Building a house as a non-local?

dawanda · 10-01-2021 1:22pm #1

Hi everyone,

I'm German but permanently live in Ireland because of my job. I need to move into my own place at some point, so I am thinking of various options.

I was trying to look into building your own house but it always says "subject to planning permission". I contacted a few agents and from what I understand I would only be allowed to build if I were a long-time local - which, of course, I am not. Is this only Wicklow? Or only parts of Wicklow? Are there any areas not all too far from Dublin (max. 1.5 hrs by car) where I can get a permission as a non-local?
I tried google but nothing came up - must have not used the right search terms. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I'd like to calculate whether building a house would work out cheaper than buying an already existing one. But also, I would be quite interested in an eco friendly house (solar power etc) and I would also looooooove a sunroom. It's been my dream since a child. And I couldn't find many houses with sunrooms in my price class and I am not sure whether it's something you can add to a house later. I assume you need a planning permission for this as well :rolleyes:

Thanks in advance

[Deleted User] · 10-01-2021 1:38pm

even if you satisfy local needs you may find the cost of building a house in Ireland since 2020 prohibitive and the end result not to your liking as each Council has an office of Planners who are self-appointed arbiter/guardian of what they consider good taste using phrases like "not in keeping with the local vernacular" to disallow your plans.
Near Zero Emission Building(NZEB) regulations add 20 to 30% to the cost of construction.
Building a house in Ireland will be nowhere near as inexpensive as massivbau or fertighaus to similar standards in Germany. Your money will go a lot farther building the house of your dreams somewhere like the Swabian Alps or Mosel Valley or Taunus region than in Ireland and the cost to finance it with a mortgage a fraction of the zinsen rate.

dawanda · 10-01-2021 2:22pm

Thank you for your reply, that's very devastating.
I really like my job and I'm happy enough in Ireland, but the housing situation is just unbearable. I am feeling completely helpless. I would get a mortgage given that I have a secure job but as a single person I would only be able to afford the bottom 20% or so and obviously nothing less than 1.5 hrs away from Dublin where I live. It's devastating for me that for the same salary I would be able to afford everything I am dreaming of in Germany. But I really want to keep my job because I love it, so I am just trying to find some solution

[Deleted User] · 10-01-2021 2:26pm

Just look at the cost of contruction quotes on the building and construction sub-forum. They are frightening.
You could build within the boundaries of a town without local needs but if your quality of life depends on living in the countryside then this won't be satisfactory for you.

dawanda · 10-01-2021 2:36pm

I don't have to live in the countryside, but I would like a garden.
I still don't get the idea of local needs. What is it? Who decides that? Is there a way to find out before visiting a planner's office?

Spanish Eyes · 10-01-2021 2:40pm

You could search for a cottage or similar that needs refurbishment. That would not be subject to local needs.

cnocbui · 10-01-2021 2:41pm

If I were a billionaire, i would love to rip this country a few new ones by challenging some of the nonsense that goes on here, such a favouring 'locals' at the EU court level. I'm currently making moves to emigrate.

Graham · 10-01-2021 2:43pm

dawanda wrote: »

I still don't get the idea of local needs. What is it? Who decides that? Is there a way to find out before visiting a planner's office?

From what you've said you can assume you will fail to qualify for local needs in pretty much any county* for some or all of the following:

you don't already live there
you're not from there
you don't have strong connections there
you're not employed there
you have no family there

In short, you have no 'need' to be there.

Your best bet for self building is to find a site with planning that doesn't have a 'local needs' requirement.

Added to clarify

* in an area with a local needs requirement.

awec · 10-01-2021 2:45pm

dawanda wrote: »

I don't have to live in the countryside, but I would like a garden.
I still don't get the idea of local needs. What is it? Who decides that? Is there a way to find out before visiting a planner's office?

It's to stop random houses being built all over the countryside. It is more efficient and sustainable for housing to be provided in population centres rather than haphazard ribbon development. It allows for much better provisioning of services.

Local needs means you can only do this if you can demonstrate that you have some requirement to live in that area.

As someone mentioned above you can get around this if you buy a site that has already has a property on it and knock it / renovate it instead.

awec · 10-01-2021 2:49pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Just look at the cost of contruction quotes on the building and construction sub-forum. They are frightening.
You could build within the boundaries of a town without local needs but if your quality of life depends on living in the countryside then this won't be satisfactory for you.

It is incredibly unlikely the OP would be able to buy a site in a town and build a house for less money than it would cost to buy one from a developer.

I am not convinced that self builds are cheaper, unless you are being gifted a site or finish the house to a very low spec.

lalababa · 10-01-2021 2:50pm

Option of buying is much better than building , especially for you. Any kind of an old shack maybe better than renting in Dublin. Another option is you could buy a bit of land and have a camper van/mobile with a dry toilet and do your showers at the local gym/club.(in order to save up for buying shack/house)
Guessing an acre of agri land around 10k.

[Deleted User] · 10-01-2021 2:50pm

awec wrote: »

It is incredibly unlikely the OP would be able to buy a site in a town and build a house for less money than it would cost to buy one from a developer.

In my home town it is possible at similar cost and saves them for the 20% social housing anti-social behaviour lottery.

Marcusm · 10-01-2021 2:55pm

dawanda wrote: »

I don't have to live in the countryside, but I would like a garden.
I still don't get the idea of local needs. What is it? Who decides that? Is there a way to find out before visiting a planner's office?

"Local needs" where it applies only relates to one-off builds outside the perimeter of a town or village. One does not need to be a local to satisfy "local needs" but it can often help for persons who need to live on or near, for example, agircultural land which they will be working.

It is simply incorrect to state that there is nothin within 1.5 hours of Dublin which is available for an average (or likely in your case, above average) budget.

Will you be traveling to Dublin daily for work? Do you wish to rely on public transport? Are you willing./able to consider bus as well as train transport.

What size property do you require? Size of accommodation, size of garden, privacy etc. What type of local facilities do you require? Building plots will be available within the town/village confines in Wicklow and Kildare which will not be subject to local needs. I am sure the same is true in Meath and Louth also. (All within 90 minutes.)

Marcusm · 10-01-2021 2:57pm

awec wrote: »

It is incredibly unlikely the OP would be able to buy a site in a town and build a house for less money than it would cost to buy one from a developer.

I am not convinced that self builds are cheaper, unless you are being gifted a site or finish the house to a very low spec.

True developers are rarely interested in small urban plots on which they can build one or two properties. If the resultant property fits the OP's requirements, is it a problem that it might cost more than a cookie cutter house in a 50 unit development (such as it might be inferred that the OP doesn't desire).

awec · 10-01-2021 3:00pm

Marcusm wrote: »

True developers are rarely interested in small urban plots on which they can build one or two properties. If the resultant property fits the OP's requirements, is it a problem that it might cost more than a cookie cutter house in a 50 unit development (such as it might be inferred that the OP doesn't desire).

No, but the OP was trying to figure out if it would be cheaper to build rather than buy.

IMHO it is unlikely to be cheaper, unless they are gifted a site (obviously not applicable in the OPs case) or they find a cheap enough site and build a low spec house.

Again, IMHO if you are asking for build vs buy a like-for-like house, buying would be cheaper.

Gumbo · 10-01-2021 3:01pm

dawanda wrote: »

I don't have to live in the countryside, but I would like a garden.
I still don't get the idea of local needs. What is it? Who decides that? Is there a way to find out before visiting a planner's office?

Employ a local planning agent.
Not all councils operate Local Needs.

There are many that don’t.

dawanda · 10-01-2021 3:36pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

You could search for a cottage or similar that needs refurbishment. That would not be subject to local needs.

Ahh, thanks for the tip, I didn't know that. I wouldn't be able to refurbish myself. Is it advisable to go down that road when you need to hire peoople?

dawanda · 10-01-2021 3:38pm

awec wrote: »

It's to stop random houses being built all over the countryside. It is more efficient and sustainable for housing to be provided in population centres rather than haphazard ribbon development. It allows for much better provisioning of services.

Local needs means you can only do this if you can demonstrate that you have some requirement to live in that area.

As someone mentioned above you can get around this if you buy a site that has already has a property on it and knock it / renovate it instead.

That's very helpful, thank you

CrazyFather1 · 10-01-2021 3:43pm

Plenty of options available. All depends on budget. What sort of money you talking about?
You mention 1.5 hours from Dublin, I guess you are not doing a daily commute? are you talking 1.5 hours door to door because I live way outside Dublin, it took me 40 min to get to outskirts and then an hour to get to office :-) so just wondering are you working in city centre etc?

People get hung up on an area and then HAVE to build in it or buy in it, so the prices goes nuts. You can look around and find plenty of options available. The big question is budget or what you think you will get for a mortgage.

sydthebeat · 10-01-2021 3:46pm

dawanda wrote: »

I don't have to live in the countryside, but I would like a garden.
I still don't get the idea of local needs. What is it? Who decides that? Is there a way to find out before visiting a planner's office?

"Rural housing" is a finite resource, which has been used extensively over the last 30 years.
As it is finite, it needs to be rationed, and it is government policy that rural housing should be restricted to those with a need to live on the rural area... This is what is referred to as "local needs"... And applicants need to prove their need. There are many criteria to do this.

That being said, there are large parts of the countryside where population is dropping and there is no restriction on local need.

So it is very possible to get permission for a rural house in many parts of the country, even when you are not a local.

Of course, these areas are not yet highly desired country areas a couple of miles outside of large towns... They very much are deep countryside areas... Pretty much furthest from large cities and towns

dawanda · 10-01-2021 3:46pm

Marcusm wrote: »

"Local needs" where it applies only relates to one-off builds outside the perimeter of a town or village. One does not need to be a local to satisfy "local needs" but it can often help for persons who need to live on or near, for example, agircultural land which they will be working.

It is simply incorrect to state that there is nothin within 1.5 hours of Dublin which is available for an average (or likely in your case, above average) budget.

Will you be traveling to Dublin daily for work? Do you wish to rely on public transport? Are you willing./able to consider bus as well as train transport.

What size property do you require? Size of accommodation, size of garden, privacy etc. What type of local facilities do you require? Building plots will be available within the town/village confines in Wicklow and Kildare which will not be subject to local needs. I am sure the same is true in Meath and Louth also. (All within 90 minutes.)

My budget is 250k at the very, very max (200K is more realistic). I have to be in Dublin 3 times a week and I can drive, so there does not have to be great public transport. I am looking for something at least 80 sqm, privacy (so not a terraced house), a decent size garden, but does not need to be huge. I'm not really good in estimating sizes, I'm sorry.
I am dreaming of sitting in my sunroom getting lots of sun because I am getting severely depressed if I don't have enough sun. I know that's hard in Ireland but Wicklow actually works out pretty well for me. If the area is too build up there's not much sun for anyone at home, of course. That's why I would be looking for something detached or semi-detached, I guess.
But I am completely new to the topic of buying a home and I don't have parents or family at all that could advise me, so I am super grateful for any advice from you guys.

Baybay · 10-01-2021 3:58pm

Dwanda, have a look on Daft.ie

If you’re not already familiar with the site, start by looking in Co. Wicklow to see what’s available in your price range.
You’ll see some older cottages & housing stock in need of refurbishment across the county. Of course, you might also see something new, energy efficient with a small garden that would also suit.
Unless you want a particularly large garden, generally speaking houses have some outdoor space that will allow some sort of garden room to be added at the back of a property where additions up to a fairly generous size are allowed without planning permission being required.

dawanda · 10-01-2021 4:01pm

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

Plenty of options available. All depends on budget. What sort of money you talking about?
You mention 1.5 hours from Dublin, I guess you are not doing a daily commute? are you talking 1.5 hours door to door because I live way outside Dublin, it took me 40 min to get to outskirts and then an hour to get to office :-) so just wondering are you working in city centre etc?

People get hung up on an area and then HAVE to build in it or buy in it, so the prices goes nuts. You can look around and find plenty of options available. The big question is budget or what you think you will get for a mortgage.

Budget is 200K though I could stretch it to a max of 250K (but would like to avoid that since it would be pretty tough to pay it off before I retire). I work in south Dublin, so I can avoid the city centre. I have to commute at least 3 days a week. 1.5 hrs one-way sucks but what can I do??

dawanda · 10-01-2021 4:04pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

"Rural housing" is a finite resource, which has been used extensively over the last 30 years.
As it is finite, it needs to be rationed, and it is government policy that rural housing should be restricted to those with a need to live on the rural area... This is what is referred to as "local needs"... And applicants need to prove their need. There are many criteria to do this.

That being said, there are large parts of the countryside where population is dropping and there is no restriction on local need.

So it is very possible to get permission for a rural house in many parts of the country, even when you are not a local.

Of course, these areas are not yet highly desired country areas a couple of miles outside of large towns... They very much are deep countryside areas... Pretty much furthest from large cities and towns

Thank you, that's very interesting. Any idea how to find it from the comfort of my home what areas this might apply to?
I feel like pretty much everywhere expect Dublin is very small (coming from Germany, I guess), so I'm not sure I would feel the difference between, say, Gorey and outside Baltinglass (to name two random places). But I need a stable wifi connection for work and from what I read this can be an issue in Ireland's more rural areas.

Gosh, I wish my work were in Donegal. Beautiful houses there on daft.

dawanda · 10-01-2021 4:06pm

Baybay wrote: »

Dwanda, have a look on Daft.ie

If you’re not already familiar with the site, start by looking in Co. Wicklow to see what’s available in your price range.
You’ll see some older cottages & housing stock in need of refurbishment across the county. Of course, you might also see something new, energy efficient with a small garden that would also suit.
Unless you want a particularly large garden, generally speaking houses have some outdoor space that will allow some sort of garden room to be added at the back of a property where additions up to a fairly generous size are allowed without planning permission being required.

Aaah, that's good to know about the garden room.

Yes, I am on daft aaaaaaall the time. There's really nothing in co. Wicklow in my price category :-( I didn't consider places that need refurb because I wouldn't be able to do this myself and I heard people advice against it unless you can do stuff yourself. But maybe that's not true?

Spanish Eyes · 10-01-2021 4:09pm

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/1-glenview-gorey-road-carnew-wicklow/4464667

Looks in great condition generally, and according to google maps 1.5 hour commute to Dublin. This is just one of many I found within your budget.

Have to pass the time during lockdown somehow!

dawanda · 10-01-2021 4:11pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/1-glenview-gorey-road-carnew-wicklow/4464667

Looks in great condition generally, and according to google maps 1.5 hour commute to Dublin. This is just one of many I found within your budget.

Have to pass the time during lockdown somehow!

Never saw this side, I thought daft.ie was the only one (and rent.ie, but same company). Thank you!

dawanda · 10-01-2021 4:16pm

Is it expensive to update a house with an E or even worse energy rating?

Marcusm · 10-01-2021 4:40pm

dawanda wrote: »

Thank you, that's very interesting. Any idea how to find it from the comfort of my home what areas this might apply to?
I feel like pretty much everywhere expect Dublin is very small (coming from Germany, I guess), so I'm not sure I would feel the difference between, say, Gorey and outside Baltinglass (to name two random places). But I need a stable wifi connection for work and from what I read this can be an issue in Ireland's more rural areas.

Gosh, I wish my work were in Donegal. Beautiful houses there on daft.

There would be a worldof difference between living outside Gorey, a large and growing town with facilities serving amuch greater area than the town itself and Baltinglass, a small bnut pretty village with few local facilities than nice countryside.

More importantly, one is close to a motorway and the other close to a two lane road to Dublin. There would be a world of difference vis a vis commuting unless you were heading to Citywest, Parkwest or one of those areas.

Do you intend to live an isolated lifestyle?

Do a daft or myhome search fro properties with a minimum of 2 beds in Wicklow and Wexford for up to EUR200k and see what'savailable.

dawanda · 10-01-2021 4:48pm

Marcusm wrote: »

There would be a worldof difference between living outside Gorey, a large and growing town with facilities serving amuch greater area than the town itself and Baltinglass, a small bnut pretty village with few local facilities than nice countryside.

More importantly, one is close to a motorway and the other close to a two lane road to Dublin. There would be a world of difference vis a vis commuting unless you were heading to Citywest, Parkwest or one of those areas.

Do you intend to live an isolated lifestyle?

Do a daft or myhome search fro properties with a minimum of 2 beds in Wicklow and Wexford for up to EUR200k and see what'savailable.

Well, I already feel very isolated living in Bray, so right now I can't see any difference. I don't have family or family ties in any way here, so it's difficult. I need to commute to Stillorgan. It's definitely tricky. I think if I have a really nice house I'll be ok not having any coffee shops or whereever I would like to go around.

Mrs OBumble · 10-01-2021 4:54pm

How old are you? Do you have a partner, or much chance of getting one? Do you expect to have kids?

These factors should be considered before you commit to a mortgage.

Building a house as a non-local?

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