Can you upset a seller where they write you off

aaaaaaaahhhhhh

Alright folks,

I'm in the process of buying my first house. Got morgage approval in principle etc.

I'm personally not a negotiator and hate the thoughts of it, but at the same time I dont want to pay the asking price.

How do I approach this? Would I upset the seller by going say 10% lower?

There isnt alot wrong with the house but there is a good bit to be done i.e. build bathroom downstairs(theres only one in the 3 bedroom house), take out oil and put in gas, add insulation etc.

Buddy Bubs

aaaaaaaahhhhhh wrote: »

Alright folks,

I'm in the process of buying my first house. Got morgage approval in principle etc.

I'm personally not a negotiator and hate the thoughts of it, but at the same time I dont want to pay the asking price.

How do I approach this? Would I upset the seller by going say 10% lower?

There isnt alot wrong with the house but there is a good bit to be done i.e. build bathroom downstairs(theres only one in the 3 bedroom house), take out oil and put in gas, add insulation etc.

If you're not comfortable doing it and think you'll buckle during negotiations get someone more confident in it to do it for you. Some people love it!

Smouse156

aaaaaaaahhhhhh wrote: »

Alright folks,

I'm in the process of buying my first house. Got morgage approval in principle etc.

I'm personally not a negotiator and hate the thoughts of it, but at the same time I dont want to pay the asking price.

How do I approach this? Would I upset the seller by going say 10% lower?

There isnt alot wrong with the house but there is a good bit to be done i.e. build bathroom downstairs(theres only one in the 3 bedroom house), take out oil and put in gas, add insulation etc.

Your offer should only we based on what you believe the house is worth! What they ask shouldn’t be a consideration. Calculate the fair price and adjust for repairs, renovations etc then offer that. If they are way off walk away! If they are close then ask yourself is it worth the extra 5/10/15k to you personally. Are you willing to overpay?

O.A.P

If your not embarrassed by your first offer,
it's not low enough .
That system works for just about everything

alias no.9

O.A.P wrote: »

If your not ashamed of your first offer,
it's not low enough .
That system works for just about everything

Ashamed is probably a bit far but if your opening offer is accepted, you've bid too much.

Caranica

When we were selling we got one offer that was clearly insulting (from a neighbour) and I refused to take any further offers from them. Depends on how desperate the seller is to sell.

aaaaaaaahhhhhh

aaaaaaaahhhhhh wrote: »

Alright folks,

I'm in the process of buying my first house. Got morgage approval in principle etc.

I'm personally not a negotiator and hate the thoughts of it, but at the same time I dont want to pay the asking price.

How do I approach this? Would I upset the seller by going say 10% lower?

There isnt alot wrong with the house but there is a good bit to be done i.e. build bathroom downstairs(theres only one in the 3 bedroom house), take out oil and put in gas, add insulation etc.

I presume you'll be dealing with an estate agent, and not the actual seller?

There's no negotiating, you just make an offer. Give them a ring, or send an email and say "how are you lad, that yoke for sale, 123 Main Street, are there any offers on it at the moment? No? Grand, she's up for sale at 200k, but I'd be in a position to offer 180k, if you wanted to just mention that to the seller."


The replies will always be:

1. Someone already offered 180 and the seller said no.
2. No offers yet, but seller is only interested in offers over X amount.
3. We'll make a note of your offer but we don't think it will be successful.
4. We'll pass your offer on to the seller and get back to you.


They might come back to you with "seller said no, but would consider 195", but you don't give an answer there and then. You exchange pleasantries, hang up, and do your thinking/financials and see is it still worth buying at that price. Then you ring back and say yes/no.

blindside88

You can definitely insult a seller to the point that they refuse to deal with you. There are 3 schools of thought when pricing a house to sell .

1) price it slightly high to allow you come down a little to make the buyer think they’ve got a deal (my preferred method). Generally priced about €5k-€10k above what you want to achieve.
2) price it low in the hope of generating interest and generating a bidding war. This seller has no intention of taking the asking price or below.
3) price it at exactly what you want to achieve and don’t budge on price.

You need to look at similar properties sold in the area to figure out which method they’re going with. The majority will go with method 1 in my experience. If the house is in any way of a desirable are and the house is priced at €250k it wouldn’t be insulting to offer €235k and see how you go. In reality if they have it priced at €250k they’re not looking to take €200k

O.A.P

alias no.9 wrote: »

Ashamed is probably a bit far but if your opening offer is accepted, you've bid too much.

No it's not , how many houses are you going to buy in a lifetime.?
1 or 2 years looking for the one that fits your budget is better spent than 25 or 30 years hating every minute you struggle to own it.

O.A.P

Caranica wrote: »

When we were selling we got one offer that was clearly insulting (from a neighbour) and I refused to take any further offers from them. Depends on how desperate the seller is to sell.

Unless you have bad history with that neighbour what was insulting about them trying to get the best deal possible?

Del2005

Putting in a new bathroom is not the sellers problem, they are selling a 3 bed 1 bath, so you can't really reduce that from the offer. If you think it's worth €240k you can't drop off €10k for a bathroom. You have to offer €240k and then do your improvements.

Mjolnir

Del2005 wrote: »

Putting in a new bathroom is not the sellers problem, they are selling a 3 bed 1 bath, so you can't really reduce that from the offer. If you think it's worth €240k you can't drop off €10k for a bathroom. You have to offer €240k and then do your improvements.

Agreed its the equivalent of looking at a car saying it doesn't have leather seats, I'll offer 5k less than you asked.

Op those are predominantly you issues, you adding oil, gas, a bathroom, etc has nothing to do with the seller.

Look up any recent sales in the area and listing prices of similar houses in the area.
Decide what your max is and how much you think its worth baring in mind that the issues mentioned aren't the sellers problem and chuck in an offer.
Worst case they say no, it'd want to be seriously under value to alienate a seller that much.

beachhead

O.A.P wrote: »

Unless you have bad history with that neighbour what was insulting about them trying to get the best deal possible?

????

Caranica

O.A.P wrote: »

Unless you have bad history with that neighbour what was insulting about them trying to get the best deal possible?

It was 20% below asking. Asking was set to match another property of same size and layout in the development that had gone sale agreed at asking. That property was in significantly worse condition than ours.

skooterblue2

alias no.9 wrote: »

Ashamed is probably a bit far but if your opening offer is accepted, you've bid too much.

You have read a negotiation book before havent you. I recognise that line.

skooterblue2

aaaaaaaahhhhhh wrote: »

Alright folks,

I'm in the process of buying my first house. Got morgage approval in principle etc.

I'm personally not a negotiator and hate the thoughts of it, but at the same time I dont want to pay the asking price.

How do I approach this? Would I upset the seller by going say 10% lower?

There isnt alot wrong with the house but there is a good bit to be done i.e. build bathroom downstairs(theres only one in the 3 bedroom house), take out oil and put in gas, add insulation etc.

There are a LOT of things you need to take into consideration:
What the value of the market is ?
What the value of the area is?
What you need to invest in after you bought the house?

Then there are the unknown factors are:
How desperate is the seller is to sell?
Who else is interested?
How much they are willing to spend?
How much the other buyer can actually get? (a house with sale agreed is not sold)

Get a proper book on negotiating, sometimes a success purchase, isnt always a win and sometimes a missed oppertunity isnt always a loss.

Knowing is half the Battle, Go Joe!!

Dafterss

Look at propererty price register us to see what other houses sold for in area in last month
Property prices have dropped 4% in most places and will keep dropping due to covid
Send a written offer to agent all they can say is no after a couple of months when they can't sell they will accept offer

mrslancaster

Dafterss wrote: »

.....
Property prices have dropped 4% in most places and will keep dropping due to covid ....

Interesting reading.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/economists-predicted-a-covid-property-collapse-it-hasn-t-happened-1.4449261?mode=amp

https://www.thejournal.ie/house-prices-up-6-fastest-inflation-three-years-5316170-Jan2021/

When rents are massively outstripping purchase prices in a lot of places anyone who can possibly buy will be doing so.

Manion

I think only a complete moron of a vendor would get insulted by an offer on a property. An offer from an interested party allows the agent to say they have multiple parties provided they have multiple in hand, and can get the ball rolling biding. Now, being seen as a time waster is a different story, if you're bidding significantly below already provided bids from other parities you're likely to get ignored. Something to keep in mind is that roughly 50% of all sale agrees fall through (at least a few years ago) so you could be the second or third place in terms of bids and still end up buying the property so don't feel undue pressure.

riclad

You will not be dealing with the seller,
Say the house is going for 200k,
offer 170k, the agent tells the seller i have offer ,
do you wish to accept it or decline it.
you are not asking someone to go on a date.
you want to install gas, another bedroom, thats up to you .
the price of a house reflects market demand, location,
most 3bedroom, houses built before 2000 have only one bathroom.
you can look at the price register and other houses in the area for the average price.
in the middle of a pandemic is not the best time to sell,
we are heading for a Recession plus mass unemployment .
its not about upsetting a seller.
its about making a realistic offer in the present market.
in dublin, for a 3bed ,over 100k, you are basically paying for the
location if the house is a standard size.
eg i want to live in area x, close to shops,schools, bus routes etc
or close to work.
What happens is you will make offers to the agent .your offer may be accepted or declined,
do,nt just look at one house, think about a price,
i can afford to spend x amount, i will need to spend x amount on improvements if my bid is accepted
you cant expect a discount because you prefer gas to oil,and you wish to
install another bathroom
its sounds like an older house cos theres only basic levels of insulation

aaaaaaaahhhhhh

Some great info here guys.

The place I'm looking at is 179,000. The average cost over the last 5 years is below, so there might be some wriggle room with the seller..... hopefully:
Last 1Y €165,000
Last 2Ys €167,000
Last 3Ys €159,000
Last 4Ys €158,000
Last 5Ys €147,000

skooterblue2

aaaaaaaahhhhhh wrote: »

Some great info here guys.

The place I'm looking at is 179,000. The average cost over the last 5 years is below, so there might be some wriggle room with the seller..... hopefully:
Last 1Y €165,000
Last 2Ys €167,000
Last 3Ys €159,000
Last 4Ys €158,000
Last 5Ys €147,000

How much do you know about the seller?
Are they a motivated seller? Have they somewhere else sale agreed? The market seems like it is peaking in the area?

How attractive are you to the seller?
Are you in a line? Do you have your finance sorted? That could all work in your favour for someone motivated to move.

riclad

I would offer 150 or 160 k,
If u think the house is worth that,make some offer at least the agent will tell you
what's going on, is there other bidders,
Even if the offer is refused the agent will
have your contact info,
you should have a solicitor ready to
deal with the transaction if the deal
go's forward

Smouse156

aaaaaaaahhhhhh wrote: »

Some great info here guys.

The place I'm looking at is 179,000. The average cost over the last 5 years is below, so there might be some wriggle room with the seller..... hopefully:
Last 1Y €165,000
Last 2Ys €167,000
Last 3Ys €159,000
Last 4Ys €158,000
Last 5Ys €147,000

What county is this?

aaaaaaaahhhhhh

Smouse156 wrote: »

What county is this?

Waterford

Smouse156

aaaaaaaahhhhhh wrote: »

Waterford

Is it the pinewood avenue one?

aaaaaaaahhhhhh

Smouse156 wrote: »

Is it the pinewood avenue one?

No, its in Rice park.
Are you the agent :rolleyes: ....... or owner :D

skooterblue2

this post just got very very interesting...... let the games begin
Can we find the Rice Park house online?

Snorlaxx

skooterblue2 wrote: »

this post just got very very interesting...... let the games begin
Can we find the Rice Park house online?

you call it Interesting, others would call it creepy, angry ex-girl/boy friend creepy

clarsax

This one?

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/72-rice-park-waterford-x91xtt1/4467615#&gid=1&pid=5

Been on couple of months at least and no BER!

skooterblue2

Snorlaxx wrote: »

you call it Interesting, others would call it creepy, angry ex-girl/boy friend creepy

Dont you like to watch?!?!?!? Its like dogging but with a property negotiation.

The seller has some cahones!!!! 180k for Rice Park!!!

160k at best for a Terraced house in Waterford, plus you have to do the back garden.

skooterblue2

clarsax wrote: »

This one?

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/72-rice-park-waterford-x91xtt1/4467615#&gid=1&pid=5

Been on couple of months at least and no BER!

You can fix it up fairly fast with insulation. Rock wool and foam in the walls is cheap for the value it gives.
Its well over priced for the market. 160K would be no insult. Throw in an offer and let it sit OP. In a few more months it will look like a common sense offer, maybe even over priced after February.

aaaaaaaahhhhhh

clarsax wrote: »

This one?

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/72-rice-park-waterford-x91xtt1/4467615#&gid=1&pid=5

Been on couple of months at least and no BER!

Yea that's the one, good bit of work to be done to it i.e adding the bathroom, etc

Smouse156

No 65 (similar) sold in 2018 for €150k and the market hasn’t moved much since then, definitely no more than 5%. It’s also only 65sqm so it’s quite small for the price. I’d say fair value is around €155k-€160k.

€179k seems way overpriced!

Smouse156

aaaaaaaahhhhhh wrote: »

No, its in Rice park.
Are you the agent :rolleyes: ....... or owner :D

Neither lol, just trying to help ya out! Hard to do that unless I know the exact one

aaaaaaaahhhhhh

Smouse156 wrote: »

Neither lol, just trying to help ya out! Hard to do that unless I know the exact one

You think pinewood is a better deal? Houses are abt 40 years old I think.

skooterblue2

aaaaaaaahhhhhh wrote: »

Yea that's the one, good bit of work to be done to it i.e adding the bathroom, etc

So you buy it for 160k and 5k for insulation (whole house, rock wool and foam) and another 15k for the bathroom (assuming using proper tradesmen and an extension) So that means the house is worth €180k? I dont think so. This is overpriced for the market, the owner is not desperate to sell and the estate agent has it over priced. If you dont have time to mess with this deal try somewhere else.

skooterblue2

aaaaaaaahhhhhh wrote: »

You think pinewood is a better deal? Houses are abt 40 years old I think.

Nothing wrong with a mature estate!! semi detached, lovely back yard with sheds and properly priced for the market to see with only the Aluminium windows to change. Much better priced to sell.

https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/semi-detached-house-1-pinewood-avenue-hillview-co-waterford/2843815

Smouse156

aaaaaaaahhhhhh wrote: »

You think pinewood is a better deal? Houses are abt 40 years old I think.

Pinewood is also overpriced. They’re probably pricing off the fact that 49 sold for €170k, however, that unit had an extension off the side. I would say that is only worth €150-€160k.

There is one in Sherlock Walk that seems best priced (also €179k), however, I am not familiar with Waterford at all. I’m only estimating based on similar sales and unit sizes.

aaaaaaaahhhhhh

What are your thoughts on this place?

https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/semi-detached-house-54-carn-glas-way-gracedieu-co-waterford/2627414

Its seems like a real attractive place especially with the 3(possibly 4 floors if you convert the attic)

brisan

clarsax wrote: »

This one?

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/72-rice-park-waterford-x91xtt1/4467615#&gid=1&pid=5

Been on couple of months at least and no BER!

You can report the advert
BER tbc is not legal
All property ads must have a BER RATING and a BER number attached

Smouse156

aaaaaaaahhhhhh wrote: »

What are your thoughts on this place?

https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/semi-detached-house-54-carn-glas-way-gracedieu-co-waterford/2627414

Its seems like a real attractive place especially with the 3(possibly 4 floors if you convert the attic)

Can’t open link! Describe please, price, name so I can check it

skooterblue2

Smouse156 wrote: »

Can’t open link! Describe please, price, name so I can check it

54 Carn Glas, Just outside Waterford city. ASking price 209k. No 54 Carn Glas Way

Its on the waterford banks of the suir up river. Has a town bus Route (still think you would need a car). Still greenfields. New build of about 12 years ago.
5 Beds 4 bathrooms. Looks like a new build townhouse in the country side.

Nice paved yard out the back, could be converted back to a Garden.

pooch90

For what it's worth, I currently live in a 3 storey house like that and it's a pain in the a*** living over 3 floors. Always terrified of the kids going flying.

Smouse156

skooterblue2 wrote: »

54 Carn Glas, Just outside Waterford city. ASking price 209k. No 54 Carn Glas Way

Its on the waterford banks of the suir up river. Has a town bus Route (still think you would need a car). Still greenfields. New build of about 12 years ago.
5 Beds 4 bathrooms. Looks like a new build townhouse in the country side.

Nice paved yard out the back, could be converted back to a Garden.

Hard to say, 122sqm is the size of a 3-bed house so it must be a very tight 5-bed!
In terms of price, number 13, a smaller unit over 2 floors achieved €144k last month so I wouldn’t say they’re miles off. Probably worth 190k

skooterblue2

Smouse156 wrote: »

Hard to say, 122sqm is the size of a 3-bed house so it must be a very tight 5-bed!
In terms of price, number 13, a smaller unit over 2 floors achieved €144k last month so I wouldn’t say they’re miles off. Probably worth 190k

Another thing is "Waterford". Its a tough place to get a job unless you are family or in some sort of clique. Limited career and education opportunities due to history with industry. That is what limits house prices in Waterford.

Smouse156

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Another thing is "Waterford". Its a tough place to get a job unless you are family or in some sort of clique. Limited career and education opportunities due to history with industry. That is what limits house prices in Waterford.

Probably the only county in the country with “value for money” in relation to houses

KaneToad

Caranica wrote: »

When we were selling we got one offer that was clearly insulting (from a neighbour) and I refused to take any further offers from them. Depends on how desperate the seller is to sell.

Bad move on your part. It's a business transaction, that's all. They don't care that it's your much loved home.

They could have eventually offered many multiples of the asking price.

NSAman

aaaaaaaahhhhhh wrote: »

How do I approach this? Would I upset the seller by going say 10% lower?

There isnt alot wrong with the house but there is a good bit to be done i.e. build bathroom downstairs(theres only one in the 3 bedroom house), take out oil and put in gas, add insulation etc.

You have got to be kidding ... Right?

You ALWAYS haggle the sales price.

It is a negotiation. You drop they price, if seller is in strong position they say F*** Off... if they are not, then there is a bargain to be had.

NEVER offer the full price. Too many people do not bother negotiating.

I have never paid the asking price for any property... ever. I do my research check comps and then haggle like mad. If you want it be prepared to pay full ask. If you can feign indifference start a haggle.

Money is ALWAYS better in your pocket than in someone elses.

skooterblue2

Smouse156 wrote: »

Probably the only county in the country with “value for money” in relation to houses

yes, true and in everything else not so much. I never had any family ties when I was there. I used to live next to the park in a fantastic apartment but couldnt get a job. You need balance. The Polar opposite of Waterford is Dublin but the housing is out of control.