Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

khalessi wrote: »

This one is only 3 days old

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-55635634
Covid: What's the science when it comes to schools?

Discusses what is going on in Wales school closures


https://www.tes.com/news/exclusive-coronavirus-schools-teacher-covid-rates-333-above-average
Study done on teachers in UK published date 5th January

Exclusive: Teacher Covid rates up to 333% above average

The NASUWT data shows that the prevalence rate was, on average, 1089.5 for primary staff and 1750.5 for secondary staff, compared with 404.3 for the local authority as a whole. This average was taken for a period spanning from the week ending 19 October to the week ending 20 November.

The data used was for that study is highly questionable. The figures used are from self reported cases of staff rather than a positive PCR test, but positive tests are used for community figures.

Also says "Now it might be tempting to think that children are spreading it in schools," she said.

"But when we break down the data we find that actually schools are safe, secure environments for children."

So which is it safe or nah, seems to be conflicting information.

km79 wrote: »

Thanks TTLF for an excellent and really insightful post.
These are indeed very hard times for all students. My own son started university last year . He is in second year now and I really feel like he has missed out on the college experience . He has basically completed half of first year and all of second year in his room. I think universities could have done a little bit more to accommodate students. The library wasn’t even available throughout. But that’s another story .

Anyways keep working and mind yourself . This will pass . L Certs will most certainly be back to school by mid term at the very latest. And then a normal college experience awaits you !

One can hope! My friend who was in the graduating class of 2020 spent the riveting first year of her interior designing course in bed watching class from zoom!

carr62 wrote: »

Thank you TTLF for your post letting us know how things are for you. It was really well written, and seems like you are quite well prepared for the exams. Please don't think that I am underestimating how difficult this time is for you though. These are really tough times. My daughter is in 6th year now but only had one lesson a day on zoom throughout last years lockdown. Her school is much better organized now, but she is nowhere near where she needs to be. On top of that add in that we have very poor internet signal, and she had only her phone to study from in 5th year it's just one obstacle after another. It seems like you have a good device and your school seem to be really on top of things so that's great. For us, however, we are hoping that predicted grades will be made an option. She is just too far behind with her course to be able to make a decent attempt at the exam. Would you prefer to sit the Leaving Cert? There might not be a choice anyway, but I'm not sure my daughter will sit it if there's no other option, as she is already very stressed. It sounds to me that you are very well prepared, please don't fret too much about it. I'm sure you will do very well. Mind yourself, keep talking to your friends, eat and sleep well and take what exercise you can. Good luck!

I'm sorry to hear about your daughters experience, I have to agree it really is a tough time for the LC class, because the government didn't think much of what was going to happen to us this year after the last lockdown and we've been forgotten. I will hopefully do okay in my LC, but I tend to forget information sometimes so I need to keep revising which I find harder to do. My advice is to make sure your daughter is okay. Bad internet connection must be a real struggle for some. I'm lucky I have very good quality but that isn't the case for many in places like Mayo, Donegal and other western counties.

Do I want predictive grading? I'm not too sure honestly, We're behind in course work still, I haven't finished most of my courses, and I need to focus on the work I can do at home, although that's easier said than done of course. I'm up in the air with my Geography Field study, I'm trying my best to not let it consume me but honestly, pushing for traditional exams on a year that has missed more education time than the previous year isn't an okay thing to do. This is why I never really understood governments, there's some huge achievement in their mind that "if they got the LC through a pandemic, the worlds saved." But they don't have to sit the exams, do they? It never really effects them. Although I'm not educated enough in politics to given a definitive answer there, just felt illogical to me personally.

Drumpot wrote: »

Why do we have to still debate schools role in this? Our government have stressed how important schools are to keep open, but they seem to feel they aren’t important enough to have clear, unbiased data that clearly shows why “schools are safe” as they say. The burden/responsibility is on our authority’s to clearly set out why schools are safe and link to the data that can be analysed and verified. I don’t believe they have done that and whenever they have been asked about schools I don’t find their responses satisfactory.

I’m still to see a rational explanation on why schools are safer then many many things that have been closed. Children do not spread it less. Lots of people in a small room for hours is bad. So schools are fine/safe because........

The one thing that was said over and over was that if levels in the community were low, then schools were safe. This was the mantra before reopening at the end of August.
Tony Holohan said yesterday that transmission levels are so high that there is a very high risk at the moment of getting Covid.
He said yesterday that everyone who can should work from home.
He said yesterday that this week was the week for everyone to stay at home, for employers to facilitate working from home.

In spite of this, Norma Foley decides schools are safe, end of, and that this is the week to get tens of thousands of school staff and pupils back on site.

carr62 wrote: »

Absolutely! I'm hearing that old chestnut "schools are safe", then I'm hearing " our health service is at surge capacity, stay at home" .......I didn't know much about Norma Foley before this, but I have to say that the more I hear from her the less I like. Even an uneducated parent like myself knows that when asymptomatic contacts are not being tested, and all contacts not being traced, we will have WAY more of this in our community than is being recorded. I don't want my children back in school, and I completely back any teacher who doesn't feel safe going back. Personally I would like to see the schools stay closed until we are in a much better place with the virus. I want my daughter in Leaving Cert to be offered predicted grades. Now I'm assuming that teachers are against this idea due to the additional work involved and the position it would put them in? I wonder could the government not look in to a better way of organising the grades that might be acceptable to teachers? (Apologies as I really am ignorant of these things)

I'm not a secondary teacher but I'm assuming it would be hard for secondary teachers to fairly assess the students. Last time around they had one and a half years of class tests, Christmas exams and possibly mocks to go by. I know they've been teaching this crew too but I presume there's less data to go by?

Secondary teachers feel free to correct me

carr62 wrote: »

Absolutely! I'm hearing that old chestnut "schools are safe", then I'm hearing " our health service is at surge capacity, stay at home" .......I didn't know much about Norma Foley before this, but I have to say that the more I hear from her the less I like. Even an uneducated parent like myself knows that when asymptomatic contacts are not being tested, and all contacts not being traced, we will have WAY more of this in our community than is being recorded. I don't want my children back in school, and I completely back any teacher who doesn't feel safe going back. Personally I would like to see the schools stay closed until we are in a much better place with the virus. I want my daughter in Leaving Cert to be offered predicted grades. Now I'm assuming that teachers are against this idea due to the additional work involved and the position it would put them in? I wonder could the government not look in to a better way of organising the grades that might be acceptable to teachers? (Apologies as I really am ignorant of these things)

The idea of possibly going back in early February haunts me a little. Sure, it's on a phased basis, but even with schools having some sense of Covid guidelines, it's hard to really properly facilitate a community such as a school, regardless they'll always be seen as less controlled environments. Covid wasn't widespread in schools from September-November, mainly because of measures put in place, but also because the spread of Covid was relatively low compared to how it's become now. It would be a lie to try compare November to now, for a few reasons, such as the new strains, which transmit easier to (debatably) younger groups, the amount of transmission in the community present compared to November, and the idea of something strange occurring with many many hospitalisations and people being admitted to ICU (taking into account the brief timelag.)

Because of this, the golden "phased basis" ticket doesn't work well for me, Even if only LC students are back, I am still in contact with 80+ pupils and friends everyday. Imagine if 6th years we able to go back and see their friends during this time, where over half the new cases on Ireland are from the last 2 week alone. Many students will think it's okay to go hang out with their friends, based off the assumption, "Well, I'm in school/class with them anyway, and I'm fine." Of course not everyone is like this, including myself, but it cannot be ruled out.

I knew of Norma Foley back in 2020 May when the last years LC was up in the air, I learnt a lot and I remember seeing one current 6th year poster have a panic attack on the thread at the time on how the LC won't be cancelled and will go ahead, he was eventually banned for his intolerable behaviour, but it did show me the stress he was going through which I didn't feel at the time as I was a 5th year, but now I am in his situation, and it has opened my eyes to the idea of the horrible pressure he was under, possibly worse for me since we're behind in course work etc.

There's ideas of amending the papers even more, but in my personal opinion, adding an extra poet to the choice I have on my English Paper 2 for over 4 months of work missed is the same as putting a small plaster over a cracked leaking drainpipe, it doesn't help. The media really seems to have caught onto the idea we've been and are being treated with little respect from Norma and I can understand that. MM and Norma are both teachers, they know the education system, but because of this they've forced themselves into the idea everything needs to go back to normal ASAP, with their No 1. goal being to keep children in education, but which would you rather have, your last few months of education? or the chance to get through a global pandemic without even needing a test or getting the virus before you're vaccinated? I think I know what I would choose.

I hope they come to a conclusion soon, and I hope it's safe and fair to many students, I don't mind what happens personally, but clarity on what we can do is needed, I'd probably go for predictive/Continuous assessment personally because I work better that way then a test to "prove it all" but that's just my opinion, and it won't influence the decision made at the end of the day, I make very little impact.

I hope all SNA's on this thread are doing okay, considering the issues as of late with how the return to school looks like it'll be in shambles... again. I shake my head in pity for those poor souls.

combat14 wrote: »

about 400 inside and outside icu getting ventilator/respitatory type supports

over 2000 now in hospital with covid issues

we all need to stay at home as requested, that means everyone

Covid adviser to the Irish College of General Practitioners, Dr Mary Favier, has warned that if people do not curtail their movements then restrictions will have to be kept in place until April or May.

“We are not doing enough, there is still too much movement,” she told Newstalk Breakfast.

Was this the same lady i heard on the news citing the UK variant has resulted in entire families being hospitalised for the first time, ye know young and old.

Im still amazed people are so keen to send their kids back to school even if they can, honestly, we know Norma couldnt care less how many get sick as long as she gets to play politics but honestly why put your family at risk if you dont really need to. I mean even a moron knows that because we arent properly testing and tracing at the moment that the current extreme numbers dont reflect accurately whats happening in our communities, numbers are way higher.

I can tell ye home schooling is a pain in the hole but eff it, at least my family are safe.

combat14 wrote: »

about 400 inside and outside icu getting ventilator/respitatory type supports

over 2000 now in hospital with covid issues

we all need to stay at home as requested, that means everyone

Covid adviser to the Irish College of General Practitioners, Dr Mary Favier, has warned that if people do not curtail their movements then restrictions will have to be kept in place until April or May.

“We are not doing enough, there is still too much movement,” she told Newstalk Breakfast.

Still too much movement but now is the time to mobilise tens of thousands more.
Do they not see that if they keep saying schools are safe, families feel well it’s safe for children to mix.
Where you have children mixing, there are going to be adults with them.
When you have more children back in schools, you have more employers putting pressure on people to be back in the office.
There’s subtle mixed messages that are making it a lot more difficult to get people to adhere to the instructions this time around.

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Case in point are the playgrounds. The two where I live are packed every time I walk by. They should be shut and out of bounds like last year. It's only a few weeks. Do bloody things right.

They just can't, every restriction we have has a work around to it

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Last year no one went near them.

Stronger decisions and restrictions where made last March, we are currently run by a bunch of spineless cowards imo

Local SEN school working on a 50% basis for school re-opening on Thursday.

Currently working out bus routes.


So looks like it's going ahead unless there's another announcement to keep closed.

E36Ross wrote: »

Local SEN school working on a 50% basis for school re-opening on Thursday.

Currently working out bus routes.


So looks like it's going ahead unless there's another announcement to keep closed.

Schools are planning based on what is out there at the moment. They have to. Can hardly wait until tomorrow.

Emergency meeting of the INTO CEC taking place right now. Watch this space.

The Wordress wrote: »

My own GP is not doing any face to face consultations for the next 3 weeks at a minimum. That says it all!

Yup my gp have seen him once in a year otherwise all online. Wonder will anyone call for them to be on pup:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Just tried to get on that webinar and it's at capacity!! FFS. Out of our team of 10, only one person got in.