Trump v Biden 2020,The insurrection (pt 6) Read OP

Sonics2k · 08-01-2021 11:06AM

Tony EH wrote: »

"Collusion" is a strong word though. Colluding in what? A coup? The murder of elected representatives? Or breaking into a public building?

I don't really see evidence for any of the the above to be honest. I figure it was more to do with a safety valve response more than anything else. Let the fools have their 15 minutes of fame and then tell them to bugger off home. A dangerous game, no doubt. But a lot less dangerous than opening up on a crowd of nutters.

There was no crush, the cops didn't move back to stop a panic. Footage is widely available of cops opening the barriers and encouraging them to move in.

Police are supposed to be neutral, to uphold the law and keep the peace. To Protect and Serve as the yanks love.

Over the years there have been many protests at Capitol Hill. In every other case the police have removed people with force, including the religious peaceful protesters and even a group of literally disabled people who were peacefully protesting during the healthcare debate.

https://dcist.com/story/17/06/22/police-remove-disabled-demonstrator/

Meanwhile a group of cops willingly allowed a large amount of Trumps supporters in, with full knowledge that these guys were proudly armed and included a large number of -literal- neo nazi's.

Professor Moriarty · 08-01-2021 11:06AM

duploelabs wrote: »

While that may be the case, trump always looks for loyalty with his appointees, a new appointee may not be 'in on it' but they may not take the call if told not to by himself

If that was the case, the appointee is very stupid to do his bidding on such matters. There is a case to be made for treason in that scenario.

everlast75 · 08-01-2021 11:08AM

Idiots downplaying what happened.

They do know they are planning the same for the 20th?

Trump *will* be forced to do whatever is necessary to stop this happening again, whether it is resign or be removed. That latest video is the smallest first step, but he will be forced to do much more. It will be humiliating for him.

He's going to push back. You can see those little struggles, where he insists he was robbed is an example while asking for calm.

The next 2 weeks are going to be ****ing awful for him, and I love to see it.

Professor Moriarty · 08-01-2021 11:09AM

swampgas wrote: »

The vast majority of the mob may be that - useful idiots - but that doesn't mean that there aren't people inside the government and agencies willing to facilitate it in whatever way they can. I've worked with otherwise sane Americans who genuinely are afraid of the Dems and who would be tempted to go along with a Trump coup if it meant "Republican for ever" government.

I'm sure there are people like that. But there are infinitely more people who would see the constitution as most important. Anybody within the government and security agencies who facilitated this (and wouldn't think there are many) are in serious trouble if found out.

Sonics2k · 08-01-2021 11:11AM

everlast75 wrote: »

Idiots downplaying what happened.

They do know they are planning the same for the 20th?

Trump *will* be forced to do whatever is necessary to stop this happening again, whether it is resign or be removed. That latest video is the smallest first step, but he will be forced to do much more. It will be humiliating for him.

He's going to push back. You can see those little struggles, where he insists he was robbed is an example while asking for calm.

The next 2 weeks are going to be ****ing awful for him, and I love to see it.

I give it at best a week before he's back to the madness he was shouting last week.

Remember earlier this year when people got all happy because he gave a decent, thoughtful speech and he was finally being more Presidential. That last like 3 days.

swampgas · 08-01-2021 11:13AM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I'm sure there are people like that. But there are infinitely more people who would see the constitution as most important. Anybody within the government and security agencies who facilitated this (and wouldn't think there are many) are in serious trouble if found out.

Based on my own conversations, I'm not so sure. The US is very badly polarised, and siege-mentality thinking is common. This (in people minds) is about survival - literal survival and survival of their way of life. If the constitution doesn't protect them (in their own minds) then the constitution must be ignored.

*edit - all anecdotal and based on a relatively small sample

Professor Moriarty · 08-01-2021 11:13AM

everlast75 wrote: »

Idiots downplaying what happened.

They do know they are planning the same for the 20th?

Trump *will* be forced to do whatever is necessary to stop this happening again, whether it is resign or be removed. That latest video is the smallest first step, but he will be forced to do much more. It will be humiliating for him.

He's going to push back. You can see those little struggles, where he insists he was robbed is an example while asking for calm.

The next 2 weeks are going to be ****ing awful for him, and I love to see it.

It will be death by a thousand cuts as appointees abandon him and his powers are stripped away.

yagan · 08-01-2021 11:16AM

I wouldn't be surprised if Trump leaves the White House in a body bag.

Professor Moriarty · 08-01-2021 11:17AM

swampgas wrote: »

Based on my own conversations, I'm not so sure. The US if very badly polarised, and siege-mentality thinking is common. This (in people minds) is about survival - literal survival and survival of their way of life. If the constitution doesn't protect them (in their own minds) then the constitution must be ignored.

I think they are a significant but small minority. Biden's biggest task is to bring these people back into the fold. Otherwise domestic terrorism will flourish. However, if it flourishes, it will alienate many of these diehards.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 08-01-2021 11:18AM

I went down a Twitter rabbit hole last night out of curiosity of people convinced that unimpeachable evidence that the US election was rigged is poised to be exposed. Seems strange to sit on such apparent smoking gun evidence, doesn’t it? Time’s a-wastin’, internet cranks. The claim is that the, urgh, MSM is suppressing this evidence. Excuses, excuses.

flazio · 08-01-2021 11:19AM

everlast75 wrote: »

Idiots downplaying what happened.

They do know they are planning the same for the 20th?

Trump *will* be forced to do whatever is necessary to stop this happening again, whether it is resign or be removed. That latest video is the smallest first step, but he will be forced to do much more. It will be humiliating for him.

He's going to push back. You can see those little struggles, where he insists he was robbed is an example while asking for calm.

The next 2 weeks are going to be ****ing awful for him, and I love to see it.

Making you no better than him if I'm honest.

The idea makes me sick in my stomach but I believe it deserves to be considered. Because the Biden administration has 80 million Trump voters to govern for the next 4 years, hopefully more, it might be prudent to consider Biden giving Trump a pardon in order to peacefully reduce the risk of another riot.

duploelabs · 08-01-2021 11:20AM

yagan wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised if Trump leaves the White House in a body bag.

Parse that out

robinph · 08-01-2021 11:20AM

yagan wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised if Trump leaves the White House in a body bag.

Who, what, how is that going to happen?

Unless he catches Covid19 again in the next week of course.

swampgas · 08-01-2021 11:21AM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I think they are a significant but small minority. Biden's biggest task is to bring these people back into the fold. Otherwise domestic terrorism will flourish. However, if it flourishes, it will alienate many of these diehards.

I agree, a small minority, but that may be enough to start a coup.

IMO the only way this stops is a growth in middle ground bipartisanship, and I don't have much hope of that emerging for a long time yet. The Republicans have been toxic to US politics for decades, I don't think the Dems should be over-eager to offer the olive branch.

yagan · 08-01-2021 11:21AM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I think they are a significant but small minority. Biden's biggest task is to bring these people back into the fold. Otherwise domestic terrorism will flourish. However, if it flourishes, it will alienate many of these diehards.

They were always there, many never voted before Trump.

Once Trump's gone expect lots of deradicalisation of the internet.

ohnonotgmail · 08-01-2021 11:22AM

flazio wrote: »

Making you no better than him if I'm honest.

The idea makes me sick in my stomach but I believe it deserves to be considered. Because the Biden administration has 80 million Trump voters to govern for the next 4 years, hopefully more, it might be prudent to consider Biden giving Trump a pardon in order to peacefully reduce the risk of another riot.

both sides.

everlast75 · 08-01-2021 11:24AM

flazio wrote: »

Making you no better than him if I'm honest

I couldn't give two sh1ts what you think of me, if I'm honest

yagan · 08-01-2021 11:24AM

robinph wrote: »

Who, what, how is that going to happen?

Unless he catches Covid19 again in the next week of course.

Trump's modus operandi is to never back down, so a few sane words today can be trampled by mad ravings tomorrow. The people he loved failed to take the senate, but if they start pledging to surround the White House he will not discourage them, even if it makes the White House his tomb.

Mike Murdock · 08-01-2021 11:26AM

yagan wrote: »

They were always there, many never voted before Trump.

Once Trump's gone expect lots of deradicalisation of the internet.

Who comes next will be interesting.

Dan Crenshaw and Tom Cotton are two to watch for at the next election. Broadly supported a lot of Trump's policies, and are more refined in how they deal with the media.

Because they are ex-military and loathe a lot of the Progressives in the DNC, they'd be two who would appeal to Trump supporters.

Cotton, in particular, was extremely vocal about calling in the National Guard straight away during the riots in the summer, to crack skulls and restore order.

Drumpot · 08-01-2021 11:26AM

flazio wrote: »

Making you no better than him if I'm honest.

The idea makes me sick in my stomach but I believe it deserves to be considered. Because the Biden administration has 80 million Trump voters to govern for the next 4 years, hopefully more, it might be prudent to consider Biden giving Trump a pardon in order to peacefully reduce the risk of another riot.

I think Trump needs to be humiliated in a legal , legitimate fashion and the authorities should go after him hard to ruin what little reputation he has left. I don’t see the benefit of appeasing the minority Trump base within the Republican Party. They need to know that being idiots has ramifications. Following somebody who is a chronic liar is unwise.

He’s taken a never surrender attitude which his fans love, why would they respect leniency towards him? My bigger concern Is a more intelligent, insidious character seeing how vulnerable the states are to fascist ideals/influence. Forget the small base of Trump fans, absolutely hammer Trump and lock up those who stormed the capital for a savage amount of time to make the message clear , any attack on democracy will not be tolerated.

I think these events have shown how easy and quickly a free country can allow fascism to infect its nation. I’d imagine no country really believes it will go down the Hitler route until it’s too late. Appeasement to fascists doesn’t work, ask Neville chamberlain.

joe40 · 08-01-2021 11:29AM

Is there any chance that the inauguration will be behind closed doors, but televised.

Even apart from the risk of violence, having 100s of thousands of people in washinton during a global pandemic, surely isn't wise.

I would be gutted, Biden deserves a great inauguration, but how could it be done safely with pandemic.

Mitch Connor · 08-01-2021 11:29AM

Will the republicans want Trump to run in 24? Either as their candidate or an independent?

If he isn't disqualified from running in 24, he is going to dominate their political discourse over the next 4 years.

08-01-2021 11:29AM

Freedom of speech should not equate to being able to make threats under pseudonyms on the Internet or indeed without an alias.

The writing was on the wall on Parler and Twitter for what occurred on Wednesday. It was staring them in the face.

A major national security failure. They are very very lucky it was a not a lot worse and many more were not killed. Action needs to be taken for sure to prevent this from happening again and evidently a major overhaul of law enforcement.

Mitch Connor · 08-01-2021 11:30AM

joe40 wrote: »

Is there any chance that the inauguration will be behind closed doors, but televised.

Even apart from the risk of violence, having 100s of thousands of people in washinton during a global pandemic, surely isn't wise.

I would be gutted, Biden deserves a great inauguration, but how could it be done safely with pandemic.

Hasn't Biden already said it will be a lower key affair because of Covid?

08-01-2021 11:31AM

flazio wrote: »

80 million Trump voters.

Every time I see this statistic, it increases by five million.

hotmail.com · 08-01-2021 11:32AM

I see CNN reported that poor policeman''s death 4 hours before he died.

joe40 · 08-01-2021 11:33AM

Drumpot wrote: »

I think Trump needs to be humiliated in a legal , legitimate fashion and the authorities should go after him hard to ruin what little reputation he has left. I don’t see the benefit of appeasing the minority Trump base within the Republican Party. They need to know that being idiots has ramifications. Following somebody who is a chronic liar is unwise.

He’s taken a never surrender attitude which his fans love, why would they respect leniency towards him? My bigger concern Is a more intelligent, insidious character seeing how vulnerable the states are to fascist ideals/influence. Forget the small base of Trump fans, absolutely hammer Trump and lock up those who stormed the capital for a savage amount of time to make the message clear , any attack on democracy will not be tolerated.

I think these events have shown how easy and quickly a free country can allow fascism to infect its nation. I’d imagine no country really believes it will go down the Hitler route until it’s too late. Appeasement to fascists doesn’t work, ask Neville chamberlain.

Yeah I agree with that. The events of this week cannot be justified in any way, and have led directly to the death of a police officer. There is no point pandering to his extremist base. I don't think they are that powerful anyway. Many of the millions who voted for Trump are just anti Biden vote, not necessarily strong pro Trump. The extent of that is unknown in all this though.

Professor Moriarty · 08-01-2021 11:37AM

yagan wrote: »

They were always there, many never voted before Trump.

Once Trump's gone expect lots of deradicalisation of the internet.

I hope you're right!

Sonics2k · 08-01-2021 11:37AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Will the republicans want Trump to run in 24? Either as their candidate or an independent?

If he isn't disqualified from running in 24, he is going to dominate their political discourse over the next 4 years.

Ironically, Trump will then be 78 years old. His supporters (and Trump) have both been claiming that Biden was too old to run for President at 78 years old.

jill_valentine · 08-01-2021 11:38AM

hotmail.com wrote: »

I see CNN reported that poor policeman''s death 4 hours before he died.

It is more likely they were informed through their face to face channels, but the family hadn't been officially notified yet.

Trump v Biden 2020,The insurrection (pt 6) Read OP

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