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Covid 19 Part XXXI-187,554 ROI (2,970 deaths) 100,319 NI (1,730 deaths)(24/01)Read OP

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  • #1292
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,962 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    copeyhagen wrote: »
    locking down the socialising of 5 million people for best part of 9 months, then opening it back up for the busy season..what else could the outcome have been, especially if 50% of the people are asymptomatic, as has been suggested.

    maybe doing what the rest of Europe done and actually ****ing opening up their economy for the ebst aprt of a Year, wouldnt have seen this rush of socialising for Xmas.

    so their mistake was already put in place when they decided to keep so much restricted for so much of the Year.

    The daily cases number went up over 20 times in a month.

    Unfortunately too many thought "it will be grand" and now it's completely out of control.

    Perfect storm of lots of people going out for Christmas meet-ups in the community to restaurants where they were allowed stay as long as they want, other shops etc and then bring it back to large extended family groupings at Christmas. Triple whammy with some doing some more spreading at new year.

    This was evidenced by significant numbers reporting 20 to 30 close contacts last week ( the ones who told the truth)

    Unclear how much of an effect the returning irish from abroad had but obviously added to it.

    It wasn't grand.


  • #1293
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,009 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    30 is more or less the trigger point where elements of non covid care get cancelled

    280ish is capacity (includes non covid)
    350 is surge capacity (closed operating theaters become additional icu rooms)
    100 more in private hospitals. I believe we can access 25% of that under the latest deal.

    This is capacity when there are just a few infectious patients in ICU who can be isolated in the side rooms .
    Once there are more than that ICU areas have to be split and separated which reduces capacity as regards space, staffing and resources .
    Think about one ICU unit with one team if doctors and nurses caring for patients , besides individual nurses caring for individual patients .
    We now need two teams of doctors , anaesthetists, nurses accessing supplies and drugs , physios , porters and hcas, as well as two physical areas divided .
    More Covid patients admitted and in ICU , less resources available .


  • #1294
    TonyMaloney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭TonyMaloney


    eigrod wrote: »
    A tiny bit of further corroboration on this. Still way too early to think any sort of trend is developing though

    I think it's looking very good. Lots of cases still to come soon via backlog, but hopefully we'll see a nice drop in positive swabs soon.
    The drop can be pretty precipitous too, hopefully. We'll need that as it's a long way down from here and we really can't afford to hang around in the 4 to 6 thousand cases per day zone for long.


  • #1295
    Irish Steve
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    Endintheclowns wrote: »
    The DUP didn't force people to come home from London, Birmingham, NY etc...on direct flights before Xmas nor are they responsible for families cramming into houses over the holiday period here.

    Let's not pretend or spin it's the DUP's fault we are in this position. It seems Irish people want to blame everyone but themselves.

    The best way to paraphrase your reply to the earlier post is for someone to ask "is it wet or dry outside", and you respond "the clouds are pink".

    What the citizens of Ireland did or did not do was nothing to do with the post you quoted, which (validly) pointed out that one of the overarching problems of the Covid situation viz a viz the North is that even if it was 100% proven that the Southern response to the problem would solve it, the DUP would reject it because of historic and backward looking ideology, which has been the breaking of so much related to Northern Politics for longer than I care to remember.

    A complelely invisible and porous border, combined with a reckless approach to managing Covid has resulted in case numbers in NI that were off the scale, and that has only recently been surpassed here as a result of the incredible antics that went on here during December.

    That, and the much earier arrival of the "UK variant" has resulted in figures that are only appalling in terms of the consequences for many families and life styles, a much larger portion of 2021 is now written off for things like hospitality and the like, as well as large sporting events and concerts, and the reasons are unfortunately all too clear, the message was a mixed message, and not clear, and too many people chose to take the freedoms they were given to excess, with the result being the numbers we're now seeing in hospitals and intensive care units.

    A whole island response to Covid would be a massive help to manging it, but it's unlikely to happen any time soon, so we're stuck with having to take a second best approach to the problem, and that's not ideal, given the numbers of cases it's resulting in.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • #1296
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Vaccines don’t make influenza disappear either , we accept the mortality rate from influenza. The same will apply to Covid. I won’t labour the point further. If you believe restrictions are here to stay I won’t try and convince you otherwise.

    We also live with post viral fatigue and other post viral symptoms. My mother couldn’t get out of bed for over 3 months a few years ago after having the flu. Long flu is just as much a thing as long Covid and we don’t lock down or mask up for it


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  • #1297
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,009 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    seamus wrote: »
    IIRC in April the ICU capacity leased from the private sector was to be used exclusively for non-covid patients.

    And that is what they want to continue with this time .
    Otherwise they will compromise the 75% capacity they have left .


  • #1298
    Gruffalux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    Wolf359f wrote: »
    Foot and mouth restricted livestock crossing the border not people. There was already checks on livestock crossing between GB and Ireland, so from an agriculture point of view the island was treated as one. Movement of people is a completely different ballgame.

    There were massive restrictions on people. Not just animals, whose handling had huge restrictions also. For weeks if not months there were full teams of people on every main border crossing. The teams had complete protective clothing. They had big tankers full of disfectant. They sprayed your whole car underbody every time you crossed the border. The waterways were ruined by the amount of spray used copiously over a prolonged period. Everyone in car had to get out and walk on mats under supervision. When you got your milk in the shop and came back you had the same exact rigmarole all over again. There were always big tailbacks. Smaller crossings were closed. Every farm gate had huge signs and permitted no entry to agricultural holdings. The effort was sustained and fastidious. For cattle.
    It is amazing how a human disease thay has brought society to a halt has been far more shoddily handled.


  • #1299
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,962 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    eigrod wrote: »
    A tiny bit of further corroboration on this. Still way too early to think any sort of trend is developing though

    https://twitter.com/todowd/status/1347161869367324672?s=21

    Can only hope that the surge will start to burn out

    Two weeks from Christmas day tomorrow


  • #1300
    TonyMaloney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭TonyMaloney


    They're gaslighting us now.

    https://twitter.com/PTHosford/status/1347098789253931009?s=20


  • #1301
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,756 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    TonyMaloney wrote: »
    They're gaslighting us now.

    https://twitter.com/PTHosford/status/1347098789253931009?s=20

    they did nothing for health care workers with regards to childcare in the first lockdown...

    what exactly is he referring to?


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  • #1302
    bb1234567
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,513 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    Israel has vaccinated 11.5x times larger % of their population than the country with the second highest rate of vaccination in the world, UK.

    How is Israel doing it??


  • #1303
    Akabusi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,136 ✭✭✭Akabusi


    TonyMaloney wrote: »
    They're gaslighting us now.

    https://twitter.com/PTHosford/status/1347098789253931009?s=20

    Donnelly has shown he will say anything to make himself look better during this. Remember these lies when the next election comes around.


  • #1304
    Wolf359f
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    Gruffalux wrote: »
    There were massive restrictions on people. Not just animals, whose handling had huge restrictions also. For weeks if not months there were full teams of people on every main border crossing. The teams had complete protective clothing. They had big tankers full of disfectant. They sprayed your whole car underbody every time you crossed the border. The waterways were ruined by the amount of spray used copiously over a prolonged period. Everyone in car had to get out and walk on mats under supervision. When you got your milk in the shop and came back you had the same exact rigmarole all over again. There were always big tailbacks. Smaller crossings were closed. Every farm gate had huge signs and permitted no entry to agricultural holdings. The effort was sustained and fastidious. For cattle.
    It is amazing how a human disease thay has brought society to a halt has been far more shoddily handled.

    Border was open for people, key difference there. You mention massive restrictions, walking on a disinfectant mat and then continue on your way. That's what you consider massive restrictions?


  • #1305
    TonyMaloney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭TonyMaloney


    lawred2 wrote: »
    they did nothing for health care workers with regards to childcare in the first lockdown...

    what exactly is he referring to?

    **** knows.
    They also did not closely follow NPHET advice in December. They disregarded it.


  • #1306
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,943 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    glasso wrote: »
    Can only hope that the surge will start to burn out

    Two weeks from Christmas day tomorrow

    Maybe another 'back to work' surge in a week or two?


  • #1307
    xhomelezz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,094 ✭✭✭xhomelezz


    Wolf359f wrote: »
    Border was open for people, key difference there. You mention massive restrictions, walking on a disinfectant mat and then continue on your way. That's what you consider massive restrictions?

    Well at least that post you referring to shows it's possible to control the border..


  • #1308
    TonyMaloney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭TonyMaloney


    Akabusi wrote: »
    Donnelly has shown he will say anything to make himself look better during this. Remember these lies when the next election comes around.

    I think it'll be a fascinating GE. Once this coalition falls apart we might find out who were the biggest culprits in messing it all up.


  • #1309
    tikkahunter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭tikkahunter


    bb1234567 wrote: »
    Israel has vaccinated 11.5x times larger % of their population than the country with the second highest rate of vaccination in the world, UK.

    How is Israel doing it??
    paying 60 quid a shot instead of 15-20 then they went to the most influential people in all the communities and got them to get the shot live on TV. Huge buy in to it as a result.


  • #1310
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    bb1234567 wrote: »
    Israel has vaccinated 11.5x times larger % of their population than the country with the second highest rate of vaccination in the world, UK.

    How is Israel doing it??
    Money!

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-israel-vaccination/pizza-sized-boxes-and-paying-a-premium-israels-covid-19-vaccine-rollout-idUSKBN29B0KJ


  • #1311
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    bb1234567 wrote: »
    Israel has vaccinated 11.5x times larger % of their population than the country with the second highest rate of vaccination in the world, UK.

    How is Israel doing it??
    Money.

    Very, very early on, Israel paid Pfizer twice the going rate for the vaccine and promised a rapid roll-out of the vaccine so that large-population data could be gathered quickly.

    Israel has a huge military-industrial complex capable of delivering this kind of programme.

    They didn't come in late to the game and suddenly snap up a load of doses.

    We could in theory have done this too, but I think it would have been counter-productive here. A rapid vaccination programme using a vaccine that had only been approved by the HPRA and not the EMA, would have led to a lot of skepticism and resistance. IMHO.


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  • #1312
    Jim_Hodge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,155 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Gruffalux wrote: »
    There were massive restrictions on people. Not just animals, whose handling had huge restrictions also. For weeks if not months there were full teams of people on every main border crossing. The teams had complete protective clothing. They had big tankers full of disfectant. They sprayed your whole car underbody every time you crossed the border. The waterways were ruined by the amount of spray used copiously over a prolonged period. Everyone in car had to get out and walk on mats under supervision. When you got your milk in the shop and came back you had the same exact rigmarole all over again. There were always big tailbacks. Smaller crossings were closed. Every farm gate had huge signs and permitted no entry to agricultural holdings. The effort was sustained and fastidious. For cattle.
    It is amazing how a human disease thay has brought society to a halt has been far more shoddily handled.

    We live on the border. Yes vehicles were sprayed but not once had we to get out and walk on the disinfectant mats. We only had to do that entering a farm. No movement of people was restricted and we went to and from work on a daily basis as usual.


  • #1313
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,962 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    bb1234567 wrote: »
    Israel has vaccinated 11.5x times larger % of their population than the country with the second highest rate of vaccination in the world, UK.

    How is Israel doing it??

    They weren't tied up in the crappy EU purchasing scheme (which for example had to put in hundreds of millions of orders for a French vaccine that is effectively useless because at best, if it works won't be available until near end 2021, just to "spread the orders around").

    They paid high prices as they figured that economically it will be worth it

    They have a nimble health system which has 4 bodies that are more efficient as they compete for gov and private funds as opposed to the .. HSE type system

    Going 7 days a week, 24 hours a day


  • #1314
    Funsterdelux
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,376 ✭✭✭Funsterdelux


    How is the likes of Rathlin Island being treated by the North? Are people allowed come and go or is it just residents only?


  • #1315
    Endintheclowns
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 138 ✭✭Endintheclowns


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Money!

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-israel-vaccination/pizza-sized-boxes-and-paying-a-premium-israels-covid-19-vaccine-rollout-idUSKBN29B0KJ

    Whatever they paid it will have been worth it whilst Ireland is interested in being the bestest little boy in class and going the EU route. Funny how the Germans where caught going on a solo run buying up vaccines and it hardly got a mention here.


  • #1316
    Cluedo Monopoly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,466 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    And I have already said why similar " data" eg trolley watch does not apply in this context .
    Spookwoman publishes the trolley watch figures every evening if that is what you are looking for .
    While it shows pressure on beds in a general sense , it is not the same once general care is being curtailed to make space for Covid patients.
    These patients need isolation so cannot be allowed to just gather on trolleys or chairs in A&E.
    If you don't understand this principle , you are just calling for " data ", but it is a pointless excercise without being able to apply it .

    Ok I'll bite once more. Explain your '10 times worse' comment in the context of this tweet

    https://twitter.com/paulreiddublin/status/1346739705371643904

    What are we 10 times worse than?

    We all know it's more serious then ever before but we need to be careful with the data points because the numbers will get worse.
    We cant simply say we are "10 times worse" at the first sign of capacity issues.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • #1317
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    Endintheclowns wrote: »
    Whatever they paid it will have been worth it whilst Ireland is interested in being the bestest little boy in class and going the EU route. Funny how the Germans where caught going on a solo run buying up vaccines and it hardly got a mention here.

    Because none of their solo run vaccines will be available until after every vaccine in the EU order arrives.

    The other thing with Israel is that they approved early (which was a risk) and they placed their order early. A full 4 months before the EU placed an order with Pfizer.


  • #1318
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,009 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Pitch n Putt wrote: »
    With a population of 5 million and all the billions pumped into the system we should be well able to cope with 300 icu beds and not be panicked when we get to 50 beds occupied.

    It’s a shambles really.

    You do realise that when they talk about 50 or even 88 in ICU , that is just Covid patients ? :)
    About 30 beds left out of 287 total. Any extra will be surge capacity into operating theatres and recovery areas while cancelling surgeries that would have required those areas .


  • #1319
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    Israel are an alpha country. Ireland is a beta country, trying to impress others.

    Israel are Chads. Ireland are soyboys.


  • #1320
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    I'll try one more time :pac:

    Anyone know?

    What does this mean in relation to allowed construction? FB & intel?

    certain large construction projects in the exporting / FDI sector based on set criteria


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  • #1321
    Cluedo Monopoly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,466 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Akabusi wrote: »
    Donnelly has shown he will say anything to make himself look better during this. Remember these lies when the next election comes around.

    I don't think he has a hope of getting re-elected.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



This discussion has been closed.
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