to publish the contract with the EU because in doing so they would be breaking an NDA, and this would damage their reputation. As several posters have pointed out to you, the EU has waived the NDA on their side by requesting publication. Therefore Astrazeneca is free to publish it.

You're just flapping in the wind here and clearly don't understand what an NDA is.

emmalynn19 · 28-01-2021 05:04PM

Melanchthon wrote: »

Well looks like the argument that if EU are wanting the contract published and Astra Zeneca don't, means that Astra's contract probably doesn't say what the CEO said it did is gone.

https://finance.yahoo.com/finance/news/astrazeneca-prepared-publish-eu-vaccine-145151161.html?guccounter=1

Whats the bets people will still argue about it what it actually says even after its published

josip · 28-01-2021 05:05PM

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

Yes thanks do you?

If you do then why would you do business with a company known to have broken one, regardless of being told to by the other side. It’s breaking trust.

Sigh.
Posting this here in case there are others reading this thread who might be misguided by your posts. They are completely incorrect.
Every NDA would include a section such as the following.

Publicity

No receiving Party will without the prior consent in writing of the disclosing Party either release any press statement or issue any other publicity regarding the existence, scope, objective, conduct, performance or results of any proposed or actual contract between any of the Parties.

So AZ could not be breaking an NDA by publishing the contract with the express consent of the EU, because exactly such an event is allowed by and catered for in every NDA.

HalfAndHalf · 28-01-2021 05:06PM

Flying Fox wrote: »

You stated that Astrazeneca will not agree to publish the contract with the EU because in doing so they would be breaking an NDA, and this would damage their reputation. As several posters have pointed out to you, the EU has waived the NDA on their side by requesting publication. Therefore Astrazeneca is free to publish it.

You're just flapping in the wind here and clearly don't understand what an NDA is.

Ok so!

Melanchthon · 28-01-2021 05:12PM

emmalynn19 wrote: »

Whats the bets people will still argue about it what it actually says even after its published

Oh definitely but the lawyers that will matter will be being payed half a million a year or more to argue over it, while we do it for free :pac:

Probes · 28-01-2021 05:20PM

It seems pretty clear to me that if AstraZeneca are fulfilling orders elsewhere, and are also transporting vaccine out of the EU, then they aren't providing their best effort. I can't see how they are in the right at all here, despite the EU's treacle like pace in approving it.

Bit cynical · 28-01-2021 05:25PM

Probes wrote: »

It seems pretty clear to me that if AstraZeneca are fulfilling orders elsewhere, and are also transporting vaccine out of the EU, then they aren't providing their best effort. I can't see how they are in the right at all here, despite the EU's treacle like pace in approving it.

I think the assumption here is that the export contracts are pretty much the same as AZ's contract with the EU. However, the contracts upon which they are exporting may not have the same degree of leeway as their contract with the EU. Therefore best efforts in fulfilling the EU contract may involve these exports outside the EU. None of the contracts have been made public so we can't assume anything yet.

fly_agaric · 28-01-2021 05:33PM

Melanchthon wrote: »

Despite that posters contention when you look at the thread it's clear one side has been pushing probably false claims in terms of when contracts were signed and it wasn't those that were skeptical of the EU's claims.
Multiple times it's been claimed that the EU reached agreement in June despite the German health ministers signed letter saying otherwise.

In fairness I don't think that was the only mistake/misunderstanding that has been posted in the thread + the timeline has been clarified and corrected.

As regards "culture wars", from content of your posts would I be right in saying you do have a general bone (how large?) to pick with the EU which colours your opinion (same as I've tended to defend how they've handled this)?

If that is true, you're a participant to an extent like the rest of us.

McFly85 · 28-01-2021 05:34PM

Melanchthon wrote: »

Well looks like the argument that if EU are wanting the contract published and Astra Zeneca don't, means that Astra's contract probably doesn't say what the CEO said it did is gone.

https://finance.yahoo.com/finance/news/astrazeneca-prepared-publish-eu-vaccine-145151161.html?guccounter=1

It says they are meeting with the EU to agree which areas to black out, so half the document could be redacted.

28-01-2021 05:40PM

Probes wrote: »

It seems pretty clear to me that if AstraZeneca are fulfilling orders elsewhere, and are also transporting vaccine out of the EU, then they aren't providing their best effort. I can't see how they are in the right at all here, despite the EU's treacle like pace in approving it.

Are they exporting vaccines out of the Eu?

SII in India are producing the AZ vaccine and are supplying South Africa

CIARAN_BOYLE · 28-01-2021 05:42PM

Bit cynical wrote: »

I think the assumption here is that the export contracts are pretty much the same as AZ's contract with the EU. However, the contracts upon which they are exporting may not have the same degree of leeway as their contract with the EU. Therefore best efforts in fulfilling the EU contract may involve these exports outside the EU. None of the contracts have been made public so we can't assume anything yet.

Unless other contracts details are specified in the EU contract they don't come into it.

Best effort is between AZ and EU unless the contract says, recognising that AZ has supply the UK with xxx doses AZ will make best effort to supply thr eu.

Donald Trump · 28-01-2021 05:46PM

Aegir wrote: »

Are they exporting vaccines out of the Eu?

SII in India are producing the AZ vaccine and are supplying South Africa

India isn't actually in the EU. Just thought someone should let you know.

I know the Brexiteers seemed to think that it is because they liked to point the finger at the EU and blame them for all the brown people over there, but Indian people in the UK had more to do with a legacy of colonialism than anything else.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 28-01-2021 05:47PM

Aegir wrote: »

Are they exporting vaccines out of the Eu?

SII in India are producing the AZ vaccine and are supplying South Africa

UK got their initial doses from eu plants. At least 4 million doses.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/business/health-pharma/supply-of-covid-vaccine-doses-held-up-by-manufacturing-delays-1.4430676%3fmode=amp

According to the EC officials the contract stipulates that the EU vaccine will come from EU and the UK plants. Obviously UK are getting a lot of doses from the UK plants.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.france24.com/en/europe/20210127-eu-seeks-access-to-astrazeneca-s-covid-19-vaccines-produced-at-uk-plants

Supposedly we aren't getting anything from UK plants now.

Mullaghteelin · 28-01-2021 05:48PM

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

How is it clutching at straws. One side hadn’t agreed to have they! Probably because of the damage breaking an NDA would do to any business.

This thread needs renaming to ‘what’s going on with AZ, how dare they go against our dearest buddies the EU, they should do whatever they’re told cos they’re out bestest friends in the whole wide world and couldn’t possibly have made a booboo and got something wrong because they’re just perfect in every way!

Too many people seem happy to not ask any questions and just take it as gospel that the EU are right and have handled this in the best way for the safety of its people.

A sorry state of affairs of blindly following!

It’s not anti-EU to ask questions and hold them to account, and just because some people say it is doesn’t make it true. But I guess if you’re happy blimey following them from afar then so be it.

Moreover, anyone raising questions about the EU's culpability is accused of being a Tory-loving Brexit cheerleader. You're not a allowed to take a neutral, critical stance. To question the EU is to go against the green jersey "we're all in this together" mantra that our government and media have been pushing.

What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

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