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Covid 19 Part XXXI-187,554 ROI (2,970 deaths) 100,319 NI (1,730 deaths)(24/01)Read OP

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Comments

  • #6482
    Happydays2020
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    People despair for different reasons.

    If there's an end point for regulations people will book meals for the day after. If they then get cancelled due to regulations being extended people will despair.

    I think it's a lot better to be honest about your expectations.

    I just don’t think they should be putting a time on this. If the numbers go down significantly and everyone works towards that then they should be pointing towards a very limited and gradual reopening. There is a carrot there.

    But it has shifted a little more towards the stick and people will start pushing boundaries.


  • #6483
    CalamariFritti
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,309 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    On the upside I'm just reading about first preliminary studies/observations from Israel where 20% of the population now have the first BoiNTech/Pfizer shot.

    Couple of studies there observing hundreds thousands over a day 14 period. Vaccinated vs non-vaccinated. Results are very encouraging.

    One study saw a drop in their groups of 33% the other even higher, 60%. Even encouraging signs that it may stop transmission not just symptoms.

    And that only after the first shot. Pfizer say full protection only comes after second.


  • #6484
    Happydays2020
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    tom1ie wrote: »
    For gods sake I’ve already said the border is a problem however we can’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good. We must do something.
    Business has to be re opened.

    We have a two tier economy. The export and trade sector which has been largely kept open is subsidising the rest of the economy. Shut down the former and we are in even more trouble.


  • #6485
    tom1ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,088 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    xhomelezz wrote: »
    I have no plan, but since this shīt started, all covid related threads on boards heard all possible excuses border related. But we still have endless checkpoints inland.

    Yep. People look at this as one big problem.
    It needs to be broke down into smaller problems that we can solve.
    Ie bring in quarantine for international travellers.
    Then confirm virus is coming in via NI.
    use this to put pressure on uk and NI government to have an all island quarantine approach.


  • #6486
    scamalert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭scamalert


    Morries Wigs wrote: »
    Norths a basket case you just cant deal with foster -a lot of our problems come from the north
    thats pure nonsense, just to put a blame on someone, sure people partied like never before some say over xmas, then someone else jumps in sure we let people come here without much bother etc :cool:.


    what amazes me most is it was obvious in summer that come autumn when flu season hits we have yearly people left of trolleys crap, and goverment did sweet FA pissing away millions on f knows what, but def not on increasing capacity, testing and preparing for unavoidable tsunami that were faced with now.


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  • #6487
    What Username Guidelines
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭What Username Guidelines


    Happydays2020 wrote: »
    We do not control what the North do.

    Yeah but by that logic we shouldn’t bother doing anything because “the north”. Why social distance or ban household visits then if sure “the north”? It’s all about many actions having an effect on suppressing as much as possible until vaccines lift us out. You can make travel very very difficult without trying to go for zero covid.


  • #6488
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,554 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    CalamariFritti wrote: »
    On the upside I'm just reading about first preliminary studies/observations from Israel where 20% of the population now have the first BoiNTech/Pfizer shot.

    Couple of studies there observing hundreds thousands over a day 14 period. Vaccinated vs non-vaccinated. Results are very encouraging.

    One study saw a drop in their groups of 33% the other even higher, 60%. Even encouraging signs that it may stop transmission not just symptoms.

    And that only after the first shot. Pfizer say full protection only comes after second.

    While all this is positive, Israel is also having huge case growth at the moment; one of the highest in the world (they overtook us on 7 day rolling average). About 1% of their population has tested positive within the past week alone. Deaths have also started to rise significantly too.

    This illustrates that while we're seeing promising effects from the vaccine, you need to remain under restrictions while it works and until you've rolled it out to a wide enough segment of your population.


  • #6489
    Happydays2020
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    What Username Guidelines wrote: »
    Yeah but by that logic we shouldn’t bother doing anything because “the north”. Why social distance or ban household visits then if sure “the north”? It’s all about many actions having an effect on suppressing as much as possible until vaccines lift us out. You can make travel very very difficult without trying to go for zero covid.

    You do realise that negative PCRs are now required? What else do you want to do? Stop flights and close ports. Quarantine everyone?

    The reality is that there is very little travel happening now except the likes of hauliers and other businesses who are keeping the economy alive. If the U.K. had been more forthcoming about the new strain then different decisions would have been taken but we cannot reverse history.


  • #6490
    tom1ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,088 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Happydays2020 wrote: »
    You do realise that negative PCRs are now required? What else do you want to do? Stop flights and close ports. Quarantine everyone?

    The reality is that very little travel happening except the likes of hauliers and other businesses who are keeping the economy alive. If the U.K. had been more forthcoming about the new strain then different decisions would have been taken but we cannot reverse history.

    We need to quarantine everyone that arrives on the island of Ireland at their own expense in hotels for two weeks.
    When they test negative after 2 weeks they are free to move around within the island.
    If we do this and get through our own infections plus roll out the vaccine we can have all business open.
    It’s the only way.
    Any other way and the weakness in the system is humans exploiting a loop hole as they think they are an exception.
    Any other way fails as people won’t go along with restrictions as we can see from what’s happening now and during Xmas.
    Say what you like but as Spock would say it’s the only logical conclusion.


  • #6491
    Purple Papillon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 36 ✭Purple Papillon


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    I'm sorry but the vast majority of people who catch covid will be OK.

    Many don't even know they have it.

    Our immune systems have been fighting viruses and diseases for 100s of years.

    That's why we have immune systems.

    This is no different.

    I know many people will be ok.

    According to the article yesterday and from the GPS dealing with this, it looks like the virus is changing in nature to more milder symptoms. The point is it can still cause SARS in some people. It's going to be harder for the health authorities to gain control of the virus with milder symptoms and less isolation of newly infected individuals. The virus is going to spread more and there will be more pressure on the hospitals.


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  • #6492
    TonyMaloney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭TonyMaloney


    Amirani wrote: »
    While all this is positive, Israel is also having huge case growth at the moment; one of the highest in the world (they overtook us on 7 day rolling average). About 1% of their population has tested positive within the past week alone. Deaths have also started to rise significantly too.

    This illustrates that while we're seeing promising effects from the vaccine, you need to remain under restrictions while it works and until you've rolled it out to a wide enough segment of your population.

    Was just going to post the same.

    I wonder how much the vaccination program has fed into people dropping their guard.


  • #6493
    Happydays2020
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    tom1ie wrote: »
    We need to quarantine everyone that arrives on the island of Ireland at their own expense in hotels for two weeks.
    When they test negative after 2 weeks they are free to move around within the island.
    If we do this and get through our own infections plus roll out the vaccine we can have all business open.
    It’s the only way.
    Any other way and the weakness in the system is humans exploiting a loop hole as they think they are an exception.
    Any other way fails as people won’t go along with restrictions as we can see from what’s happening now and during Xmas.
    Say what you like but as Spock would say it’s the only logical conclusion.

    Thankfully the government had enough sense not to implement that policy.


  • #6494
    Purple Papillon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 36 ✭Purple Papillon


    tom1ie wrote: »
    We need to quarantine everyone that arrives on the island of Ireland at their own expense in hotels for two weeks.
    When they test negative after 2 weeks they are free to move around within the island.
    If we do this and get through our own infections plus roll out the vaccine we can have all business open.
    It’s the only way.
    Any other way and the weakness in the system is humans exploiting a loop hole as they think they are an exception.
    Any other way fails as people won’t go along with restrictions as we can see from what’s happening now and during Xmas.
    Say what you like but as Spock would say it’s the only logical conclusion.

    The horse has bolted on that one. The point for introducing quarantine for arrivals was last summer when we had single digit numbers.


  • #6495
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Amirani wrote: »
    While all this is positive, Israel is also having huge case growth at the moment; one of the highest in the world (they overtook us on 7 day rolling average). About 1% of their population has tested positive within the past week alone. Deaths have also started to rise significantly too.

    This illustrates that while we're seeing promising effects from the vaccine, you need to remain under restrictions while it works and until you've rolled it out to a wide enough segment of your population.
    And, of course, if you have COVID, you can't get vaccinated for 4 weeks so that may also slow down their vaccination programme.


  • #6496
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    tom1ie wrote: »
    We need to quarantine everyone that arrives on the island of Ireland at their own expense in hotels for two weeks.
    When they test negative after 2 weeks they are free to move around within the island.
    If we do this and get through our own infections plus roll out the vaccine we can have all business open.
    It’s the only way.
    Any other way and the weakness in the system is humans exploiting a loop hole as they think they are an exception.
    Any other way fails as people won’t go along with restrictions as we can see from what’s happening now and during Xmas.
    Say what you like but as Spock would say it’s the only logical conclusion.

    What about the hundreds, perhaps small number of thousands, of hauliers that come into Ireland every day and make sure our supermarket shelves are stocked? The countries that have achieved ZC with mandatory border quarantine are overwhelmingly supplied by air, which means all imports are unmanned and can be ‘contactless’. UK has 20000 trucks roll into its ports every day, from all over Europe, and spread over the county and it’s interesting that the mandatory hotel idea seems to have died on the fine this morning, with Raab talking instead about using GPS to track arrivals

    Hotels could well form part of the strategy for non resident arrivals though, who would otherwise go travel around or stay in a hotel elsewhere


  • #6497
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Purple Papillon wrote: »
    I know many people will be ok.

    According to the article yesterday and from the GPS dealing with this, it looks like the virus is changing in nature to more milder symptoms. The point is it can still cause SARS in some people. It's going to be harder for the health authorities to gain control of the virus with milder symptoms and less isolation of newly infected individuals. The virus is going to spread more and there will be more pressure on the hospitals.
    Milder is not the issue, vaccinating those at highest risk should mean few to no hospitalisation and it being seen as little more than a common cold.


  • #6498
    Happydays2020
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    I wonder is the disease getting worse based on what the CMO said yesterday.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0116/1190204-daily-covid-figures/

    "When you consider that a significant percentage of our daily cases will directly lead to hospitalisation and mortality, the urgency with which we need to act becomes clear," he said.

    If this is the case the politicians need to level with people and we need to move to the most severe 2km lock down.


  • #6499
    dublin_paul
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 114 ✭✭dublin_paul


    Happydays2020 wrote: »
    I wonder is the disease getting worse based on what the CMO said yesterday.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0116/1190204-daily-covid-figures/

    "When you consider that a significant percentage of our daily cases will directly lead to hospitalisation and mortality, the urgency with which we need to act becomes clear," he said.

    If this is the case the politicians need to level with people and we need to move to the most severe 2km lock down.

    You’re really disconnected from reality if you think people would obey a 2km restriction... or any additional restriction...


  • #6500
    tom1ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,088 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Happydays2020 wrote: »
    Thankfully the government had enough sense not to implement that policy.

    What’s wrong with this policy.
    Take it apart line by line, because ya know, at least its a policy!


  • #6501
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    Happydays2020 wrote: »
    I wonder is the disease getting worse based on what the CMO said yesterday.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0116/1190204-daily-covid-figures/

    "When you consider that a significant percentage of our daily cases will directly lead to hospitalisation and mortality, the urgency with which we need to act becomes clear," he said.

    If this is the case the politicians need to level with people and we need to move to the most severe 2km lock down.

    Define 'significant' as it is used in his statement.


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  • #6502
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,554 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    Happydays2020 wrote: »
    If this is the case the politicians need to level with people and we need to move to the most severe 2km lock down.

    There are still instances of house parties happening, and people going to work that don't necessarily have to go to work.

    I don't think a 2km restriction would do much to address either of the above.


  • #6503
    tom1ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,088 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    What about the hundreds, perhaps small number of thousands, of hauliers that come into Ireland every day and make sure our supermarket shelves are stocked? The countries that have achieved ZC with mandatory border quarantine are overwhelmingly supplied by air, which means all imports are unmanned and can be ‘contactless’. UK has 20000 trucks roll into its ports every day, from all over Europe, and spread over the county and it’s interesting that the mandatory hotel idea seems to have died on the fine this morning, with Raab talking instead about using GPS to track arrivals

    Hotels could well form part of the strategy for non resident arrivals though, who would otherwise go travel around or stay in a hotel elsewhere

    Good point.
    So now we are getting somewhere.
    For non resident and people returning from abroad other than hauliers we enforce mandatory quarantine.
    What are other countries doing with hauliers?
    High level of testing plus making sure drivers do SD mask wearing, vaccination?


  • #6504
    TonyMaloney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭TonyMaloney


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Milder is not the issue, vaccinating those at highest risk should mean few to no hospitalisation and it being seen as little more than a common cold.

    I think that's wildly optimistic unfortunately.


  • #6505
    Probes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 466 ✭✭Probes


    Happydays2020 wrote: »
    I wonder is the disease getting worse based on what the CMO said yesterday.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0116/1190204-daily-covid-figures/

    "When you consider that a significant percentage of our daily cases will directly lead to hospitalisation and mortality, the urgency with which we need to act becomes clear," he said.

    If this is the case the politicians need to level with people and we need to move to the most severe 2km lock down.

    I don't see anything in that quote to suggest the virus has become worse. There is plenty of research out there in the severity, I don't think it's useful speculating on things like this. He's likely said that a hundred times during this pandemic.


  • #6506
    tom1ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,088 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Purple Papillon wrote: »
    The horse has bolted on that one. The point for introducing quarantine for arrivals was last summer when we had single digit numbers.

    The only way to get back to low digits is to enforce quarantine and at the same time get through our own virus problem.
    What do you think happens when we introduce new strains to the mix via international travel?


  • #6507
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    tom1ie wrote: »
    Good point.
    So now we are getting somewhere.
    For non resident and people returning from abroad other than hauliers we enforce mandatory quarantine.
    What are other countries doing with hauliers?
    High level of testing plus making sure drivers do SD mask wearing, vaccination?

    No, returning residents would quarantine at home. Only people rocking up with no address would stay in a hotel. And I would guess that right now these are absolutely minimal

    So back to what Rabb was saying this morning, which is better tracking....not mandatory hotel stays

    And as for the hauliers, some will be going home to their families after job is done. And the testing applies to all arrivals anyway. The other countries with ZC strategies do not have meaningful amounts of land based trade


  • #6508
    Happydays2020
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    dublin_paul wrote: »
    You’re really disconnected from reality if you think people would obey a 2km restriction... or any additional restriction...

    Indeed but I was more worried that the disease has mutated to such an extent that a significant percentage now end up in hospital and die.


  • #6509
    darem93
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 200 ✭✭darem93


    Mandatory quarantine absolutely should be introduced and as said on the last page, should have been introduced when we had the numbers in single digits.

    However how could we trust our government to enforce it when they can't even enforce the most basic measures they brought in just last week?

    https://twitter.com/marktigheST/status/1350767017192783872

    It would honestly make your blood boil :rolleyes:


  • #6510
    Probes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 466 ✭✭Probes


    tom1ie wrote: »
    The only way to get back to low digits is to enforce quarantine and at the same time get through our own virus problem.
    What do you think happens when we introduce new strains to the mix via international travel?

    Yeah totally agree. If there is one thing that you'd expect governments to have learnt by now is that protecting borders is paramount to beating the virus. Test and trace can't work if hundreds of people with the virus are allowed in each week.


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  • #6511
    tom1ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,088 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    No, returning residents would quarantine at home. Only people rocking up with no address would stay in a hotel. And I would guess that right now these are absolutely minimal

    So back to what Rabb was saying this morning, which is better tracking....not mandatory hotel stays

    So returning residents need to get from the port/airport to home under your plan.
    How’s that happen? How many people do they interact with on the way?
    How do we make sure they are quarantining?
    What about if they have elderly at risk at home?
    residents plus non residents need to quarantine in designated hotels to make sure they’re not bringing covid in.


This discussion has been closed.
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