Trump v Biden 2020,The insurrection (pt 6) Read OP

BattleCorp · 15-01-2021 08:57PM

Deleted User wrote: »

There is more to a society than an economy. An economy by the way which started its trajectory in 2010 and continued right through to the end of Obama second term. The best thing that can be said about trump is that he didn’t destroy the good economic work of the previous 8 years. He did his best to destroy the fabric of society thought, just to massage his own ego

You say the economy was on a trajectory and continued in the same trajectory.

I wonder then was the fabric of society on a trajectory and continued in the same trajectory?

Trump didn't cause BLM. The issues that led to that have been bubbling away for years. Long before Trump decided to grace us with his political presence.

It looks to me that the hatred for Trump is causing people to exaggerate the negative things that he has done and actually blame or link him to things he hasn't done.

I'm no Trump apologist or supporter. To be honest, I'd be ashamed if he was my President because he ain't a nice person. But it's hard to have a reasonable conversation with someone who is doesn't support him because they don't just not support him, they absolutely hate him with a passion.

swampgas · 15-01-2021 08:59PM

briany wrote: »

My initial point was about the idea of Republicans voting to overturn the election result. The following point about the slight movement on impeachment is to further broach the idea that not every Republican in the US Congress has a heart of stone.

The two objections to election results that did make it to a vote were both defeated with a thwomping bi-partisan majority, especially in the Senate. If certain Democrat congressmen and women had been taken out of the picture due to rioting, I'm still not seeing evidence that every Republican would have been whipped to vote in favour of overturning the results.

Pragmatism has to go both ways for someone like McConnell and McCarthy. There's trying to ensure the stability of his party, but there's also trying to ensure the stability of a country for there to even be a party in the first place, and I cannot think that would have been achieved where they cynically took advantage of a most horrible scenario where rioters handed them a numbers advantage in Congress such that they could overturn an election of which they had no proof was fraudulent.

The problem (IMO) for the GOP is as follows. Because of FPTP and the electoral system, you are either in power or in the wilderness. Bipartisanship is rare. And because they are losing out demographically, they face the prospect of never being in power again unless they change who they are, and what their values are - something they and their wealthy donors don't fancy.

If the current democratic system means you are finished, and you are have a bit of American "win at all costs" gumption, well that means ignoring democracy and finding a way to stay in power by other means.

The GOP have been at this already for years. A coup which leaves them in power indefinitely would suit them very well indeed.

briany · 15-01-2021 08:59PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

I know Trump is an absolute ar5ewipe but, unpopular as this opinion will be, I don't understand why there is so much absolute rage and bile aimed in his direction. I don't understand why people can't dislike him without going into a rage and frothing at the mouth at the mere mention of his name.

I'll be accused of trolling but I'm serious here. The American economy is going well (until COVID), but it's still doing pretty ok. Fair enough, Trump can be blamed for not adequately managing COVID but it was always going to be a problem in the States. Fact is the American public won't do what they are told because...........freedom etc. There was always going to be resistance to masks etc. Even obedient countries like Germany are having problems with COVID.

Less soldiers than ever are being killed in wars. Trump hasn't started any new wars as far as I'm aware.

Trump doesn't get fair play from the media either. He is painted in a bad light even when he does nothing wrong. For example, someone who owns a MAGA hat does anything wrong whatsoever, the media have headlines such as "Trump Supporter Rapes Bear" etc. Every single angle is used to try and smear Trump even when he has nothing to do with it.

Like I've said earlier in the thread, I'm far from a supporter of Trump. I'm just bemused by the level of hate towards him. It almost doesn't seem rational to me.

On the Covid issue, first Trump tried to downplay it, despite, as we now know, that he knew the seriousness, then he tried to call it a Democrat hoax, then he was battling governors over their handling of it in their respective jurisdictions, questioning the effectiveness of masks and of lockdowns, then trying to deflect any blame from himself or his administration and solely onto China, then wasn't attending taskforce meetings, saying completely ignorant stuff in press briefings, having a publicly-tense relationship with Fauci. At virtually every step of his Covid handling he has acted un-presidentially, instead politicising and dividing. He couldn't just be mature, listen to the science and get some sort of unity going. Oh, and on that note, the time he said, "Well, if you remove all these Democrat states from the equation, we're actually doing quite well!"

I mean, I don't doubt that if COVID had not come along, Trump would have been in a far better position to be re-elected, with the messaging being, "Hey, some of you may think I'm an a$$hole, but you know what? Economy's doing pretty good, ain't it?", but it wasn't a great strategy to basically hope that no large crisis came along to really test him. I'm sure there's an adage or two about adversity really revealing one's character. Well, what can the Covid adversity say about Trump's?

I will agree with you on the media, to an extent. I have definitely seen some news networks take quotes of his and put the worst spin on them possible, and I never thought that was fair, but I've heard enough unedited speech of his to know that he really is that bad without even needing to be taken out of context, so overall, the perception of him as a lousy president is not an artifice of a biased media, who he's called the enemy of the people.... except for the networks that do nothing but report positively on him.

briany · 15-01-2021 09:05PM

swampgas wrote: »

The problem (IMO) for the GOP is as follows. Because of FPTP and the electoral system, you are either in power or in the wilderness. Bipartisanship is rare. And because they are losing out demographically, they face the prospect of never being in power again unless they change who they are, and what their values are - something they and their wealthy donors don't fancy.

If the current democratic system means you are finished, and you are have a bit of American "win at all costs" gumption, well that means ignoring democracy and finding a way to stay in power by other means.

The GOP have been at this already for years. A coup which leaves them in power indefinitely would suit them very well indeed.

I wouldn't agree that even staging such a coup would leave them in power indefinitely. If they're going to be the minority party, this implies minority support, i.e. they're outnumbered by dissenting voices. Taking power in a way that everyone else could see was immoral, desperate and cynical would leave them open to an insurrection the other way and civil war within the United States.

mcmoustache · 15-01-2021 09:09PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

I know Trump is an absolute ar5ewipe but, unpopular as this opinion will be, I don't understand why there is so much absolute rage and bile aimed in his direction. I don't understand why people can't dislike him without going into a rage and frothing at the mouth at the mere mention of his name.

I'll be accused of trolling but I'm serious here. The American economy is going well (until COVID), but it's still doing pretty ok. Fair enough, Trump can be blamed for not adequately managing COVID but it was always going to be a problem in the States. Fact is the American public won't do what they are told because...........freedom etc. There was always going to be resistance to masks etc. Even obedient countries like Germany are having problems with COVID.

Less soldiers than ever are being killed in wars. Trump hasn't started any new wars as far as I'm aware.

Trump doesn't get fair play from the media either. He is painted in a bad light even when he does nothing wrong. For example, someone who owns a MAGA hat does anything wrong whatsoever, the media have headlines such as "Trump Supporter Rapes Bear" etc. Every single angle is used to try and smear Trump even when he has nothing to do with it.

Like I've said earlier in the thread, I'm far from a supporter of Trump. I'm just bemused by the level of hate towards him. It almost doesn't seem rational to me.

He's disliked because he has the temperament of a toddler. He lies all the time. His corruption is off the scale. He's a grade-A cnut. That's why he's disliked. You'll notice that I'm not frothing at the mouth.

Re the economy, national debt and the deficit are at record highs.

On the media, he gets a tough time but that's because of what he says and does. If he does a cúnty thing, they'll report it as a cúnty thing. That's just how it works.

The hate for him is easy to understand to anyone who has been paying attention. Even to those not paying attention, his refusal to accept the results of the election that he lost clearly shows him to be a massive cúnt.

Tell me how · 15-01-2021 09:09PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

ITrump doesn't get fair play from the media either. He is painted in a bad light even when he does nothing wrong. For example, someone who owns a MAGA hat does anything wrong whatsoever, the media have headlines such as "Trump Supporter Rapes Bear" etc. Every single angle is used to try and smear Trump even when he has nothing to do with it.

Like I've said earlier in the thread, I'm far from a supporter of Trump. I'm just bemused by the level of hate towards him. It almost doesn't seem rational to me.

Disbanded a pandemic preparedness office within the US government.
Pulled America out of the Paris Agreement
Withdrew from the Iran Nuclear Deal
Allowed Saudi Arabia to walk away after butchering a US citizen.
Empowered Kim Jonh-Un to develop his arsenal.
Rowed back on environmental regulations in the US.
Initiated the separation of kids from their families at the border.
Tried to arrange a quid pro quo with the Ukranian President.
Tried to pressure state officials in to helping him overturn a legitimate election.
Incited radicals to plot to kidnap and kill a state Governor.
Had 215 indictments leveraged against people connected with his administration.
Gave Russia a pass on placing bounties on US soldiers in Afghanistan.
Implored Governors to get tough with BLM protestors.
Tear Gassed peaceful protestors so he could use a church and the bible as a prop.
Deliberately underplayed the risks associated with Covid.
Encouraged his fans to meet in close contact contrary to scientific advice.
Tried to influence the USPS ability to process mail in ballots for the election.
Incited an insurrection at the Capitol.

Which of the above were lies made up by the media? Still bemused by the hatred he has attracted?

swampgas · 15-01-2021 09:11PM

briany wrote: »

I wouldn't agree that even staging such a coup would leave them in power indefinitely. If they're going to be the minority party, this implies minority support, i.e. they're outnumbered by dissenting voices. Taking power in a way that everyone else could see was immoral, desperate and cynical would leave them open to an insurrection the other way and civil war within the United States.

It would certainly leave politics in a very dangerous and unstable state. But look at other countries that have gone down the authoritarian route. They would consolidate power and block anything except token opposition. There would still be elections but the GOP would always win. Perhaps the bigger blue states might try to secede, California perhaps, if the USA went to far down the road of tyranny.

However if the only alternative to seizing power by force and deceit is to diminish, then many will take the risks associated with it.

15-01-2021 09:14PM

On top of that, the US sold billions of dollars worth of arms to Saudi Arabia which were used in war crimes...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/19/us-supplied-bomb-that-killed-40-children-school-bus-yemen

Foxtrol · 15-01-2021 09:20PM

Deleted User wrote: »

On top of that, the US sold billions of dollars worth of arms to Saudi Arabia which were used in war crimes...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/19/us-supplied-bomb-that-killed-40-children-school-bus-yemen

He also stopped reporting on metrics like drone strikes which has fooled some naive people to believing they are at a lower level than Obama.

Trump has made practically every bad decision a president can make but he still maintains the skill at fooling naive/uninformed/dumb people - as we continue to see in these threads

everlast75 · 15-01-2021 09:21PM

Tell me how wrote: »

Disbanded a pandemic preparedness office within the US government.

Pulled America out of the Paris Agreement

Withdrew from the Iran Nuclear Deal

Allowed Saudi Arabia to walk away after butchering a US citizen.

Empowered Kim Jonh-Un to develop his arsenal.

Rowed back on environmental regulations in the US.

Initiated the separation of kids from their families at the border.

Tried to arrange a quid pro quo with the Ukranian President.

Tried to pressure state officials in to helping him overturn a legitimate election.

Incited radicals to plot to kidnap and kill a state Governor.

Had 215 indictments leveraged against people connected with his administration.

Gave Russia a pass on placing bounties on US soldiers in Afghanistan.

Implored Governors to get tough with BLM protestors.

Tear Gassed peaceful protestors so he could use a church and the bible as a prop.

Deliberately underplayed the risks associated with Covid.

Encouraged his fans to meet in close contact contrary to scientific advice.

Tried to influence the USPS ability to process mail in ballots for the election.

Incited an insurrection at the Capitol.

Which of the above were lies made up by the media? Still bemused by the hatred he has attracted?

If I had the time i could list another 20 items...

Trump supporters decry the "fake news". They might make headway if people could see with their own ****ing eyes in real time what was happening, and that's putting aside Trump being a prolific tweeter bragging about his most egregious acts.

The guy is a fraud. People should give themselves a good slap across the face and wake up

MeMen2_MoRi_ · 15-01-2021 09:21PM

https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/1350170423602896896?s=19

Billy Mays · 15-01-2021 09:22PM

Overheal wrote: »

Biden’s inaugural is going to be lit ��

https://twitter.com/rebeccashabad/status/1350043944378376195?s=21

They should bin this entertainment stuff off for this year's inauguration imo.

I'm not just saying it cos of what's happened with Trump. We've had a past 12 months like no other. Nearly 400,000 Americans have died due to Covid. Thousands are still dying every day. Forget about your celebrity performances this one time. Just do the inauguration ceremony and get Biden and his cabinet straight to work.

Ted_YNWA · 15-01-2021 09:23PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Tripping yourself up there my American friend. Read it again.
I'm going to leave it at that. It wasn't an attempted coup and it will not be recorded in history or in the courts as such.
This sneery condescending level of debate does not imply wisdom. I'd be as well off arguing with my cat.

Deleted User wrote: »

No it wasn't. Firstly, they were not armed as the legal definition of such. Not one shot was fired and no one was stabbed. And no, flag poles don't count as weapons. It was an illegal and violent attempt to COERCE the government into follow their will.
Why people here are so precious and hung up about calling it a coup I do not understand.

I think a specific core of posters have been posting here for 4 long years, battling Trump supporters. Now Trump is gone they feel they have won and own the thread and resent new posters blowing in with their fancy new fangled opinions. Hence the schoolyard putdowns and dismissive sneering. :P

Deleted User wrote: »

Tripping yourself up there my American friend. Read it again.
I'm going to leave it at that. It wasn't an attempted coup and it will not be recorded in history or in the courts as such.
This sneery condescending level of debate does not imply wisdom. I'd be as well off arguing with my cat.

Deleted User wrote: »

Did your dog write this?
Buddy. Get some rest.

Mod - TimeLadsPlease - Threadbanned

I think it is you who needs the rest.

tigger123 · 15-01-2021 09:24PM

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/1350170423602896896?s=19

What the f*ck? That's some climb down.

Gregor Samsa · 15-01-2021 09:25PM

Deleted User wrote: »

It wasn't an attempted coup and it will not be recorded in history or in the courts as such.

Let’s see what a historian has to say about it:

https://twitter.com/BeschlossDC/status/1346906168258662400

Kermit.de.frog · 15-01-2021 09:27PM

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

Not even Toby Keith!

On a related note, who knew Charlotte Church was a prophet:

https://mobile.twitter.com/charlottechurch/status/818766435703025664

Just came across Randy Quaid's (the guy from Independence Day) twitter

Holy sh!t! :eek:

https://twitter.com/RandyRRQuaid

BattleCorp · 15-01-2021 09:29PM

Tell me how wrote: »

Disbanded a pandemic preparedness office within the US government.

Pulled America out of the Paris Agreement

Withdrew from the Iran Nuclear Deal

Allowed Saudi Arabia to walk away after butchering a US citizen.

Empowered Kim Jonh-Un to develop his arsenal.

Rowed back on environmental regulations in the US.

Initiated the separation of kids from their families at the border.

Tried to arrange a quid pro quo with the Ukranian President.

Tried to pressure state officials in to helping him overturn a legitimate election.

Incited radicals to plot to kidnap and kill a state Governor.

Had 215 indictments leveraged against people connected with his administration.

Gave Russia a pass on placing bounties on US soldiers in Afghanistan.

Implored Governors to get tough with BLM protestors.

Tear Gassed peaceful protestors so he could use a church and the bible as a prop.

Deliberately underplayed the risks associated with Covid.

Encouraged his fans to meet in close contact contrary to scientific advice.

Tried to influence the USPS ability to process mail in ballots for the election.

Incited an insurrection at the Capitol.

Which of the above were lies made up by the media? Still bemused by the hatred he has attracted?

I never said the media made up lies about him.

I'm just amazed because the hatred for him was there from day one, long before he did any of the crap listed above. And a few of the things on that list aren't 100% either.

A dislike and a very strong want to be rid of him I can understand. The bile directed towards him seemed strange to me.

Anyway, problem solved in 5 days time. America will instantly be returned to the Utopia it was before Trump was elected.

Anyway, I appear to be alone in my thinking so I'll take my beating.

BattleCorp · 15-01-2021 09:30PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Just came across Randy Quaid's (the guy from Independence Day) twitter

Holy sh!t! :eek:

https://twitter.com/RandyRRQuaid

He's been nuts a long time now.

15-01-2021 09:33PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

I never said the media made up lies about him.

I'm just amazed because the hatred for him was there from day one, long before he did any of the crap listed above. And a few of the things on that list aren't 100% either.

A dislike and a very strong want to be rid of him I can understand. The bile directed towards him seemed strange to me.

Anyway, problem solved in 5 days time. America will instantly be returned to the Utopia it was before Trump was elected.

Because his entire campaign for the presidency was the lowest common denominator, he mocked a veteran's parents. He demonised minorities and pushed conspiracies. Before he even ran for the presidency, he spent years pushing conspiracies that Obama wasn't American. His behaviour and platform was vile.

His presidency will be viewed awfully in history and for good reason.

gimli2112 · 15-01-2021 09:33PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

He's been nuts a long time now.

Yeah he's so far out there his views on Trump are probably the least weird thing about him.

Foxtrol · 15-01-2021 09:38PM

Billy Mays wrote: »

They should bin this entertainment stuff off for this year's inauguration imo.

I'm not just saying it cos of what's happened with Trump. We've had a past 12 months like no other. Nearly 400,000 Americans have died due to Covid. Thousands are still dying every day. Forget about your celebrity performances this one time. Just do the inauguration ceremony and get Biden and his cabinet straight to work.

It is already going to be an inauguration like no other, both due to COVID and the failed coup. They aren't packing the mall or doing concerts or the many balls that normally take place - just a TV show the evening of the inauguration (and another virtual.

A lot of people worked very hard for the election and millions of others are very happy that Biden is taking over. A 90 minute TV show isn't going to stop them going 'straight to work'. Biden is already going to be an extremely understated president compared to Trump, it would be a huge mistake not to mark the inauguration at all.

duploelabs · 15-01-2021 09:39PM

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

Let’s see what a historian has to say about it:

https://twitter.com/BeschlossDC/status/1346906168258662400

It's not a coup because it's not from the coup d'etat region of France, in this case it's just sparkling white insurrection

MeMen2_MoRi_ · 15-01-2021 09:40PM

tigger123 wrote: »

What the f*ck? That's some climb down.

This is what should happen to everyone who peddled the lie.. they should be held to account for their actions, maybe just maybe the rest will then awaken from their long sleep..

Akrasia · 15-01-2021 09:41PM

As we come to the twilight of Trumps Historic administration I think it’s time to re introduce Robert Altemyer’s book ‘The Authoritarians’

https://theauthoritarians.org/

It’s a book about ‘Right wing Authoritarians’ which was first published in 2006 based on decades of academic psychological research

It’s a study, not so much of the leaders, but of the followers, the people who stand behind an Authoritarian leader and will support him no matter what he does or where he takes them

The book can be read for free at the link above

Here is something the Author had to say about Trumps fans back in 2008

Why Authoritarian Followers Believe What They Believe

Compared to most people, studies have shown that authoritarian followers get their beliefs and opinions from the authorities in their lives, and hardly at all by making up their own minds. They memorize rather than reason. Religion provides a good example of this: authoritarians tend to believe strongly in whatever religion they were raised, the result of having had their religion strongly emphasized to them while they were growing up. But at some point in their youth—typically in early to mid-adolescence—they usually have doubts about what they have been taught. When this happens they typically go to their parents for guidance, or clerics, or scriptures, or friends who profess strong belief. They are mainly seeking reassurance, and not surprisingly, they keep their beliefs.1

Persons who grew up in homes where religion was not stressed as much also develop doubts about the things they had been taught when they reached adolescence. But they are much more likely to do a two-sided search for the answers, such as reading Genesis and learning about the theory of evolution, talking to believers and nonbelievers, and so on. Some then keep their faith, but others become “weak believers” or even apostates.)

By the way, the failure to do a two-sided search for the truth of their beliefs leaves scar tissue on the psyches of authoritarian followers. A “very safe survey” revealed that most of the followers in a large sample of university students had doubts about their religious beliefs, which you would never have guessed from their answers to normal surveys. And most of these doubters said that no one whatsoever knew they had these doubts. They were a deep secret

Gregor Samsa · 15-01-2021 09:43PM

With no huge public gathering at the inauguration (between Covid and the security situation), Trump will finally be able to compare his poor 2017 attendance numbers favourably to that of another President :pac:

15-01-2021 09:44PM

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

With no huge public gathering at the inauguration (between Covid and the security situation), Trump will finally be able to compare his poor 2017 attendance numbers favourably to that of another President :pac:

Can't tweet about it though.

briany · 15-01-2021 09:45PM

mcmoustache wrote: »

He's disliked because he has the temperament of a toddler. He lies all the time.

Just to remind everyone that this isn't Trump's first go-around with utterly debunked conspiracy theory. He was also a prominent proponent of the 'birther' movement which questioned if Obama was a U.S. citizen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdELrNvI9m4

He claimed to have investigators in Hawaii who were going to blow the lid off the whole story. As hilariously transparent lies go, it's up there with the kid at school who claimed he spent the Summer holidays being a roadie for Bon Jovi and fingered Jennifer Aniston.

And not only does Trump promote this kind of thing, but he never holds his hands up. At best, he just wants to move on from that old news.

Field east · 15-01-2021 09:49PM

There are a number of examples of ‘sparks’ throughout the world and history that set off major happenings. The following come to mind :-

That engineer in Tunisia that was refused a license by the local council to sell product on the street to try and generate some income. He set fire to himself and that was the spark that set off massive protests in loads of countries . I think the ‘ movement was called ‘The Spring Tide’.

: A private citizen on a street in Orlando reported what she felt was a disturbance in one if the upstairs rooms in a hotel she was passing by. Ben Dunne was in the room and we know where that ended with all those tribunals and their findings
;

That small group that occupied The GPO in 1916 had not a hope of taking over the country but we now know the ‘fire ‘that that spark caused.

Was the spark that started WW1 the assignation of some important political person in Serbia

So the point I want to make irrespective of the numbers that ‘ stormed’ the Capitol all one needed to create havoc was a few invaders to kill someone/ the police to do it in the hope that the general mob would go ballistic eg trample on , injure , kill more people , reek havoc on property , etc . God only knows why this did not happen when the guard shot that lady . And God only knows why mob rule did not take over.

mcmoustache · 15-01-2021 10:05PM

briany wrote: »

Just to remind everyone that this isn't Trump's first go-around with utterly debunked conspiracy theory. He was also a prominent proponent of the 'birther' movement which questioned if Obama was a U.S. citizen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdELrNvI9m4

He claimed to have investigators in Hawaii who were going to blow the lid off the whole story. As hilariously transparent lies go, it's up there with the kid at school who claimed he spent the Summer holidays being a roadie for Bon Jovi and fingered Jennifer Aniston.

And not only does Trump promote this kind of thing, but he never holds his hands up. At best, he just wants to move on from that old news.

Oh yeah, I forgot that one. The racist birther stuff was heavily promoted by him and that anti-Christmas wife of his.

Penn · 15-01-2021 10:08PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

I never said the media made up lies about him.

I'm just amazed because the hatred for him was there from day one, long before he did any of the crap listed above. And a few of the things on that list aren't 100% either.

A dislike and a very strong want to be rid of him I can understand. The bile directed towards him seemed strange to me.

Anyway, problem solved in 5 days time. America will instantly be returned to the Utopia it was before Trump was elected.

Anyway, I appear to be alone in my thinking so I'll take my beating.

Someone could easily do another list of all the sh*t he did before becoming President too. The hate was there because a lot of people knew what sort of guy he was, and the type of President he'd likely be. I think in most cases, they were only proved wrong by not even thinking he'd be as bad as he was.

Trump v Biden 2020,The insurrection (pt 6) Read OP

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