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Can you upset a seller where they write you off

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  • 08-01-2021 9:51pm
    #1
    aaaaaaaahhhhhh
    Registered Users Posts: 734 ✭✭✭


    Alright folks,

    I'm in the process of buying my first house. Got morgage approval in principle etc.

    I'm personally not a negotiator and hate the thoughts of it, but at the same time I dont want to pay the asking price.

    How do I approach this? Would I upset the seller by going say 10% lower?

    There isnt alot wrong with the house but there is a good bit to be done i.e. build bathroom downstairs(theres only one in the 3 bedroom house), take out oil and put in gas, add insulation etc.


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    #2
    Buddy Bubs
    Registered Users Posts: 3,500 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs


    aaaaaaaahhhhhh wrote: »
    Alright folks,

    I'm in the process of buying my first house. Got morgage approval in principle etc.

    I'm personally not a negotiator and hate the thoughts of it, but at the same time I dont want to pay the asking price.

    How do I approach this? Would I upset the seller by going say 10% lower?

    There isnt alot wrong with the house but there is a good bit to be done i.e. build bathroom downstairs(theres only one in the 3 bedroom house), take out oil and put in gas, add insulation etc.

    If you're not comfortable doing it and think you'll buckle during negotiations get someone more confident in it to do it for you. Some people love it!


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    #3
    Smouse156
    Registered Users Posts: 529 ✭✭✭Smouse156


    aaaaaaaahhhhhh wrote: »
    Alright folks,

    I'm in the process of buying my first house. Got morgage approval in principle etc.

    I'm personally not a negotiator and hate the thoughts of it, but at the same time I dont want to pay the asking price.

    How do I approach this? Would I upset the seller by going say 10% lower?

    There isnt alot wrong with the house but there is a good bit to be done i.e. build bathroom downstairs(theres only one in the 3 bedroom house), take out oil and put in gas, add insulation etc.

    Your offer should only we based on what you believe the house is worth! What they ask shouldn’t be a consideration. Calculate the fair price and adjust for repairs, renovations etc then offer that. If they are way off walk away! If they are close then ask yourself is it worth the extra 5/10/15k to you personally. Are you willing to overpay?


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    #4
    O.A.P
    Registered Users Posts: 1,376 ✭✭✭O.A.P


    If your not embarrassed by your first offer,
    it's not low enough .
    That system works for just about everything


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    #5
    alias no.9
    Registered Users Posts: 6,266 ✭✭✭alias no.9


    O.A.P wrote: »
    If your not ashamed of your first offer,
    it's not low enough .
    That system works for just about everything

    Ashamed is probably a bit far but if your opening offer is accepted, you've bid too much.


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    #6
    Caranica
    Registered Users Posts: 10,021 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    When we were selling we got one offer that was clearly insulting (from a neighbour) and I refused to take any further offers from them. Depends on how desperate the seller is to sell.


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    #7
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 14,344 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    aaaaaaaahhhhhh wrote: »
    Alright folks,

    I'm in the process of buying my first house. Got morgage approval in principle etc.

    I'm personally not a negotiator and hate the thoughts of it, but at the same time I dont want to pay the asking price.

    How do I approach this? Would I upset the seller by going say 10% lower?

    There isnt alot wrong with the house but there is a good bit to be done i.e. build bathroom downstairs(theres only one in the 3 bedroom house), take out oil and put in gas, add insulation etc.


    I presume you'll be dealing with an estate agent, and not the actual seller?

    There's no negotiating, you just make an offer. Give them a ring, or send an email and say "how are you lad, that yoke for sale, 123 Main Street, are there any offers on it at the moment? No? Grand, she's up for sale at 200k, but I'd be in a position to offer 180k, if you wanted to just mention that to the seller."


    The replies will always be:

    1. Someone already offered 180 and the seller said no.
    2. No offers yet, but seller is only interested in offers over X amount.
    3. We'll make a note of your offer but we don't think it will be successful.
    4. We'll pass your offer on to the seller and get back to you.


    They might come back to you with "seller said no, but would consider 195", but you don't give an answer there and then. You exchange pleasantries, hang up, and do your thinking/financials and see is it still worth buying at that price. Then you ring back and say yes/no.


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    #8
    blindside88
    Registered Users Posts: 1,968 ✭✭✭blindside88


    You can definitely insult a seller to the point that they refuse to deal with you. There are 3 schools of thought when pricing a house to sell .

    1) price it slightly high to allow you come down a little to make the buyer think they’ve got a deal (my preferred method). Generally priced about €5k-€10k above what you want to achieve.
    2) price it low in the hope of generating interest and generating a bidding war. This seller has no intention of taking the asking price or below.
    3) price it at exactly what you want to achieve and don’t budge on price.

    You need to look at similar properties sold in the area to figure out which method they’re going with. The majority will go with method 1 in my experience. If the house is in any way of a desirable are and the house is priced at €250k it wouldn’t be insulting to offer €235k and see how you go. In reality if they have it priced at €250k they’re not looking to take €200k


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    #9
    O.A.P
    Registered Users Posts: 1,376 ✭✭✭O.A.P


    alias no.9 wrote: »
    Ashamed is probably a bit far but if your opening offer is accepted, you've bid too much.

    No it's not , how many houses are you going to buy in a lifetime.?
    1 or 2 years looking for the one that fits your budget is better spent than 25 or 30 years hating every minute you struggle to own it.


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    #10
    O.A.P
    Registered Users Posts: 1,376 ✭✭✭O.A.P


    Caranica wrote: »
    When we were selling we got one offer that was clearly insulting (from a neighbour) and I refused to take any further offers from them. Depends on how desperate the seller is to sell.

    Unless you have bad history with that neighbour what was insulting about them trying to get the best deal possible?


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    #11
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,896 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Putting in a new bathroom is not the sellers problem, they are selling a 3 bed 1 bath, so you can't really reduce that from the offer. If you think it's worth €240k you can't drop off €10k for a bathroom. You have to offer €240k and then do your improvements.


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    #12
    Mjolnir
    Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Mjolnir


    Del2005 wrote: »
    Putting in a new bathroom is not the sellers problem, they are selling a 3 bed 1 bath, so you can't really reduce that from the offer. If you think it's worth €240k you can't drop off €10k for a bathroom. You have to offer €240k and then do your improvements.

    Agreed its the equivalent of looking at a car saying it doesn't have leather seats, I'll offer 5k less than you asked.

    Op those are predominantly you issues, you adding oil, gas, a bathroom, etc has nothing to do with the seller.

    Look up any recent sales in the area and listing prices of similar houses in the area.
    Decide what your max is and how much you think its worth baring in mind that the issues mentioned aren't the sellers problem and chuck in an offer.
    Worst case they say no, it'd want to be seriously under value to alienate a seller that much.


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    #13
    beachhead
    Registered Users Posts: 2,312 ✭✭✭beachhead


    O.A.P wrote: »
    Unless you have bad history with that neighbour what was insulting about them trying to get the best deal possible?

    ????


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    #14
    Caranica
    Registered Users Posts: 10,021 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    O.A.P wrote: »
    Unless you have bad history with that neighbour what was insulting about them trying to get the best deal possible?

    It was 20% below asking. Asking was set to match another property of same size and layout in the development that had gone sale agreed at asking. That property was in significantly worse condition than ours.


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    #15
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    alias no.9 wrote: »
    Ashamed is probably a bit far but if your opening offer is accepted, you've bid too much.

    You have read a negotiation book before havent you. I recognise that line.


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    #16
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    aaaaaaaahhhhhh wrote: »
    Alright folks,

    I'm in the process of buying my first house. Got morgage approval in principle etc.

    I'm personally not a negotiator and hate the thoughts of it, but at the same time I dont want to pay the asking price.

    How do I approach this? Would I upset the seller by going say 10% lower?

    There isnt alot wrong with the house but there is a good bit to be done i.e. build bathroom downstairs(theres only one in the 3 bedroom house), take out oil and put in gas, add insulation etc.

    There are a LOT of things you need to take into consideration:
    What the value of the market is ?
    What the value of the area is?
    What you need to invest in after you bought the house?

    Then there are the unknown factors are:
    How desperate is the seller is to sell?
    Who else is interested?
    How much they are willing to spend?
    How much the other buyer can actually get? (a house with sale agreed is not sold)

    Get a proper book on negotiating, sometimes a success purchase, isnt always a win and sometimes a missed oppertunity isnt always a loss.

    Knowing is half the Battle, Go Joe!!


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    #17
    Dafterss
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31 ✭Dafterss


    Look at propererty price register us to see what other houses sold for in area in last month
    Property prices have dropped 4% in most places and will keep dropping due to covid
    Send a written offer to agent all they can say is no after a couple of months when they can't sell they will accept offer


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    #18
    mrslancaster
    Registered Users Posts: 1,776 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    Dafterss wrote: »
    .....
    Property prices have dropped 4% in most places and will keep dropping due to covid ....

    Interesting reading.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/economists-predicted-a-covid-property-collapse-it-hasn-t-happened-1.4449261?mode=amp

    https://www.thejournal.ie/house-prices-up-6-fastest-inflation-three-years-5316170-Jan2021/


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    #19
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    When rents are massively outstripping purchase prices in a lot of places anyone who can possibly buy will be doing so.


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    #20
    Manion
    Registered Users Posts: 1,505 ✭✭✭Manion


    I think only a complete moron of a vendor would get insulted by an offer on a property. An offer from an interested party allows the agent to say they have multiple parties provided they have multiple in hand, and can get the ball rolling biding. Now, being seen as a time waster is a different story, if you're bidding significantly below already provided bids from other parities you're likely to get ignored. Something to keep in mind is that roughly 50% of all sale agrees fall through (at least a few years ago) so you could be the second or third place in terms of bids and still end up buying the property so don't feel undue pressure.


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    #21
    riclad
    Registered Users Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    You will not be dealing with the seller,
    Say the house is going for 200k,
    offer 170k, the agent tells the seller i have offer ,
    do you wish to accept it or decline it.
    you are not asking someone to go on a date.
    you want to install gas, another bedroom, thats up to you .
    the price of a house reflects market demand, location,
    most 3bedroom, houses built before 2000 have only one bathroom.
    you can look at the price register and other houses in the area for the average price.
    in the middle of a pandemic is not the best time to sell,
    we are heading for a Recession plus mass unemployment .
    its not about upsetting a seller.
    its about making a realistic offer in the present market.
    in dublin, for a 3bed ,over 100k, you are basically paying for the
    location if the house is a standard size.
    eg i want to live in area x, close to shops,schools, bus routes etc
    or close to work.
    What happens is you will make offers to the agent .your offer may be accepted or declined,
    do,nt just look at one house, think about a price,
    i can afford to spend x amount, i will need to spend x amount on improvements if my bid is accepted
    you cant expect a discount because you prefer gas to oil,and you wish to
    install another bathroom
    its sounds like an older house cos theres only basic levels of insulation


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    #22
    aaaaaaaahhhhhh
    Registered Users Posts: 734 ✭✭✭aaaaaaaahhhhhh


    Some great info here guys.

    The place I'm looking at is 179,000. The average cost over the last 5 years is below, so there might be some wriggle room with the seller..... hopefully:
    Last 1Y €165,000
    Last 2Ys €167,000
    Last 3Ys €159,000
    Last 4Ys €158,000
    Last 5Ys €147,000


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    #23
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    aaaaaaaahhhhhh wrote: »
    Some great info here guys.

    The place I'm looking at is 179,000. The average cost over the last 5 years is below, so there might be some wriggle room with the seller..... hopefully:
    Last 1Y €165,000
    Last 2Ys €167,000
    Last 3Ys €159,000
    Last 4Ys €158,000
    Last 5Ys €147,000

    How much do you know about the seller?
    Are they a motivated seller? Have they somewhere else sale agreed? The market seems like it is peaking in the area?

    How attractive are you to the seller?
    Are you in a line? Do you have your finance sorted? That could all work in your favour for someone motivated to move.


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    #24
    riclad
    Registered Users Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    I would offer 150 or 160 k,
    If u think the house is worth that,make some offer at least the agent will tell you
    what's going on, is there other bidders,
    Even if the offer is refused the agent will
    have your contact info,
    you should have a solicitor ready to
    deal with the transaction if the deal
    go's forward


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    #25
    Smouse156
    Registered Users Posts: 529 ✭✭✭Smouse156


    aaaaaaaahhhhhh wrote: »
    Some great info here guys.

    The place I'm looking at is 179,000. The average cost over the last 5 years is below, so there might be some wriggle room with the seller..... hopefully:
    Last 1Y €165,000
    Last 2Ys €167,000
    Last 3Ys €159,000
    Last 4Ys €158,000
    Last 5Ys €147,000

    What county is this?


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    #26
    aaaaaaaahhhhhh
    Registered Users Posts: 734 ✭✭✭aaaaaaaahhhhhh


    Smouse156 wrote: »
    What county is this?

    Waterford


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    #27
    Smouse156
    Registered Users Posts: 529 ✭✭✭Smouse156


    aaaaaaaahhhhhh wrote: »
    Waterford

    Is it the pinewood avenue one?


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    #28
    aaaaaaaahhhhhh
    Registered Users Posts: 734 ✭✭✭aaaaaaaahhhhhh


    Smouse156 wrote: »
    Is it the pinewood avenue one?

    No, its in Rice park.
    Are you the agent :rolleyes: ....... or owner :D:D


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    #29
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    this post just got very very interesting...... let the games begin
    Can we find the Rice Park house online?


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    #30
    Snorlaxx
    Registered Users Posts: 231 ✭✭Snorlaxx


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    this post just got very very interesting...... let the games begin
    Can we find the Rice Park house online?
    you call it Interesting, others would call it creepy, angry ex-girl/boy friend creepy ;)


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    #31
    clarsax
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭clarsax


    This one?

    https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/72-rice-park-waterford-x91xtt1/4467615#&gid=1&pid=5

    Been on couple of months at least and no BER!


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