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Covid 19 Part XXXI-187,554 ROI (2,970 deaths) 100,319 NI (1,730 deaths)(24/01)Read OP

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  • #7232
    majcos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭majcos


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    What we do know is what Paul Reid and the HSE have said.

    It’s upwards of 50% in Ireland.
    Based on a very limited time frame in some hospitals.


  • #7233
    Analogs daughter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15 ✭Analogs daughter


    Stheno wrote: »
    Do people wearing the CPAP masks have them on 24/7?

    Sorry if its a stupid question

    No. Can vary depending on their oxygen requirements. Most hypoxic patients with Covid would have Airvo - high flow oxygen - on near enough 24/7. It is a lot easier on the patient than having to use a mask like they would on CPAP.


  • #7234
    majcos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭majcos


    Analogs daughter wrote: »
    Define "many cases" and/or examples of this? I have seen first hand patients remain in hospital completely asymptomatic but family unable/unwilling to take them.
    I am referring to paid home help staff who have continued to deliver care to patients at home despite a confirmed Covid diagnosis. They obviously deserve to be prioritized for vaccination too. I don’t have statistics on it but it has been fairly standard after the first month or so for patients to be discharged when clinically well or not admitted in the first place if did not medically need to be once home help had access to PPE.

    Some family may be unable to take someone home who needs care if they are sick themselves. They may be unwilling to expose themselves or their contacts if not already exposed which is understandable especially if there is another high risk member of the family. On the flip side, families have wanted to take family members home even when they have not already been exposed themselves as they were afraid that otherwise they would be unable to see their loved one at all in the hospital and that they might even die alone.


  • #7235
    majcos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭majcos


    Stheno wrote: »
    Do people wearing the CPAP masks have them on 24/7?

    Sorry if its a stupid question
    Not a stupid question. People may be able to tolerate breaks for comfort and to eat, some patients more so than others depending on how low their oxygen levels are.

    They might be put on basic nasal oxygen while taking a break from CPAP. There are also high flow nasal oxygen devices (e.g. Airvo) that can be used during breaks on CPAP or instead of CPAP but the use of Airvo has been limited/withheld in some hospitals due to strains on oxygen flow.


  • #7236
    Analogs daughter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15 ✭Analogs daughter


    majcos wrote: »
    I am referring to paid home help staff who have continued to deliver care to patients at home despite a confirmed Covid diagnosis. They obviously deserve to be prioritized for vaccination too. I don’t have statistics on it but it has been fairly standard after the first month or so for patients to be discharged when clinically well or not admitted in the first place if did not medically need to be once home help had access to PPE.

    Some family may be unable to take someone home who needs care if they are sick themselves. They may be unwilling to expose themselves or their contacts if not already exposed which is understandable especially if there is another high risk member of the family. On the flip side, families have wanted to take family members home even when they have not already been exposed themselves as they were afraid that otherwise they would be unable to see their loved one at all in the hospital and that they might even die alone.

    So I'm referring to the almost 1700 patients in hospital not requiring supplemental oxygen. A substantial number are newly diagnosed with Covid but are asymptomatic ie within 14 days of picking up the virus. In these cases families are understandably reluctant to bring them home.

    You also have the situation where a lot of community home help services are greatly diminished due to positive cases or carers being close contacts. This skews the true number of inpatients being treated for Covid.


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  • #7237
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    majcos wrote: »
    Not a stupid question. People may be able to tolerate breaks for comfort and to eat, some patients more so than others depending on how low their oxygen levels are.

    They might be put on basic nasal oxygen while taking a break from CPAP. There are also high flow nasal oxygen devices (e.g. Airvo) that can be used during breaks on CPAP or instead of CPAP but the use of Airvo has been limited/withheld in some hospitals due to strains on oxygen flow.

    Does CPAP use a lower volume of oxygen than Airvo?


  • #7238
    majcos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭majcos


    Analogs daughter wrote: »
    So I'm referring to the almost 1700 patients in hospital not requiring supplemental oxygen. A substantial number are newly diagnosed with Covid but are asymptomatic ie within 14 days of picking up the virus. In these cases families are understandably reluctant to bring them home.

    You also have the situation where a lot of community home help services are greatly diminished due to positive cases or carers being close contacts. This skews the true number of inpatients being treated for Covid.

    There are not 1700 patients in hospital not requiring oxygen. 200 odd in ICU and 200 odd are on CPAP/NIV but there are also patients on various percentages of oxygen through Venturi masks and nasal prongs. Others are on IV antibiotics or IV fluids or have delirium and so are not suitable for discharge even if home help was available. You’re right some could be at home if home help was available but many do have home help and/or families who are willing to take them home if they are asymptomatic or just mildly symptomatic.

    There are shortages of staff in all areas but if those patients are still in hospital and if still within the infectious period, then they are still there because of Covid even is that is because Covid is impacting their access to their usual care rather than because they need oxygen. They still need to be looked after and take up hospital resources. They still count as part of the workload on the hospitals managing Covid. Step down facilities could be considered but it would be easier to staff additional home care packages and less costly to do so than staffing step down facilities.


  • #7239
    majcos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭majcos


    Stheno wrote: »
    Does CPAP use a lower volume of oxygen than Airvo?
    Either can be used to deliver an adjustable percentage of oxygen but more oxygen is wasted through Airvo than CPAP as far as I know which is why CPAP is used in preference when there is a concern about oxygen flow/supply in a hospital.


  • #7240
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    majcos wrote: »
    Either can be used to deliver an adjustable percentage of oxygen but more oxygen is wasted through Airvo than CPAP as far as I know which is why CPAP is used in preference when there is a concern about oxygen flow/supply in a hospital.

    Thanks for taking the time. I got wondering how those on CPAP communicated or ate if they were well enough

    What are the Helmets Italy used called, if you know?


  • #7241
    Datacore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 178 ✭✭Datacore


    I notice the 6500 healthcare staff absent due to illness is now getting international coverage:

    Radio France:

    https://twitter.com/rfi/status/1351376602882428935?s=21

    There are also various inaccurate rants by National Front MPs about how we are in the Schengen zone (we’re not) and should be immediately cut off from all access to France etc etc

    Sebastien Chenu MP, speaking on BFM-TV, a major French news channel.

    I’m not posting the link as I won’t give that party publicity.

    “ « Les cas de virus variant explosent en Irlande. Et les Irlandais peuvent venir sans aucun contrôles dans notre pays parce qu’ils font partie de la zone Schengen. Pourquoi ne maîtrise-t’on pas notre frontière ? Au nom de quoi n’avons nous pas le droit de nous protéger ? »”

    “Variant virus cases are exploding in Ireland. And the Irish can come to our country without any checks because they are part of the Schengen zone. Why don't we control our border? In the name of what do we not have the right to protect ourselves? "

    So basically are now ammunition for Frexiteers & French equivalent of MAGA supporters.

    Also we’re being blamed for introducing the U.K. variant to Morocco apparently as someone who was in Ireland arrived with it to France and traveled onwards to Morocco by ferry.


    https://twitter.com/le360fr/status/1351294129507094540?s=21

    So basically this outbreak seems to be playing extremely badly for the image of Ireland in the French speaking world.

    Biggest risk is we might lose freight access for Ro-Ro ferries, which would be a total mess given the Brexit situation. Fairly likely they’ll impose conditions on drivers to pass COVID tests etc.

    Well done Xmas partying people. We now have the same reputation as Typhoid Mary.


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  • #7242
    Happydays2020
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    Datacore wrote: »
    I notice the 6500 healthcare staff absent due to illness is now getting international coverage:

    Radio France:

    https://twitter.com/rfi/status/1351376602882428935?s=21

    There are also various inaccurate rants by National Front MPs about how we are in the Schengen zone (we’re not) and should be immediately cut off from all access to France etc etc

    Sebastien Chenu MP, speaking on BFM-TV, a major French news channel.

    I’m not posting the link as I won’t give that party publicity.

    “ « Les cas de virus variant explosent en Irlande. Et les Irlandais peuvent venir sans aucun contrôles dans notre pays parce qu’ils font partie de la zone Schengen. Pourquoi ne maîtrise-t’on pas notre frontière ? Au nom de quoi n’avons nous pas le droit de nous protéger ? »”

    “Variant virus cases are exploding in Ireland. And the Irish can come to our country without any checks because they are part of the Schengen zone. Why don't we control our border? In the name of what do we not have the right to protect ourselves? "

    So basically are now ammunition for Frexiteers & French equivalent of MAGA supporters.

    Also we’re being blamed for introducing the U.K. variant to Morocco apparently as someone who was in Ireland arrived with it to France and traveled onwards to Morocco by ferry.


    https://twitter.com/le360fr/status/1351294129507094540?s=21

    So basically this outbreak seems to be playing extremely badly for the image of Ireland in the French speaking world.

    Biggest risk is we might lose freight access for Ro-Ro ferries, which would be a total mess given the Brexit situation. Fairly likely they’ll impose conditions on drivers to pass COVID tests etc.

    Well done Xmas partying people. We now have the same reputation as Typhoid Mary.

    We have had less cases and deaths overall than France but the overblown narrative and comments are now coming home to roost.

    Look at how the 5 day, 7 day and 14 day averages are used to maximum effect by the CMO and commentators as a means to emphasise to the Irish people that we are the worst in the EU. We had a very sharp high which is now rapidly reducing due to the efforts of people.


  • #7243
    Datacore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 178 ✭✭Datacore


    Well the only time we will be mentioned is at the peak. There’ll be no coverage of the recovery, so plague island reputation is likely to hang around for a long time. We’re also now just lumped in with the British and the Americans in discussions about incompetent management of the situation.

    It’s not coming from our narrative. It’s the fact that we had huge elevation in case numbers and that’s assumed by a lot of commentators to be because of the British variant.

    We were pinging on all sorts of charts when the numbers shot upwards.

    We just will be ignored on the way back down again.

    I’ve literally had Americans calling up asking me what the hell happened and if I was still ok.


  • #7244
    Happydays2020
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    Datacore wrote: »
    Well the only time we will be mentioned is at the peak. There’ll be no coverage of the recovery, so plague island reputation is likely to hang around for a long time. We’re also now just lumped in with the British and the Americans in discussions about incompetent management of the situation.

    The news cycle will change pretty quickly unless your friends keep on exaggerating the situation. We cannot reverse what happened, we can change the narrative.

    We do not need our CMO to overall blow things with his language (significant proportion of deaths etc.) not to mention the Irish Times peddling crap about people catching it in supermarkets.

    When this is all said and done, we will probably end up with a mortality rate about half of what France has had per head of population.


  • #7245
    Datacore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 178 ✭✭Datacore


    The worrying bit about the narrative in France is the far right commentary demanding closure of access via ports. We’ve just had to divert huge amounts of roll on roll off ferry traffic for essential freight through France.

    They’re not somewhere unknown for knee jerk responses like closing ports.

    It’s just something I hope the government here is at least slightly aware of.

    If were cut off from both the continent and British ports are a mess due to Brexit, we would have serious logistical problems.


  • #7246
    Happydays2020
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    Datacore wrote: »
    The worrying bit about the narrative in France is the far right commentary demanding closure of access via ports. We’ve just had to divert huge amounts of roll on roll off ferry traffic for essential freight through France.

    They’re not somewhere unknown for knee jerk responses like closing ports.

    It’s just something I hope the government here is at least slightly aware of.

    If were cut off from both the continent and British ports are a mess due to Brexit, we would have serious logistical problems.

    Our Government are well aware of this risk based on discussions over last few days on the media.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/state-plans-covid-19-testing-for-lorry-drivers-on-ferries-to-france-1.4461053

    Our numbers looked worse because of the reporting fiasco over Christmas. It was bad but has been now been shown to be manageable as soon as the lockdown came in. By the end of the month daily cases will be below 1000 and we will be back to 300 cases per day in one month’s time and indeed will be green before France.

    The narrative needs to be clear that we need to be all in this together. Vaccines are coming. Things will open up come the spring but first we have to ensure that our most vulnerable are protected and the health system protected.


  • #7247
    Datacore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 178 ✭✭Datacore


    The biggest issue in France is the paranoia about vaccines over there. In surveys only 40% said they’d accept a vaccine. So if anything, by the middle of summer, the narrative may well be reversed.

    “Under a third of people aged 18-49 said they intended to receive a coronavirus jab, compared with 61% of people over the age of 65.

    The study for Public Health France also showed in December that just 29% of women in France said they intended to get a COVID-19 vaccination, compared with 53% of men.”

    https://www.euronews.com/2021/01/18/why-do-so-few-people-in-france-want-to-take-the-covid-19-vaccine

    Even amongst the elderly they’re not going to reach the vaccination levels for herd immunity.


  • #7248
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Datacore wrote: »
    I notice the 6500 healthcare staff absent due to illness is now getting international coverage:

    Radio France:

    https://twitter.com/rfi/status/1351376602882428935?s=21

    There are also various inaccurate rants by National Front MPs about how we are in the Schengen zone (we’re not) and should be immediately cut off from all access to France etc etc

    Sebastien Chenu MP, speaking on BFM-TV, a major French news channel.

    I’m not posting the link as I won’t give that party publicity.

    “ « Les cas de virus variant explosent en Irlande. Et les Irlandais peuvent venir sans aucun contrôles dans notre pays parce qu’ils font partie de la zone Schengen. Pourquoi ne maîtrise-t’on pas notre frontière ? Au nom de quoi n’avons nous pas le droit de nous protéger ? »”

    “Variant virus cases are exploding in Ireland. And the Irish can come to our country without any checks because they are part of the Schengen zone. Why don't we control our border? In the name of what do we not have the right to protect ourselves? "

    So basically are now ammunition for Frexiteers & French equivalent of MAGA supporters.

    Also we’re being blamed for introducing the U.K. variant to Morocco apparently as someone who was in Ireland arrived with it to France and traveled onwards to Morocco by ferry.


    https://twitter.com/le360fr/status/1351294129507094540?s=21

    So basically this outbreak seems to be playing extremely badly for the image of Ireland in the French speaking world.

    Biggest risk is we might lose freight access for Ro-Ro ferries, which would be a total mess given the Brexit situation. Fairly likely they’ll impose conditions on drivers to pass COVID tests etc.

    Well done Xmas partying people. We now have the same reputation as Typhoid Mary.

    I presume newspapers are now full of articles decrying and laughing at Portugal given their 7 day rate is now 50% higher than our?

    Or maybe people would have a bit of maturity and stop feeling the need to seek validation or self flagellation in constantly looking to see what others have to say about us


  • #7249
    fits
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,058 ✭✭✭✭fits


    Awfully sad. I can’t believe one hospital ( London) would have 130 patients in ICU. Unreal.

    The grandmother below was only 64

    https://twitter.com/bbcnews/status/1351404330184810499?s=21


  • #7250
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,647 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    What we do know is what Paul Reid and the HSE have said.

    It’s upwards of 50% in Ireland.

    Yawn. Yet again. Somebody with an "agenda" misrepresenting facts to suit their "open the pubs" feelings.


  • #7251
    Happydays2020
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Yawn. Yet again. Somebody with an "agenda" misrepresenting facts to suit their "open the pubs" feelings.

    Probably best that pubs stay closed until June at the earliest. And that will need to be shut out some restrictions for a few months.

    This is what I think will happen:

    - schools early Feb
    - construction mid Feb
    - click and collect end Feb
    - non essential retail mid to end March
    - outdoor hospitality - after Easter.
    - two households mixing outside - after Easter.


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  • #7252
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The idea that seems to come up every now and then that other countries are laughing at us (whether it be for case numbers, levels of restrictions, vaccine rollouts etc.) has always been utterly ludicrous.

    We're a tiny country, other Europeans aren't going about their day wondering about how Ireland are getting on.


  • #7253
    pjohnson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,097 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Happydays2020 wrote: »
    Probably best that pubs stay closed until June at the earliest. And that will need to be shut out some restrictions for a few months.

    This is what I think will happen:

    - schools early Feb
    - construction mid Feb
    - click and collect end Feb
    - non essential retail mid to end March
    - outdoor hospitality - after Easter.
    - two households mixing outside - after Easter.

    With Norma in charge who knows. Completly out of her depth.


  • #7254
    titan18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,052 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    Happydays2020 wrote: »
    Probably best that pubs stay closed until June at the earliest. And that will need to be shut out some restrictions for a few months.

    This is what I think will happen:

    - schools early Feb
    - construction mid Feb
    - click and collect end Feb
    - non essential retail mid to end March
    - outdoor hospitality - after Easter.
    - two households mixing outside - after Easter.

    Would be handy, I think once we get sub 1000, we should be able to open or begin to open the first 3 and then maybe the non essential retail, gyms, hairdressers etc when we get sub 5-600.

    Personally, can't wait to get a proper haircut again. It's about 5 weeks now and getting a bit meh


  • #7255
    eigrod
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,028 ✭✭✭eigrod


    2,020 in hospitals at 8am yesterday morning, 1,911 at 8pm last night, gone up to 1,954 at 8am this morning. Peaked yesterday morning ? Hopefully discharges will exceed admissions over the next while and this number will go down at a reasonable pace.


  • #7256
    Sofa King Great
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 872 ✭✭✭Sofa King Great


    Happydays2020 wrote: »
    Probably best that pubs stay closed until June at the earliest. And that will need to be shut out some restrictions for a few months.

    This is what I think will happen:

    - schools early Feb
    - construction mid Feb
    - click and collect end Feb
    - non essential retail mid to end March
    - outdoor hospitality - after Easter.
    - two households mixing outside - after Easter.

    I think the timelines there are probably close to being correct - however I dont see schools opening before construction.

    You have construction heavily lobbying to open up and making the case that it is safe and in the other hand you have teachers unions lobbying to stay closed and asserting that it isn't safe.

    It will come down to lobbying and pressure as always


  • #7257
    Eod100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,182 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    https://twitter.com/DonnellyStephen/status/1351461941097754625?s=19


  • #7258
    Sweet.Science
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭Sweet.Science


    Happydays2020 wrote: »
    Probably best that pubs stay closed until June at the earliest. And that will need to be shut out some restrictions for a few months.

    This is what I think will happen:

    - schools early Feb
    - construction mid Feb
    - click and collect end Feb
    - non essential retail mid to end March
    - outdoor hospitality - after Easter.
    - two households mixing outside - after Easter.


    With cases coming down and vaccines going up i think that is overly cautious


  • #7259
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    eigrod wrote: »
    2,020 in hospitals at 8am yesterday morning, 1,911 at 8pm last night, gone up to 1,954 at 8am this morning. Peaked yesterday morning ? Hopefully discharges will exceed admissions over the next while and this number will go down at a reasonable pace.
    Based on past data, admissions tend to be highest at the start of the week, while discharges tend to be lowest at the start of the week and increase steadily to Friday.
    So hopefully that holds this week and we see some solid progress.
    Sweet.Science wrote: »
    With cases coming down and vaccines going up i think that is overly cautious
    I think it sounds reasonable. We'll have a decent chunk vaccinated by Easter, but it won't be comprehensive enough to say that things are safe. A surge like December could still see 2,000+ in hospital again even with vaccinations.

    Households meeting up outside might be relaxed around March more than April, and we might get two households mixing towards the end of April. But they will absolutely wait until after Easter before giving any licence for looser socialising.

    Household mixing is the real tinder for the fire, and they were burned too badly at Xmas to rush this. IMHO.


  • #7260
    tom1ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,100 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    titan18 wrote: »
    Would be handy, I think once we get sub 1000, we should be able to open or begin to open the first 3 and then maybe the non essential retail, gyms, hairdressers etc when we get sub 5-600.

    Personally, can't wait to get a proper haircut again. It's about 5 weeks now and getting a bit meh

    Don’t think schools will open with 1000 cases a day tbh. Unions will kick up.
    When the more virulent strains that effect children more than this current strain land I don’t think I’d want my kids in school anyway.


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  • #7261
    eviltimeban
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭eviltimeban


    Eod100 wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/DonnellyStephen/status/1351461941097754625?s=19

    Positive. A good number to see will be when the number vaccinated has exceeded the total number of cases we've had.

    Whatever the number, I look at it as 94,000 people who won't get Covid.


This discussion has been closed.
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