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Woman assaulted at knifepoint in Dublin *MOD WARNING ADDED TO OP*

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13567…18

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    #62
    wiggle16
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭wiggle16


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    I dont know what they are, dont know why youre so race obsessed.

    Please :rolleyes:

    Don't know why you're trying to distance yourself from the "sentiment" in your first post. You know what you meant and so did everyone else. Why can't you come out and say it?


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    #63
    MarkY91
    Registered Users Posts: 7,067 ✭✭✭MarkY91


    How did I know they were 3 black teenagers the second I read it happened in balbriggan...

    Mod: Banned


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    #64
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,927 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    The vast majority of crime and almost all violent crime in Ireland is committed by the lower rungs of the socio economic ladder. The people we import from outside the EU are almost always in these low rungs so over represent in crime stats too. Its a losing game. Its not ‘punching down’ or any other crap, just calling out where the problem is

    So focus on the socio economic problems then, not the colour of their skin - that's just lazy scapegoating that never got any society anywhere.
    Do you really think announcing that they were black teens when these things happen is going to help matters? Of course it wont it will just divide people further and fuel hatred. Although you'd probably like that.


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    #65
    wiggle16
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭wiggle16


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    So focus on the socio economic problems then, not the colour of their skin - that's just lazy scapegoating that never got any society anywhere.
    Do you really think announcing that they were black teens when these things happen is going to help matters? Of course it wont it will just divide people further and fuel hatred. Although you'd probably like that.

    Exactly this.

    If you rear a bunch of kids in a ****hole then the likelihood is a number of them will act like they were reared in a ****hole - what colour they were to start out with makes no difference to that.


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    #66
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    That happened once. The vast majority of crime and almost all violent crime in Ireland is committed by the lower rungs of the socio economic ladder. The people we import from outside the EU are almost always in these low rungs so over represent in crime stats too. Its a losing game. Its not ‘punching down’ or any other crap, just calling out where the problem is

    What percentage of non EU immigrants are classified as in the lower socioeconomic class? And what do you think we should do about it?
    If we take people into the country, perhaps one idea might be to not just abandon them into a life on social welfare? that surely does no good for any member of society.

    Personally I would like to see incentives that encourage all people into work and education.


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    #67
    iebamm2580
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭iebamm2580


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    So focus on the socio economic problems then, not the colour of their skin - that's just lazy scapegoating that never got any society anywhere.
    Do you really think announcing that they were black teens when these things happen is going to help matters? Of course it wont it will just divide people further and fuel hatred. Although you'd probably like that.

    I agree its like announcing George nkencho as a black man shot by guards by many media and some public reps was done to create a divide.


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    #68
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    So focus on the socio economic problems then, not the colour of their skin - that's just lazy scapegoating that never got any society anywhere.
    Do you really think announcing that they were black teens when these things happen is going to help matters? Of course it wont it will just divide people further and fuel hatred. Although you'd probably like that.

    So focus on race when a black person is the victim of violence but focus on socio economic problems when a white person is the victim of violence?

    Sounds explicitly racist to me.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



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    #69
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,927 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    wiggle16 wrote: »
    Exactly this.

    If you rear a bunch of kids in a ****hole then the likelihood is a number of them will act like they were reared in a ****hole - what colour they were to start out with makes no difference to that.

    If you are worried then vote for parties that will not accept immigration from outside the EU. Set up your own party for this.
    But these kids are here now and there's no point in pointing fingers at them and saying "told you so" when they step out of line. That is just futile.


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    #70
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    bubblypop wrote: »
    What percentage of non EU immigrants are classified as in the lower socioeconomic class? And what do you think we should do about it?
    If we take people into the country, perhaps one idea might be to not just abandon them into a life on social welfare? that surely does no good for any member of society.

    Personally I would like to see incentives that encourage all people into work and education.

    African origan migrants have a 65%-82% rate of unemployment depending on country, don’t let them in is the best answer

    Mod: Banned


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    #71
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    I assume you're middle aged, or there or thereabouts, you wont be around for much longer, life is short. I suggest you just let it go and try appreciating what you have in life instead of worrying about ...

    Regardless of the general topic here, that's a ludicrous thing to say. People get to middle age and they stop worrying about the future, or the present, because they have one foot in the grave?

    Do you apply that to, say, climate change.


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    #72
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    bubblypop wrote: »
    What percentage of non EU immigrants are classified as in the lower socioeconomic class? And what do you think we should do about it?
    If we take people into the country, perhaps one idea might be to not just abandon them into a life on social welfare? that surely does no good for any member of society.

    Personally I would like to see incentives that encourage all people into work and education.

    I think that is a big problem, for a lot of people work has been dis-incentivised as they see mammy/daddy etc get by on the dole, nixers etc.

    We have created an environment where there very little accountability for welfare, and people are constantly told they are being wronged in some way by the man/the government/the white man/the immigrants etc, thus stopping being taking personal responsibility for anything.

    This breeds anger and contempt for the world


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    #73
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    African origan migrants have a 65%-82% rate of unemployment depending on country, don’t let them in is the best answer

    Didn't answer the question


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    #74
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    Three black teens attack a white woman with robbery not as the motive.

    Is this a race attack?

    If the roles were reversed and 3 white teens attacked a black woman without reason would it be treated differently in the media?

    Or god forbid, pushed into a canal


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    #75
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    You're just trying to twist things to suit whatever f*cked up agenda you have.
    If there's a clear racist attack on someone, report it that way.

    No you’re the one trying to hide the facts to suit whatever agenda you have.

    Truth doesn’t have an agenda.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



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    #76
    NaFirinne
    Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭NaFirinne


    The PC Culture, combined with welfare state, combined with the instilling of absolutely no morals, combined with Laws which are designed to protect the perpertrators rather then the victim and extremelly lenient sentencing and a culture of not giving a rats arse what happens to others.

    I think Ireland has mixed all these incredients together perfectly...it's like we are purposely trying to design the perfect class of person, along with the rest of our buddies in the western world.

    No one cares of the consequences unless it effects them. Thing is eventually it will effect all of us.


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    #77
    wiggle16
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭wiggle16


    bubblypop wrote: »
    What percentage of non EU immigrants are classified as in the lower socioeconomic class? And what do you think we should do about it?
    If we take people into the country, perhaps one idea might be to not just abandon them into a life on social welfare? that surely does no good for any member of society.

    Personally I would like to see incentives that encourage all people into work and education.

    Agreed.

    The immigration system in this country is flawed because it is unfair to everyone involved - it's frustrating for the officers; it means people genuinely seeking asylum and are fit to work are left sitting in direct provision for years; and, conversely, it means that people who for one reason or another do not have the right to remain in Ireland can spend up to 9 years appealing before finally being deported - that is not just wrong because of the waste of resources, it's wrong because it is unfair to allow a person to live and build a life in Ireland for the best part of a decade and then send them "back" to their country of origin, a country that may have completely changed in the meantime. That's not right either.

    But when Eric et al say that "immigration is a huge problem in this country" they're not talking about the above, they're talking about "letting in" the right "class" of immigrant.

    Or put more plainly, the right colour of immigrant.


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    #78
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,168 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Scum will be scum, irrespective of colour, race, religion etc.

    I think its irrelevant that these were teens, they were just criminals.
    You have to remember 99.99% of teens don't carry on like this, so thread title very misleading.


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    #79
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,104 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    So focus on the socio economic problems then, not the colour of their skin - that's just lazy scapegoating that never got any society anywhere.
    Sadly the problem is that in every single example of western multicultural nations colour of skin does inform both socioeconomic problems and crime stats and nowhere seems to have come up with any lasting solutions to this seemingly intractable problem.
    Do you really think announcing that they were black teens when these things happen is going to help matters? Of course it wont it will just divide people further and fuel hatred. Although you'd probably like that.
    Again sadly divisions already exist and tend to get worse not better and more concentrated over time. This happens in monocultural societies too of course. Those who do better tend to move away from lower socioeconomic urban areas and again the problems become more concentrated, generational and intractable. The difference being that it's harder for an obviously different demographic to do similar. A White person a couple of generations away from the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder is fully accepted into higher rungs, a Black person not nearly so much. And they well know and understand that too which fuels further divisions and quite understandably too.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #80
    iebamm2580
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭iebamm2580


    NIMAN wrote: »
    Scum will be scum, irrespective of colour, race, religion etc.

    I think its irrelevant that these were teens, they were just criminals.
    You have to remember 99.99% of teens don't carry on like this, so thread title very misleading.

    Tried to change it to some teens, have asked a mod.


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    #81
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Didn't answer the question

    The balkans, a satisfactory answer for any question you pose.


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    #82
    wiggle16
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭wiggle16


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    The balkans, a satisfactory answer for any question you pose.

    That is a disgraceful thing to bring up in comparison to this story.

    You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. None.


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    #83
    NaFirinne
    Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭NaFirinne


    NIMAN wrote: »
    Scum will be scum, irrespective of colour, race, religion etc.

    I think its irrelevant that these were teens, they were just criminals.
    You have to remember 99.99% of teens don't carry on like this, so thread title very misleading.




    I agree here that 99.99% of teens don't carry on like this.


    However the ones that do, get to cause so much trouble because the go completely unpunished and actually rewarded to do so.


    These in turn will use peer pressure to get other otherwise good teens to follow suit.


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    #84
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,104 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    wiggle16 wrote: »
    Agreed.

    The immigration system in this country is flawed because it is unfair to everyone involved - it's frustrating for the officers; it means people genuinely seeking asylum and are fit to work are left sitting in direct provision for years;
    Agreed.
    and, conversely, it means that people who for one reason or another do not have the right to remain in Ireland can spend up to 9 years appealing before finally being deported - that is not just wrong because of the waste of resources, it's wrong because it is unfair to allow a person to live and build a life in Ireland for the best part of a decade and then send them "back" to their country of origin, a country that may have completely changed in the meantime. That's not right either.
    Tough IMHO. They chose to come here illegally in the first place. I have little sympathy for them.
    But when Eric et al say that "immigration is a huge problem in this country" they're not talking about the above, they're taling about "letting in" the right "class" of immigrant.
    I don't see what the problem is with strongly filtering immigration. And yes the right kind. Those who add to the society, not add to the problems of that society. Educated people with a job/career waiting, regardless of "race". Importing an underclass is beyond insane for any society to do. That horse has bolted mind you.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #85
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    wiggle16 wrote: »
    That is a disgraceful thing to bring up in comparison to this story.

    You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. None.

    Disgraceful to bring up that a poster who routinely declined to provide me with anything bar vauge and sometimes unrelated answers to many questions is saying one of my answers is unsatisfactory , well thats a weird thing for you to find ‘disgraceful’


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    #86
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    So focus on the socio economic problems then, not the colour of their skin - that's just lazy scapegoating that never got any society anywhere.
    Do you really think announcing that they were black teens when these things happen is going to help matters? Of course it wont it will just divide people further and fuel hatred. Although you'd probably like that.

    Or we could focus on the the failure of immigration policy across swathes of Europe, a list that it looks ever more likely Ireland will join. But sure you'll no doubt come swinging with the racism card. It's very hard to fix one without fixing the other.


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    #87
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    So focus on the socio economic problems then, not the colour of their skin.

    They are living better here than they would in nigeria or inner city London. This isn't about living standards it's about gang culture and racism. Read the comments online from black people in Ireland. There is a lot of hatred for white irish people and a strong us and them mentally.

    If it's like this now wait and see what it's like in 20 years.

    Socio economic my fu*king arse.


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    #88
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    If there is an attack and the victim and the assailant are of differently colours then it should always be investigated as a racist attack.


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    #89
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    bubblypop wrote: »
    What percentage of non EU immigrants are classified as in the lower socioeconomic class? And what do you think we should do about it?
    If we take people into the country, perhaps one idea might be to not just abandon them into a life on social welfare? that surely does no good for any member of society.

    Personally I would like to see incentives that encourage all people into work and education.

    We shouldn't be taking in people that need government 'incentives' to work otherwise they be reliant solely on welfare.


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    #90
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,927 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    Or we could focus on the the failure of immigration policy across swathes of Europe, a list that it looks ever more likely Ireland will join. But sure you'll no doubt come swinging with the racism card. It's very hard to fix one without fixing the other.

    Yeah so focus on that, try and get immigration from Africa stopped. But in this case the kids are here and may have been born here, so what's the point in scapegoating them for the colour of their skin?


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    #91
    enricoh
    Registered Users Posts: 4,857 ✭✭✭enricoh


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Is this your whole life though? Worrying about immigrants and black people?
    I assume you're middle aged, or there or thereabouts, you wont be around for much longer, life is short. I suggest you just let it go and try appreciating what you have in life instead of worrying about immigrants taking your money or whatever it is that is the root cause of your insecurities.

    I've mates that bought in balbriggan in the tiger, they want to move but can't afford to. The house is devalued as it's in the epicenter of where these gangs operate. The council will probably buy it n skin him on the price.
    He's off work on the pup n retraining to try to earn more so they can get their kids the hell out of there.
    Should I tell him life is short, he's insecure n let it go!!


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