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Covid 19 Part XXXI-187,554 ROI (2,970 deaths) 100,319 NI (1,730 deaths)(24/01)Read OP

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  • #8132
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,656 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Arghus wrote: »
    That prediction was in a letter to the Minister for Health. Would you prefer that he wasn't keeping the Minister for Health informed of this?

    It isn't scaremongering     either, there's been over 500 deaths so far in January.

    I don't really see how a person can have any issue with the CMO relaying factually accurate information     to the relevant Government Minister about an ongoing public health crisis.

    ...........maybe because the morale and the mood of the country is on the floor right now? Maybe an awful lot of people are now grappling with depression. Maybe the citizens of Ireland need some positive affirmation and appreciation of the huge efforts and huge sacrifices they are making for the greater good. Maybe the personal price people are paying needs to be acknowledged?



    Friends and family I am speaking to now... who last year were dealing with things in their stride, who last year were positive and upbeat.... are no longer so.
    Those WhatsApp groups are far quieter these days. I have 7 siblings and have had to actively ring to see if they are doing ok..... nobody is responding to texts. They are all in their early fifties to mid sixties. None of them are ok! Likewise most friends .


  • #8133
    manofwisdom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,119 ✭✭✭manofwisdom


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    Well seeing as it was nearly 3900 this day last week that's not exaclty a plateau.

    Downward trends aren't plateaus either

    Its a little slower to drop than many would like but dropping nonetheless

    plateau seems to be the new buzz word for those that are trying to talk down the progress made.

    7-day average was over 5000 cases a day last Thursday it should be about 2700 tonight.


  • #8134
    Arghus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,214 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    Deleted User wrote: »
    ...........maybe because the morale and the mood of the country is on the floor right now? Maybe an awful lot of people are now grappling with depression. Maybe the citizens of Ireland need some positive affirmation and appreciation of the huge efforts and huge sacrifices they are making for the greater good. Maybe the personal price people are paying needs to be acknowledged?



    Friends and family I am speaking to now... who last year were dealing with things in their stride, who last year were positive and upbeat.... are no longer so.
    Those WhatsApp groups are far quieter these days. I have 7 siblings and have had to actively ring to see if they are doing ok..... nobody is responding to texts. They are all in their early fifties to mid sixties. None of them are ok! Likewise most friends .

    OK.

    What has any of that got to to do with the contents of a letter from the CMO to the Minister for Health?


  • #8135
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Friends and family I am speaking to now... who last year were dealing with things in their stride, who last year were positive and upbeat.... are no longer so.
    Those WhatsApp groups are far quieter these days. I have 7 siblings and have had to actively ring to see if they are doing ok..... nobody is responding to texts. They are all in their early fifties to mid sixties. None of them are ok. Likewise with most friends .
    I don't disagree that this is the case, anecdotally I'm seeing the same thing.

    But it's probably a confluence of factors
    - Everyone is at home, doing nothing, therefore no news to report
    - Weather is crap, people aren't going out
    - Schools closed, nothing to even report on the kids
    - Complete fatigue of WhatsApp and whatever else from the last 12 months
    - The infection situation is still extremely grave and people are correctly worried about it

    While you'll see me shouting the loudest about the media constantly doom mongering, I also don't think anything needs to be sugarcoated.

    We are most likely going to have registered at least 1,000 deaths by the end of the month. The situation is improving, but that sting in the tail is coming, and it's better that we know it's coming.

    If you want to blame someone for not being uplifting, blame the media. The data is there, NPHET have been reporting the improvements at every briefing, but the media are choosing to ignore it and report on the most pessimistic interpretations of the data.


  • #8136
    Turtwig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    ...........maybe because the morale and the mood of the country is on the floor right now? Maybe an awful lot of people are now grappling with depression. Maybe the citizens of Ireland need some positive affirmation and appreciation of the huge efforts and huge sacrifices they are making for the greater good. Maybe the personal price people are paying needs to be acknowledged?



    Friends and family I am speaking to now... who last year were dealing with things in their stride, who last year were positive and upbeat.... are no longer so.
    Those WhatsApp groups are far quieter these days. I have 7 siblings and have had to actively ring to see if they are doing ok..... nobody is responding to texts. They are all in their early fifties to mid sixties. None of them are ok! Likewise most friends .

    Would you prefer the CMO made up the facts for policymakers to base their decisions off?

    Fwiw, In pretty much every one of his letters I've read there's pretty much a paragraph every time praising the Irish people for their effort and the enormous sacrifices being made by various demographics. Some of the hard hit groups that barely even get media coverage.


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  • #8137
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Plateau

    If you say that an activity or process has reached a plateau, you mean that it has reached a stage where there is no further change or development.

    Might be helpful


  • #8138
    Arghus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,214 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    Turtwig wrote: »
    Would you prefer the CMO made up the facts for which policymakers base their decisions on?

    Fwiw, In pretty much every one of his letters I've read there's pretty much a paragraph every time praising the Irish people for their effort and the enormous sacrifices being made by various demographics. Some of the hard hit groups that barely even get media coverage.

    They mention the huge sacrifices made by the public constantly.

    Seriously, in the briefing coming this evening it'll be brought up multiple times. As it has been all along.


  • #8139
    landofthetree
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,464 ✭✭✭landofthetree


    https://twitter.com/RiochtConor2/status/1352280840462594048


  • #8140
    political analyst
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭political analyst


    https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0121/1191199-mandatory-quarantine/

    Varadkar said the 3 main reasons for opposing mandatory quarantine were that it is "disproportionate", because positive Covid-19 cases within the State were not quarantined; the EU's stringent rules on the freedom of movement; and the fact that Ireland cannot control its border, i.e. with Northern Ireland, in the same way that other island states can.

    Has he forgotten that Ireland is not in the Schengen Area? If he wants to slow the spread of the virus then he has a funny way of showing it.


  • #8141
    Eod100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,178 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    ''EU could ban travellers from Britain to contain Covid variants''

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/21/eu-could-ban-travellers-from-britain-to-contain-covid-variants?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_b-gdnnews&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1611222578


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  • #8142
    Arghus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,214 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    You have to laugh.

    Not proportionate or workable?

    Obviously shuttering whole sections of society for indefinite period of time is far easier then.

    The same lad who when asked why it wasn't been done in April said "tourism."


  • #8143
    titan18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,052 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    I did laugh at the

    disproportionate", because positive Covid-19 cases within the State were not quarantined

    When we have the 5k limit here and travellers in do not have that in effect.


  • #8144
    Cluedo Monopoly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,468 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    bennyl10 wrote: »
    with a respiratory virus that's rampant and loves congregation, you genuinely think people should be marching in large groups?

    Considering what we've seen happen over the past 6 weeks?

    Or does that not actually matter once the government are getting a shoeing?

    I never said people should protest but I knew I would be accused of that ;) Such a tetchy thread.

    I said Irish people don't protest and won't protest in any fashion. I was responding to a poster who said Irish people should be protesting about some aspects of the government response. I am not sure he gave a timeline or an appropriate level to do so. I wont be protesting myself.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • #8145
    Eod100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,178 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    Arghus wrote: »
    You have to laugh.

    Not proportionate or workable?

    Obviously shuttering whole sections of society for indefinite period of time is far easier then.

    The same lad who when asked why it wasn't been done in April said "tourism."

    The excuses have been farcical tbh. Not enough hotel rooms while hotels were undercapacity with barely anyone travelling was another one.

    Same parties in government have had no issues keeping asylum seekers in centres for years on end but they draw the line at someone spending 2 weeks in a hotel. Complete joke tbh


  • #8146
    ginoginelli
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭ginoginelli


    josip wrote: »
    Travel abroad?
    That accounts for only 1% of cases.
    https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/summary/

    And hospitality and schools are at similarly low levels with our non existent tracing system.

    Get your head out of the sand.


  • #8147
    Arghus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,214 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    Eod100 wrote: »
    The excuses have been farcical tbh. Not enough hotel rooms while hotels were undercapacity with barely anyone travelling was another one.

    Same parties in government have had no issues keeping asylum seekers in centres for years on end but they draw the line at someone spending 2 weeks in a hotel. Complete joke tbh

    Another long finger job from them.

    They'll probably end up doing it in the end, but not before telling us that they were following advice and that nobody had told them previously to do it.

    You'd think they'd have learned something from December, but unless their mistakes are frequently publicly pointed out to them, they just carry on.

    I understand that mandatory quarantine and such are logistically and legally complicated - but so is level 5 lockdown for the entire population and the government seems to have no qualms about that when the moment comes.


  • #8148
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    He's going to have to elaborate on his reasoning with this.

    I do get where he's coming from with the "workable" bit. There are so many moving variables in terms of incoming travellers; who should quarantine where and when and how you manage adherence to it.

    Most other countries; especially in the EU; aren't forcing people into hotels for two weeks. The likes of Oz and NZ have it easier in this regard; much easier to prove your residency status for incoming passengers. Any EU or UK passengers into Ireland will have no visas, may not even have proof of address, but may be resident here. So a different approach is needed.

    There is a halfway house here; use the passenger locators forms and set up dedicated teams to go around every single day to call to the addresses given, making sure that people are actually quarantining.

    Cross-border co-operation can work on this basis - if an incoming passenger in Belfast gives an address in the Republic, that info gets passed to the Gardai, and vice-versa for passengers landing in Dublin.


  • #8149
    Eod100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,178 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    Northern Ireland's restrictions extended until 5th March

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55704312?at_custom2=twitter&at_medium=custom7&at_custom3=BBC+News+NI&at_campaign=64&at_custom1=link&at_custom4=168EF696-5C02-11EB-B0E4-17554D484DA4


  • #8150
    Eod100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,178 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    Arghus wrote: »
    Another long finger job from them.

    They'll probably end up doing it in the end, but not before telling us that they were following advice and that nobody had told them previously to do it.

    You'd think they'd have learned something from December, but unless their mistakes are frequently publicly pointed out to them, they just carry on.

    I understand that mandatory quarantine and such are logistically and legally complicated - but so is level 5 lockdown for the entire population and the government seems to have no qualms about that when the moment comes.

    Now that NPHET have reinforced doing more, maybe it will give them more reason to but seems like they won't try it until UK will so it's probably a catch 22 awhile.


  • #8151
    Arghus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,214 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    seamus wrote: »
    He's going to have to elaborate on his reasoning with this.

    I do get where he's coming from with the "workable" bit. There are so many moving variables in terms of incoming travellers; who should quarantine where and when and how you manage adherence to it.

    Most other countries; especially in the EU; aren't forcing people into hotels for two weeks. The likes of Oz and NZ have it easier in this regard; much easier to prove your residency status for incoming passengers. Any EU or UK passengers into Ireland will have no visas, may not even have proof of address, but may be resident here. So a different approach is needed.

    There is a halfway house here; use the passenger locators forms and set up dedicated teams to go around every single day to call to the addresses given, making sure that people are actually quarantining.

    Cross-border co-operation can work on this basis - if an incoming passenger in Belfast gives an address in the Republic, that info gets passed to the Gardai, and vice-versa for passengers landing in Dublin.

    I get what you are saying.

    It isn't without difficulties. Obviously it would be hard to organise and implement.

    But, at the same time, if the actual will was there to do it, something would be done.

    As it stands, after ten months, we just have a piss-poor safety measure of "proof" of a negative test within 72 hours, which, even according to NPHET'S own reasoning, doesn't prove much - and we don't even know how rigorously this is being checked, if at all. And we all know there seems to be an extremely lassez faire attitude to post arrival checks etc, etc.

    It all smacks of: look we're doing something, leave us alone. Laziness and incompetence from the government in my view.


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  • #8152
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Arghus wrote: »
    Another long finger job from them.

    They'll probably end up doing it in the end, but not before telling us that they were following advice and that nobody had told them previously to do it.

    You'd think they'd have learned something from December, but unless their mistakes are frequently publicly pointed out to them, they just carry on.

    I understand that mandatory quarantine and such are logistically and legally complicated - but so is level 5 lockdown for the entire population and the government seems to have no qualms about that when the moment comes.
    It's not a long finger job it's a No, always has been from him. Very early on he said "it's not what we do". The constant control the travel narrative ignores the fact that it is behaviours within the community which are spreading this.


  • #8153
    y2k2020
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 64 ✭✭y2k2020


    Arghus wrote: »
    You have to laugh.

    Not proportionate or workable?

    Obviously shuttering whole sections of society for indefinite period of time is far easier then.

    The same lad who when asked why it wasn't been done in April said "tourism."

    Anything that requires hard work won't be done

    Pacific countries have work ethic, us westerners have none

    Which is why they are having concerts and laughing their heads off at us.

    We are a bunch of morons


  • #8154
    TonyMaloney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭TonyMaloney


    https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1352290684154339331?s=20


  • #8155
    Eod100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,178 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    A second clarification from a fairly short remark. You'd think these ministers didn't have any communications advisors

    https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1352291948388900865


  • #8156
    Gael23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,151 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    TonyMaloney wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1352290684154339331?s=20

    Sets precedent for Tony to advise the same, not good


  • #8157
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Gael23 wrote: »
    Sets precedent for Tony to advise the same, not good

    Suggestion in UK this afternoon that hospitality closure will last until May, despite the vaccination programme (though doesn't look like they will be tightening up on cafe takeout, as was feared)


  • #8158
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Eod100 wrote: »
    A second clarification from a fairly short remark. You'd think these ministers didn't have any communications advisors
    By the way Donnelly goes on, he either doesn't or he's paying his advisor too much.

    The irony here is that Donnelly is exactly the guy who would have gone mad at this and accused the MoH of being sloppy.


  • #8159
    Eod100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,178 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    is_that_so wrote: »
    It's not a long finger job it's a No, always has been from him. Very early on he said "it's not what we do". The constant control the travel narrative ignores the fact that it is behaviours within the community which are spreading this.

    Well when there's new variants I think trying to enforce quarantine as much as possible is sensible. It won't prevent current community cases but might prevent further importing of variants.


  • #8160
    MerlinSouthDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭MerlinSouthDub


    Our success at reducing case numbers has been highlighted in Germany as something they can learn from:

    "Ireland and Great Britain were able to lower the number of cases - despite winter and mutant. What Germany can learn from it."

    https://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/medizin/corona-was-deutschland-von-grossbritannien-und-irland-lernen-kann-a-7d8a99ff-8380-4c7c-9073-e0094ac22198


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  • #8161
    Eod100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,178 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    Gael23 wrote: »
    Sets precedent for Tony to advise the same, not good

    Ours is probably going to be extended until at least end of February anyway regardless of what NI do


This discussion has been closed.
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