Liverpool FC Team Talk, Gossip, Rumours 2020/2021

Buddy97mm · 05-01-2021 04:04PM

Decisions are certainly not in our favour this season. In the last three (disappointing) games, we have seen no foul given when WBA attacker climbed all over Fabinho for their equaliser, no foul given when Newcastle keeper quite clearly pulled back Mane, and last night no handball given (may have been questionable), no foul on Mane by KWP (should have been penalty) and no free given for Walcott's two footed tackle just below the knee of Milner. All of these were apparently looked at by VAR who deemed the referee's decision ok. Previous post has shown how VAR has been very unkind to us.

I really don't believe there is any conspiracy here, but do wonder if as a team, we are too naive and passive in situations like those mentioned - we never surround the referee clamouring for a decision to go our way (a la Mourinho team) nor do we seek the most of any fouls committed against us - Mane stayed on his feet when grabbed by Darlow and even last night stayed on his feet initially when fouled by KWP, going to ground seconds later as an afterthought. There were numerous other instances last night where Mane was fouled by KWP, Salah was headlocked, etc., but we seem to be too honest in these situations, which is commendable in many respects but is ultimately doing us no favours. In the modern game, it appears that to get a free given to you, it is not enough to be fouled, you must make the most of this foul by going to ground quickly and ideally accompany this with a blood curdling shriek of pain (heard all the more in past few months). It actually also helps if you are a British player (Kane, Grealish, etc.) or indeed an admired technical player (DeBruyne, Fernandes, Pogba, etc.) rather than one of those nippy foreigners (Mane, Salah) who apparently are rarely fouled.

To provide some context, in our last three games vs WBA, Newcastle and Southampton, Liverpool averaged 73% possession during those games. One would expect that with that amount of possession, plus the fact that we spend most of those games on the front foot, attacking rather than defending, that you would receive more frees than the opposition. Yet, over the three games we apparently committed twice as many fouls as the opposition, committing an average of 11 fouls per game compared to opponent's 6 per game. In addition, we received an average of 2 yellow cards per game compared to opponents one. This to me is bizarre, yet it is borne out further by stats for the season overall, which show that Liverpool are the third highest team in terms of number of fouls committed, yet 17th in the division in terms of frees received for fouls by the opposition.

These stats suggest that either we are a quite dirty team, strategically committing twice as many fouls on teams who have a quarter of the possession, which is really hard to see and accept; I cannot think of one player in the current team who I would consider remotely dirty or physical, indeed I wish we had someone who would give us more of a bite, as I think we lack a little in that area. The more realistic interpretation in my view is that we are naive in terms of seeking to win frees, whilst opponents make the most of every challenge and tackle, to ensure they maximise the frees they receive.

yourdeadwright · 05-01-2021 04:11PM

Any links to CB today ?
We need something to give the lads a lift a new arrival along with Thiago, Naby and Jota coming back into fitness would be nice,

I know it sounds pessimistic but I worry for our top four chances without a new CB, We have no divine right to near the top of the table and we need to start winning football matches again ASAP

Agent Coulson · 05-01-2021 04:16PM

Liam Miller has joined Charlton on loan till the end of the season.

If he didn't want £400k a week and his agent wanting £10m in fees I'd say go all out for Alaba.

Ashley Williams is a free agent at center back :pac::p

KevRossi · 05-01-2021 04:32PM

theoneeyedman wrote: »

It's been open season on the 2 speed merchants recently, particularly Mane. Been kicked, pulled, dragged, knocked continuously by most teams, especially over the last 6 to 8 weeks. Zero protection from the referees.....

Shearer, Lineker and Co. did their work IMO. Always focusing on the two of them 'diving'. I reckon that's why they aren't getting the decisions. All players throw themselves on the ground, some are cleverer at it than others. PL refs usually don't like the theatrics. They need to learn off Kane if they're going down.

Agent Coulson wrote: »

If he didn't want £400k a week and his agent wanting £10m in fees I'd say go all out for Alaba.

Kicker reported that Alaba has stated that he wants to finish the season with Bayern. I doubt they'll sell him as he'd be a loss to them if they can't find a replacement. They have their eye on another CL as they'll probably walk the Bundesliga.

They may be tempted with an offer of €15 million, I'd be prepared to buy him for that.

KevRossi · 05-01-2021 04:40PM

Kicker reported that Alaba's manager Pini Zahavi wanted €125 million in wages for a 5 year contract and that he gets an 8 figure sum as commission. Hoeness and Salihamidzic threw Zahavi out of the meeting. And rightly said the extra few million will not make Alaba any happier.

brevity · 05-01-2021 04:41PM

Buddy97mm wrote: »

Decisions are certainly not in our favour this season. In the last three (disappointing) games, we have seen no foul given when WBA attacker climbed all over Fabinho for their equaliser, no foul given when Newcastle keeper quite clearly pulled back Mane, and last night no handball given (may have been questionable), no foul on Mane by KWP (should have been penalty) and no free given for Walcott's two footed tackle just below the knee of Milner. All of these were apparently looked at by VAR who deemed the referee's decision ok. Previous post has shown how VAR has been very unkind to us.

I really don't believe there is any conspiracy here, but do wonder if as a team, we are too naive and passive in situations like those mentioned - we never surround the referee clamouring for a decision to go our way (a la Mourinho team) nor do we seek the most of any fouls committed against us - Mane stayed on his feet when grabbed by Darlow and even last night stayed on his feet initially when fouled by KWP, going to ground seconds later as an afterthought. There were numerous other instances last night where Mane was fouled by KWP, Salah was headlocked, etc., but we seem to be too honest in these situations, which is commendable in many respects but is ultimately doing us no favours. In the modern game, it appears that to get a free given to you, it is not enough to be fouled, you must make the most of this foul by going to ground quickly and ideally accompany this with a blood curdling shriek of pain (heard all the more in past few months). It actually also helps if you are a British player (Kane, Grealish, etc.) or indeed an admired technical player (DeBruyne, Fernandes, Pogba, etc.) rather than one of those nippy foreigners (Mane, Salah) who apparently are rarely fouled.

To provide some context, in our last three games vs WBA, Newcastle and Southampton, Liverpool averaged 73% possession during those games. One would expect that with that amount of possession, plus the fact that we spend most of those games on the front foot, attacking rather than defending, that you would receive more frees than the opposition. Yet, over the three games we apparently committed twice as many fouls as the opposition, committing an average of 11 fouls per game compared to opponent's 6 per game. In addition, we received an average of 2 yellow cards per game compared to opponents one. This to me is bizarre, yet it is borne out further by stats for the season overall, which show that Liverpool are the third highest team in terms of number of fouls committed, yet 17th in the division in terms of frees received for fouls by the opposition.

These stats suggest that either we are a quite dirty team, strategically committing twice as many fouls on teams who have a quarter of the possession, which is really hard to see and accept; I cannot think of one player in the current team who I would consider remotely dirty or physical, indeed I wish we had someone who would give us more of a bite, as I think we lack a little in that area. The more realistic interpretation in my view is that we are naive in terms of seeking to win frees, whilst opponents make the most of every challenge and tackle, to ensure they maximise the frees they receive.

I've said before that Klopp doesn't want to have people going down easy or engaging in the dark arts. If Mane or Salah were on a different team I think their behaviour would be very different. I can also imagine Henderson, Milner and Robbo to be a bit more aggressive in their protests with the ref if the were in a different team

I think he expects the officials to do their job competently. It's up for discussion whether or not they are.

Markitron · 05-01-2021 04:42PM

KevRossi wrote: »

They need to learn off Kane if they're going down.

No amount of learning will change their nationality

chicorytip · 05-01-2021 04:54PM

brevity wrote: »

I've said before that Klopp doesn't want to have people going down easy or engaging in the dark arts. If Mane or Salah were on a different team I think their behaviour would be very different. I can also imagine Henderson, Milner and Robbo to be a bit more aggressive in their protests with the ref if the were in a different team

I think he expects the officials to do their job competently. It's up for discussion whether or not they are.

Last season Salah was the master of that particular dark art. Refs are now copping on with regard to him. There was no obvious penalty claim last night. I don't understand why Klopp is alleging bias. You get some, others you don't. It's the same for every team. I thought Henderson did very well. Mane at least was trying, Salah seemed disinterested.

yourdeadwright · 05-01-2021 04:59PM

chicorytip wrote: »

Last season Salah was the master of that particular dark art. Refs are now copping on with regard to him. There was no obvious penalty claim last night. I don't understand why Klopp is alleging bias. You get some, others you don't. It's the same for every team. I thought Henderson did very well. Mane at least was trying, Salah seemed disinterested.

Really your man clearly took out Mane back leg with his back leg, Sky focused on the foot he went for the ball with but it was the other foot that caught the back of Manes calf,

The handball I have no idea what the rules are any ore but for me that type of one was always a penalty, Hand on to the side and ball smacked his hand , More of a peno than the one City got against us ,

Also why was Armstrong allowed foul Henderson for there goal ? I noticed it at the time and Ing's mentioned it after there plan was to grab and push one of the line back so he'd be on side, Not sure why its allowed

Also for the of foul they gave against Salah on the keeper , you know you have VAR why not wait a second see if we score and then you can check Var if its valid ? Ref was very very quick to blow against us but not against them ,

The Milner one how the ref or linesman didn't see that is beyond me ,

Knex* · 05-01-2021 05:13PM

We barely switch the play anymore. I don't know if that's largely down to VVD not being in the team, a change in tactics, or something else. But I'd love to see the stats for the last 3 games in how many times we switched the ball from one flank to the other.

Trent had a nice one last night, but that was it really. Seems like it has massively reduced in recent weeks, which makes it far easier for a defence to just sit where they are and stay compact.

I think the threat of the long ball is what has helped us become the side that we are over the past few years. Whether its switching play, or those lofted through balls through the middle to Mane & Salah, but we seemed to have just stopped implementing them to any decent fashion recently.

Henderson had a few crap attempts at the lofted through ball vs West Brom in the first half, and they've barely resurfaced again since.

BorneTobyWilde · 05-01-2021 05:25PM

Thiago did nothing impressive last night, huge build up to his first start, and then nothing .

Blanco100 · 05-01-2021 05:27PM

the kelt wrote: »

But whats the point in telling them that?

You, me, them everyone knows play well and they still probably wont get a game against utd.

Case in point being Minamino who probably played his best game for us against Palace and hasnt seen a minute since.

Spot on. And the fringes players know it too. Seems to be a closed door in terms of competition for places.

Milner jumping Neco in terms of replacing TAA last night and Minamino/Origi are making up bench numbers unfortunately. If not trusted to make a difference last night when game was in the melting pot then there's no real future for them IMO.

The big issue is when the full backs are nullified. The front 3 are forced to play more narrow. West Brom, Newcastle and Southampton allowed Robbo space last night and simply crowded the box. It's harder to find a man in a crowded penalty area.

We lack a midfielder who can score from distance in games like this. Dont think TAA is showing poor attitude just don't think teams have been allowing us impose our will on teams.

I have to say though I'm actually enjoying Klopp being a whiny pr*ck with refereeing decisions in the media. Classic Fergie type sh*t. Putting in the hard yards, so if there's any future 50/50 calls going forward all eyes will be on it and refs will feel the heat.

yourdeadwright · 05-01-2021 05:29PM

Blanco100 wrote: »

Spot on. And the fringes players know it too. Seems to be a closed door in terms of competition for places.

Milner jumping Neco in terms of replacing TAA last night and Minamino/Origi are making up bench numbers unfortunately. If not trusted to make a difference last night when game was in the melting pot then there's no real future for them IMO.

The big issue is when the full backs are nullified. The front 3 are forced to play more narrow. West Brom, Newcastle and Southampton allowed Robbo space last night and simply crowded the box. It's harder to find a man in a crowded penalty area.

We lack a midfielder who can score from distance in games like this. Dont think TAA is showing poor attitude just don't think teams have been allowing us impose our will on teams.

I have to say though I'm actually enjoying Klopp being a whiny pr*ck with refereeing decisions in the media. Classic Fergie type sh*t. Putting in the hard yards, so if there's any future 50/50 calls going forward all eyes will be on it and refs will feel the heat.

I think we need to go 4 2 3 1 for a bit and when teams set up to stop that go back to 4 3 3 ,

When are Jota and Naby back ?

With: Naby its 7 games 25 goals
Without : Naby 10 games 12 goals ,

rob316 · 05-01-2021 05:30PM

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Thiago did nothing impressive last night, huge build up to his first start, and then nothing .

He sprayed some nice passes, but he didn't look anywhere near fit. Our midfield was pressed hard and he struggled. I thought the Ox was absolutely useless though.

Osmosis Jones · 05-01-2021 05:30PM

I wouldn't say there's no chance for youngsters getting into the team, Curtis Jones has played 18 games this season.

yourdeadwright · 05-01-2021 05:34PM

rob316 wrote: »

He sprayed some nice passes, but he didn't look anywhere near fit. Our midfield was pressed hard and he struggled. I thought the Ox was absolutely useless though.

It was a bad call to start both Thiago and Ox in midfield both lacking match sharpness due to injuries , Id expect both to start v Villa to get more up to speed

the kelt · 05-01-2021 05:34PM

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I've seen this mentioned a fair few times - he was alright, but wouldn't say it was anywhere near his best game, and he was quiet enough after his goal for large parts. Wasn't bad by any means, but it wasn't exactly a barnstorming performance to blast his way into the team either... I'm surprised he's not come off the bench in the recent games, given how bad we've been, but I'd still judge Shaqiri to be the more likely - and more influential - inclusion.

I actually agree with ye in regards to shaq.

But it isn’t a case of Mina or Shaq blasting their way into the starting 11 or anything of the sort.

But throw them on and see can they bring something different when what’s on the pitch isn’t working offensively.

West Brom game saw us bring ox on 83 and origi in injury time

Newcastle shaqiri brought on 2 minutes into injury time

Last night shaq on 80 mins and no one else.

It’s not a case of giving offensive players minutes for the sake of it, it’s trying something different because what’s on the pitch isn’t working.

Osmosis Jones · 05-01-2021 05:35PM

At least Thiago looked interested in scoring, he was basically the only player on the pitch to have a couple shots from range, both of which were fortunately deflected beyond goal

giveitholly · 05-01-2021 05:35PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

It was a bad call to start both Thiago and Ox in midfield both lacking match sharpness due to injuries , Id expect both to start v Villa to get more up to speed

After Thiago playing 90 mins last night I can't see him starting

Blanco100 · 05-01-2021 05:36PM

rob316 wrote: »

He sprayed some nice passes, but he didn't look anywhere near fit. Our midfield was pressed hard and he struggled. I thought the Ox was absolutely useless though.

We have a few players who contribute sparingly due to persistent injury.

Matip, Gomez, Keita, Ox

The only consistency they provide is you know they will miss at least 25-30% of the season through injury.

BorneTobyWilde · 05-01-2021 05:36PM

Henderson was a loss in midfield, really needed him in there, bad enough losing FAb in there, without losing Henderson. Ox was poor replacement .
We have fit CBs, use them.

70% possession, 17 shots, 10 corners,

Ask anyone the question ''who won that game'' who didn't know the result and they'd say the team with those stats. It was the same at Newcastle, all Liverpool.

Not a lot is wrong, that's for sure.

yourdeadwright · 05-01-2021 05:46PM

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Henderson was a loss in midfield, really needed him in there, bad enough losing FAb in there, without losing Henderson. Ox was poor replacement .
We have fit CBs, use them.

70% possession, 17 shots, 10 corners,

Ask anyone the question ''who won that game'' who didn't know the result and they'd say the team with those stats. It was the same at Newcastle, all Liverpool.

Not a lot is wrong, that's for sure.

I agree losing Fab is bad enough but losing Henderson means we lose intensity and lose rhythm which we need, Thiago should bring that touch of class and cleverness to go with work rate high tempo , .

We NEED a CB asap

Buddy97mm · 05-01-2021 05:50PM

brevity wrote: »

I've said before that Klopp doesn't want to have people going down easy or engaging in the dark arts. If Mane or Salah were on a different team I think their behaviour would be very different. I can also imagine Henderson, Milner and Robbo to be a bit more aggressive in their protests with the ref if the were in a different team

I think he expects the officials to do their job competently. It's up for discussion whether or not they are.

I think there is discernible difference between engaging in dark arts and ensuring that it is obvious to the officials that you have been fouled when you have been fouled. I feel it is the latter of these which lets us down, riding foul challenges and staying on our feet at times when maybe it would be better to maximise the foul committed, but not straying into "dark arts" territory.

Milner is at times actually the perfect example of this. He is to my mind the greatest of game managers we have when closing out a game. If we are winning by one goal coming into the last 10 minutes of a game, there is nothing I like more than to see than him coming on. He is not a diver or anything even close to that, but he knows to take the ball into certain areas (corner flag typically), invite a fairly dodgy challenge and make sure the referee knows that the challenge has been fairly ropey. No dark arts, no theatrics, no rolling around on the ground, just making the opposition commit to questionable challenges and ensuring you win a free.

Enzokk · 05-01-2021 06:02PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

The Milner one how the ref or linesman didn't see that is beyond me ,

I don't know what to call it any longer. It seems too targeted to be incompetence. Somehow that foul wasn't even given a replay. I think I know why, because the VAR would have had to look at it had there been one, but somehow even though Milner was down there was no replay. Then again never attribute malice to what can be explained as incompetence.

I think because we ran away with the league last year and because referees are scared of the LiVARpool crap from last year we are not getting judged fairly. These are the same people that somehow contrived to give handball for everything at the start of the year and with no change of the rule it is now judged differently. It didn't take a scientists to know the rule can be interpreted differently, but because they were told they didn't know how to use VAR they spat their dummies and we saw the result. Now they are back to the old rules again. It's a farce and I know some will downplay it but the amount of decisions that have been going against us is insane. I just hope when people say it evens out it turns out to be true, so we can get some good luck towards the end of the season. I doubt it works this way though.

x43r0 · 05-01-2021 06:17PM

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Thiago did nothing impressive last night, huge build up to his first start, and then nothing .

His passing was miles above the rest of our players. Surely you could see that?

Aside lack of match fitness though, he was clearly marked out of parts of the game. You could see a box of 4 players closing the space around him when it looked like there might be a pass going to him

yourdeadwright · 05-01-2021 06:17PM

Enzokk wrote: »

I don't know what to call it any longer. It seems too targeted to be incompetence. Somehow that foul wasn't even given a replay. I think I know why, because the VAR would have had to look at it had there been one, but somehow even though Milner was down there was no replay. Then again never attribute malice to what can be explained as incompetence.

I think because we ran away with the league last year and because referees are scared of the LiVARpool crap from last year we are not getting judged fairly. These are the same people that somehow contrived to give handball for everything at the start of the year and with no change of the rule it is now judged differently. It didn't take a scientists to know the rule can be interpreted differently, but because they were told they didn't know how to use VAR they spat their dummies and we saw the result. Now they are back to the old rules again. It's a farce and I know some will downplay it but the amount of decisions that have been going against us is insane. I just hope when people say it evens out it turns out to be true, so we can get some good luck towards the end of the season. I doubt it works this way though.

The Mane one against Newcastle is utterly bizarre , in what world is that not looked at ?

Then when we commit a foul its looked at for 10 minutes encase there is any possible way it can be given against us,

Osmosis Jones · 05-01-2021 06:19PM

I didn't think Thiago was bad at all, he didn't get into the opposition third at all really but was picking the right pass and advancing the ball time and time again, it was a very poorly balanced midfield.

yourdeadwright · 05-01-2021 06:20PM

This sounds crazy but is Costa fit ?
Surely he'd be worth a punt for 6 months , especially since teams are camping in there own 6 yard box against us ,
He cant be any worse than Origi or Taki

FlawedGenius · 05-01-2021 06:24PM

I think Liverpool need a striker aswell. Origi isn’t good enough. Baffled me when Liverpool got rid of Ings, who is a lot better than Origi, and could and should have played a lot more at Liverpool. Pool also sold on Brewster. It was always said that if Liverpool last season aswell ever got a few injuries to a few key players in the spine of the team, that they’d struggle as no strength in depth. United on the other hand are flying, have so many attacking options, but also a fragile central defense, the whole back line actually apart from Telles.
But United are great at beating the mid to lower teams, flat track bully’s if u will.

Anyway if I was a Liverpool fan, I’d be very very worried, not just of United but City. Klopp has gotten abit Bentizesq and cringe lately with his whinging about not getting the decisions, Liverpool last season got so a fair few debetable penalties, and last minute winners (Everton). United get more because they get the ball into the box more and have players with tricky feet and pace that if clipped they’ll go down. Klopp said United’s just another game, he knows full well it’s not and instead of saying yes it’s a big game and we want to win it, we are looking forward to it, but no, he knows he’s in trouble.

A very exciting time ahead. Imagine if United win the league on front of fans, because of the vaccine u would surely think at the very least a decent amount of fans will be allowed attend come May.

Exciting times ahead indeed!

yourdeadwright · 05-01-2021 06:28PM

FlawedGenius wrote: »

I think Liverpool need a striker aswell. Origi isn’t good enough. Baffled me when Liverpool got rid of Ings, who is a lot better than Origi, and could and should have played a lot more at Liverpool. Pool also sold on Brewster. It was always said that if Liverpool last season aswell ever got a few injuries to a few key players in the spine of the team, that they’d struggle as no strength in depth. United on the other hand are flying, have so many attacking options, but also a fragile central defense, the whole back line actually apart from Telles.
But United are great at beating the mid to lower teams, flat track bully’s if u will.

Anyway if I was a Liverpool fan, I’d be very very worried, not just of United but City. Klopp has gotten abit Bentizesq and cringe lately with his whinging about not getting the decisions, Liverpool last season got so a fair few debetable penalties, and last minute winners (Everton). United get more because they get the ball into the box more and have players with tricky feet and pace that if clipped they’ll go down. Klopp said United’s just another game, he knows full well it’s not and instead of saying yes it’s a big game and we want to win it, we are looking forward to it, but no, he knows he’s in trouble.

A very exciting time ahead. Imagine if United win the league on front of fans, because of the vaccine u would surely think at the very least a decent amount of fans will be allowed attend come May.

Exciting times ahead indeed!

Season isn't even half way gone its not a must win for either side at this stage ,

Liverpool FC Team Talk, Gossip, Rumours 2020/2021

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