Liverpool FC Team Talk, Gossip, Rumours 2020/2021

the kelt · 05-01-2021 12:10PM

rob316 wrote: »

I'd near throw Philips and Williams in at CB and get Fabinho back into midfield. Midfield was awful last night without Hendo, he brings so much energy and pressing.

Id chance bringing on a 3rd sub every now and again also, maybe like an attacking player that started to show a bit of what he was capable of 3 games ago but hasnt seen a minute since. Maybe also have a player take a shot from outside the penalty area?

This is fast becoming the season where as a club we seem more obsessed with referees and being able to bring on 5 subs than anything else

willabur · 05-01-2021 12:16PM

there is a bit of a paradox with liverpool at the moment. Yes we should have signed another or be looking to sign another centre half but centre half is the one position along with GK which is not having a bit of a crisis at the moment.

Teams have figured out how to neutralise us. They are dropping extra bodies into the box which makes crossing very difficult. Full backs are happy to give us the sidelines and sometimes even the box but they are stopping mane and mo getting onto their preferred foot time and time again. The D is completely swamped, there is no space for bobby to do his thing. The three of them look like they are running through glue at the moment but it is down to there being next to no space.

Jurgen needs to figure this out pronto

yourdeadwright · 05-01-2021 12:30PM

willabur wrote: »

there is a bit of a paradox with liverpool at the moment. Yes we should have signed another or be looking to sign another centre half but centre half is the one position along with GK which is not having a bit of a crisis at the moment.

Teams have figured out how to neutralise us. They are dropping extra bodies into the box which makes crossing very difficult. Full backs are happy to give us the sidelines and sometimes even the box but they are stopping mane and mo getting onto their preferred foot time and time again. The D is completely swamped, there is no space for bobby to do his thing. The three of them look like they are running through glue at the moment but it is down to there being next to no space.

Jurgen needs to figure this out pronto

The two lads who played CB last night would instantly help with us going forward ,

People severely underestimating how much Fabhino is missed in midfield,
He wins the tackles the set up counter's and so often makes the first pass that helps us get at teams ,
He also sprays balls around far better than Gini or Hendo ,

yourdeadwright · 05-01-2021 12:38PM

Personally I think Bobby is starting to look finished , I think the summer we may see a new number 9 arrive

Everyone knows he doesn't carry a goal threat like he used to that but his link up play has also gone to the dogs,

He only seems capable of scoring headers these days and even at that he missed 2 great chances at Newcastle and one against Westbrom with his head, His never shoots anymore its so frustrating , He missed the target form about 5 yards last night when Salah was a judged to foul the keeper ,

willabur · 05-01-2021 12:42PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

The two lads who played CB last night would instantly help with us going forward ,

People severely underestimating how much Fabhino is missed in midfield,
He wins the tackles the set up counter's and so often makes the first pass that helps us get at teams ,
He also sprays balls around far better than Gini or Hendo ,

Fabinho is missed in midfield alright, my point is more that its not like we are leaking stupid goals through the middle of our defence.

Thiago is in there as a passing midfielder meant to progress the ball and break lines (with his passing) but it wasn't as game changing (last night). Teams have adapted to that, even when mane got inside the box there was no way he was getting onto his right foot etc etc

willabur · 05-01-2021 12:43PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Personally I think Bobby is starting to look finished , I think the summer we may see a new number 9 arrive

Everyone knows he doesn't carry a goal threat like he used to that but his link up play has also gone to the dogs,

He only seems capable of scoring headers these days and even at that he missed 2 great chances at Newcastle and one against Westbrom with his head, His never shoots anymore its so frustrating , He missed the target form about 5 yards last night when Salah was a judged to foul the keeper ,

IN fairness there was a loud blast of the whistle before he took that shot on. He knew it wouldn't have counted

machiavellianme · 05-01-2021 12:49PM

dogbert27 wrote: »

Hindsight is great but could have done with keeping Lovren another season

So we could lose 2-0 last night?
He's always good for a gift to the opposition.

BillyHasMates · 05-01-2021 12:57PM

Tactically I think we have looked lost the last 3 games. Both West Brom and Newcastle played against us with men behind the ball, defending compact and in a low block, a Mourinho favourite. We have struggled to create enough dangerous situations and clear cut chances in both games, despite all of the possession we are getting. I agree that we are struggling creatively through the middle. Usually to get around teams that set up this way you must switch play very quickly or you overload one side of the pitch to get in behind. We have been doing neither. Even when we get behind these teams we are not making the most of it. Balls being overrun out of play, crosses overhit or being played too far behind players. It looks to me the players are not confident and unsure in these situations, which is so strange. We have certainly been overplaying and maybe overthinking it when we get around the opposition penalty area. This is the reason I believe for our slow and ponderous passing and build up play. There is no speed or explosiveness to it. Everything looks laboured.

Against Southampton they set up differently. They came out and pressed us even when they were ahead. Yet again we struggled, this time in transitioning out of defence, despite having two midfielders playing CB. We had players there good enough to hit long passes or diagonal balls over their press yet we did not choose this option except when the players were pressed hard enough they had to punt it out of panic. We resorted to punting it long, most of the time overhit in to the hands of Forster. We have two speedy forwards in Salah and Mane yet didn't utilize this strength. For some reason both players playing back to goal and coming deep rather than looking to make runs in behind.

It is also worth mentioning the defence. Collectively we look ponderous and slow. Defence seems to be programmed to stand off players. Trent in particular is consistently defending too loose. Something seems off with him. He is making more mistakes defensively than he ever did and his attacking output is nowhere near the levels we are used to seeing. His performances and form are a major worry. His body language is all wrong. Didn't like to see his little sulk some games ago when he got subbed off after putting in a terrible performance.

Look we can continue to make excuses about officiating and injuries all season. For me they are deflecting away from clear issues with the team and manager. Our performances are either extremely good or extremely bad this year. We either look great or terrible. It is hard to explain the huge variance in performances with largely the same players playing. It certainly can't be explained away by blaming officiating, or losing CB's to injury, or blaming Adrian.

A decision needs to be made on the CB situation. Klopp either puts his faith on the young players or the club go out and get one in January. Relying on putting Fab and Henderson there is certainly hurting us. Trent's form needs addressing. For me he can't continue being an automatic starter in his current form. He is not producing it offensively to make up for the ever increasing mistakes he is making defending. We desperately need a confidence booster. Utd game is of huge significance for the season. It has become a must win for me, given the form City and Utd are currently in relative to ours.

willabur · 05-01-2021 01:00PM

another point from last night, our management of the match officials was bad from 1st minute
Thiago having a whinge in the first minute contributed to the ref booking him, robbo gave him lip soon afterwards. You could see the ref making up his mind that he was not going to give us anything from there on in. We have to be better at that. Its one thing losing the rag in the last 10 mins but in the first 10+ you should be as good as gold

05-01-2021 01:14PM

The players might be like the rest of us, just not at 100% due to covid and life not being as it was/should be. They are all earning huge sums no doubt but their lives have changed in unprecedented ways.

Also VVD missing is likely a huge factor...... the season he joined us we finished on 75 points...... Alisson joined that summer and the following two seasons we finished on 97 and 99 points.

Without one or both of them we seem to have gone back to being a 2ppg ish team. The good news is that 2ppg might well win the 2020/2021 PL title.

yourdeadwright · 05-01-2021 01:26PM

So what do we do v Villa do we go strong or second string, 8 days rest till the United game ,
Be nice to see Keita back not sure if he will be fit ,

fyfe79 · 05-01-2021 01:29PM

the kelt wrote: »

Im not so sure.

I mean every manager in the game can come out and say after every game, well he missed that decision and he missed that other decision.

Thats football!

I dont agree with Klopp bringing up the whole Manu penalty thing last night after we have lost.

Whether hes right or wrong is irrelevant, bringing it up like he did when he did makes it look like Manu are getting into our heads. In his interview he dismissed the Manu game as just another game after we play Villa which we will think about then.

I smiled because thats exactly the line to take, dont even let them know theyre in your thoughts but he flips it 180 in the PC.

I do agree that he shouldn't have named any team, especially Utd. Pretty sure Leicester, for example, have gotten more pens than Utd, even, so he shouldn't be naming teams.

But I think he's dead right to point out that our forwards get very, very few decisions when constantly being man-handled. Then throw in random no-check decisions like Walcott on Milner last night, and the biggest of all (Pickford on VVD) in the derby, and it's infuriating. It's no harm for Klopp to highlight it.

Blanco100 · 05-01-2021 01:45PM

SlickRic wrote: »

Southampton deserved it. I think we all agree with that.

But the lack of decisions we're getting is concerning. It's downright baffling.

It is bizarre.

I believe the refs believe Salah and Mané are divers.

Look at Mariner have a go at Salah after he complains about the arms around his neck first half. It's fúcking insane.

Look at the last couple of minutes when Mane is booked, and the armlock Walker-Peters has on him before it.

Look at West Brom, and the full back with a full on grab around Salah's waste.

And its effecting decisions about other players and incidents.

Look at Walcott's fúcking mental challenge on Milner. Nothing.

There is no agenda against Liverpool. But I believe the narrative around Salah last year hasn't helped.

Also, the way they play doesn't help. Referees can't see everything, so they look for visual clues for fouls. Our forwards tend to be in contact with their defenders, trying to roll them. That leads to holding and tugs. Referees simply just don't buy those fouls as regularly as attackers who are running freely on the counter and are clipped.

Either way, we're having a fúcking Twilight Zone season.

No CBs essentially.
Thiago for 2 games.
Trent out for a month, and now off colour.
Alisson out for a couple of weeks.
Hendo the same.
Jota for 8 weeks.

Plus the weird refereeing decisions.

What drives me mad is that a GK just needs to hit the deck for a foul to be called. Fraser Forster spilled one catch over his own CB with Salah caught in between, he completely misjudged the flight of the ball.

Of course then whistle goes and it's a free out. Happens so often. The game should continue and VAR should rule on it afterwards whether it's a foul or not.

Enzokk · 05-01-2021 01:46PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

So what do we do v Villa do we go strong or second string, 8 days rest till the United game ,
Be nice to see Keita back not sure if he will be fit ,

Seeing that we look like crap when we have had a break and there is 8 days before the United match, surely we go strong and try to win the match. It is about gaining momentum and confidence for the team and I am sure they will want to show the previous result was an outlier.

1o059k7ewrqj3n · 05-01-2021 02:24PM

Last night was a game that Jota would have made an impact on. We cannot get him back quick enough.

atilladehun · 05-01-2021 02:27PM

It's not about the villa game, it's the one or two after that that's the problem.

Fitz* · 05-01-2021 02:28PM

14 different CB partnerships now used this season. Wouldn't be surprised if there is a 15th or 16th different partnership used this season.

Matip & Fabinho is the most commonly used partnership, with 6 games, and even at that it wasn't even a full 6 games.

Ottoman_1000 · 05-01-2021 02:37PM

BillyHasMates wrote: »

Tactically I think we have looked lost the last 3 games. Both West Brom and Newcastle played against us with men behind the ball, defending compact and in a low block, a Mourinho favourite. We have struggled to create enough dangerous situations and clear cut chances in both games, despite all of the possession we are getting. I agree that we are struggling creatively through the middle. Usually to get around teams that set up this way you must switch play very quickly or you overload one side of the pitch to get in behind. We have been doing neither. Even when we get behind these teams we are not making the most of it. Balls being overrun out of play, crosses overhit or being played too far behind players. It looks to me the players are not confident and unsure in these situations, which is so strange. We have certainly been overplaying and maybe overthinking it when we get around the opposition penalty area. This is the reason I believe for our slow and ponderous passing and build up play. There is no speed or explosiveness to it. Everything looks laboured.

Against Southampton they set up differently. They came out and pressed us even when they were ahead. Yet again we struggled, this time in transitioning out of defence, despite having two midfielders playing CB. We had players there good enough to hit long passes or diagonal balls over their press yet we did not choose this option except when the players were pressed hard enough they had to punt it out of panic. We resorted to punting it long, most of the time overhit in to the hands of Forster. We have two speedy forwards in Salah and Mane yet didn't utilize this strength. For some reason both players playing back to goal and coming deep rather than looking to make runs in behind.

It is also worth mentioning the defence. Collectively we look ponderous and slow. Defence seems to be programmed to stand off players. Trent in particular is consistently defending too loose. Something seems off with him. He is making more mistakes defensively than he ever did and his attacking output is nowhere near the levels we are used to seeing. His performances and form are a major worry. His body language is all wrong. Didn't like to see his little sulk some games ago when he got subbed off after putting in a terrible performance.

Look we can continue to make excuses about officiating and injuries all season. For me they are deflecting away from clear issues with the team and manager. Our performances are either extremely good or extremely bad this year. We either look great or terrible. It is hard to explain the huge variance in performances with largely the same players playing. It certainly can't be explained away by blaming officiating, or losing CB's to injury, or blaming Adrian.

A decision needs to be made on the CB situation. Klopp either puts his faith on the young players or the club go out and get one in January. Relying on putting Fab and Henderson there is certainly hurting us. Trent's form needs addressing. For me he can't continue being an automatic starter in his current form. He is not producing it offensively to make up for the ever increasing mistakes he is making defending. We desperately need a confidence booster. Utd game is of huge significance for the season. It has become a must win for me, given the form City and Utd are currently in relative to ours.

I said it last night but I think the VVD injury is having a bigger toll on this team than either Liverpool fans or Klopp want to admit.

The way Liverpool set up last season with their defensive line pretty much starting in the oppositions half made them impossible to play against. The way Salah and Mane play they actually lose the ball 3/4 times in a row before they pull something off and either get a shot a way and score or at least test the keeper. But last year it didn't matter when Salah or Mane lost possession because Liverpool were playing so high up the field they won it back almost instantly and Mane or Salah were having another crack at the defence often within 30 seconds of losing it and teams just got worn out trying to deal with them. Another reason why Liverpool scored a huge amount of goals after the 75 minute last year. Salah and Mane are losing the ball now this season and often going 20 minutes without getting it back in a dangerous position.

On top of that its his affect on the defenders around him. TAA has never been able to defend hence why playing most of the game in the oppositions half suited him as he hates dealing with defenders on the edge of his own box. But with VVD he was somewhat assured that he had a world class centre half there to protect him as he does have at least one lapse per game. Likewise with Gomez, Gomez gets a lot of stick for goals conceded last season but if you look at some of those goals the initial mistake comes from Trent and Gomes ends up in no mans land. Now Trent looks shot of all confidence as his knows his defensive weakness is going to be exposed when he goes out and its now affecting his attacking play as his is trying to hard to make up for his lapses down the other end.

I cant see this season improving much for Liverpool unless they completely overhaul the way they set up. They will still finish well inside the top 4 with around the 75 point mark but its City’s title to lose this year. City could go on a run of 10/11 wins on the trot now and there no other team in the PL capable of that this year.

BillyHasMates · 05-01-2021 02:54PM

Ottoman_1000 wrote: »

I said it last night but I think the VVD injury is having a bigger toll on this team than either Liverpool fans or Klopp want to admit.

The way Liverpool set up last season with their defensive line pretty much starting in the oppositions half made them impossible to play against. The way Salah and Mane play they actually lose the ball 3/4 times in a row before they pull something off and either get a shot a way and score or at least test the keeper. But last year it didn't matter when Salah or Mane lost possession because Liverpool were playing so high up the field they won it back almost instantly and Mane or Salah were having another crack at the defence often within 30 seconds of losing it and teams just got worn out trying to deal with them. Another reason why Liverpool scored a huge amount of goals after the 75 minute last year. Salah and Mane are losing the ball now this season and often going 20 minutes without getting it back in a dangerous position.

On top of that its his affect on the defenders around him. TAA has never been able to defend hence why playing most of the game in the oppositions half suited him as he hates dealing with defenders on the edge of his own box. But with VVD he was somewhat assured that he had a world class centre half there to protect him as he does have at least one lapse per game. Likewise with Gomez, Gomez gets a lot of stick for goals conceded last season but if you look at some of those goals the initial mistake comes from Trent and Gomes ends up in no mans land. Now Trent looks shot of all confidence as his knows his defensive weakness is going to be exposed when he goes out and its now affecting his attacking play as his is trying to hard to make up for his lapses down the other end.

I cant see this season improving much for Liverpool unless they completely overhaul the way they set up. They will still finish well inside the top 4 with around the 75 point mark but its City’s title to lose this year. City could go on a run of 10/11 wins on the trot now and there no other team in the PL capable of that this year.

I agree to a certain extent. Vvd is a loss no doubt. I completely agree about the high defensive line being an integral part of our success last season. It looked to me like we tried to play higher again at the start of this season, probably with having Thiago in the team giving less risk of losing possession but it was causing us problems. Teams were getting into positions quite easily against us involving footraces between attacker and a solitary defender to get in 1v1. I think the Villa game caused management to have a rethink. Don't forget Vvd played that night.

The higher line started causing us problems at the start of the season for a few reasons. We had 3 attackers, both fullbacks and two and sometimes all 3 midifelders pressing. Teams found if they moved the ball quickly enough and clip the ball over our midfield they could get possession well in behind our midfield and fullbacks. Teams left a player such as Grealish for Villa around the centre circle who would often receive these clipped balls over the top in acres of space. It then left one of the CB's with the decision of whether to go to him or stand off. Issue I saw was Gomes was continuously getting drawn further towards the ball leaving half the length of a pitch for an attacker to run in behind him. Our midfield and fullbacks were never in a position to help out.

I think Klopp wanted a slight readjustment but before he could implemenet it Vvd and Gomes were lost to injury very quickly. I think he is compensating for their loss by playing a deeper line again which has had a massive impact on our press and ability to quickly win possession back. I presume the theory was to help protect Fab and the young lads from being too exposed and he doesn't have the same faith in them. It is very noticeable how passive we have become without the ball. There is more than one way to play though. It is now exposing how reliant we were on that tactic. What the last few games have highlighted is that we are not very good on the ball when let have it. I wouldn't be surprised if stats showed us having more possession in games than ever but creating less opportunities than before. We need a decent plan B or we take the risk and revert to the high line again.

Shanee. · 05-01-2021 03:01PM

Gonna just leave this here. I’m not one to moan and bitch but all were asking is for fair application of the rules & VAR. So far this season we have been let down massively in this respect

https://www.givemesport.com/1634952-liverpool-a-full-list-of-the-16-refereeing-decisions-that-have-gone-against-them-this-season

BorneTobyWilde · 05-01-2021 03:02PM

Strange vibe between Mane and Salah, didn't see one pass between them in last 4 games. I'm sure there was...... but seems to be a tension there, very little linking, both playing an individual game of late.

jesus_thats_gre · 05-01-2021 03:05PM

They passed between each other last night.

Ikozma · 05-01-2021 03:13PM

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

They passed between each other last night.

Too much passing if anything, I just wish they'd bloody shoot

theoneeyedman · 05-01-2021 03:16PM

Shanee. wrote: »

Gonna just leave this here. I’m not one to moan and bitch but all were asking is for fair application of the rules & VAR. So far this season we have been let down massively in this respect

https://www.givemesport.com/1634952-liverpool-a-full-list-of-the-16-refereeing-decisions-that-have-gone-against-them-this-season

It's been open season on the 2 speed merchants recently, particularly Mane. Been kicked, pulled, dragged, knocked continuously by most teams, especially over the last 6 to 8 weeks. Zero protection from the referees.....

paulie21 · 05-01-2021 03:20PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

So what do we do v Villa do we go strong or second string, 8 days rest till the United game ,
Be nice to see Keita back not sure if he will be fit ,

Kelleher

Neco Nat Rhys Milly

Ox Jones Clarkson

Shaq Taki Origi

Tell them perform well here you're playing against Utd

yourdeadwright · 05-01-2021 03:41PM

paulie21 wrote: »

Kelleher

Neco Nat Rhys Milly

Ox Jones Clarkson

Shaq Taki Origi

Tell them perform well here you're playing against Utd

I think Thaigo needs to play for fitness and sharpness,

id love a new CB for this one ,

the kelt · 05-01-2021 03:50PM

paulie21 wrote: »

Kelleher

Neco Nat Rhys Milly

Ox Jones Clarkson

Shaq Taki Origi

Tell them perform well here you're playing against Utd

But whats the point in telling them that?

You, me, them everyone knows play well and they still probably wont get a game against utd.

Case in point being Minamino who probably played his best game for us against Palace and hasnt seen a minute since.

~Rebel~ · 05-01-2021 03:56PM

the kelt wrote: »

But whats the point in telling them that?

You, me, them everyone knows play well and they still probably wont get a game against utd.

Case in point being Minamino who probably played his best game for us against Palace and hasnt seen a minute since.

I've seen this mentioned a fair few times - he was alright, but wouldn't say it was anywhere near his best game, and he was quiet enough after his goal for large parts. Wasn't bad by any means, but it wasn't exactly a barnstorming performance to blast his way into the team either... I'm surprised he's not come off the bench in the recent games, given how bad we've been, but I'd still judge Shaqiri to be the more likely - and more influential - inclusion.

Ottoman_1000 · 05-01-2021 03:56PM

BillyHasMates wrote: »

I agree to a certain extent. Vvd is a loss no doubt. I completely agree about the high defensive line being an integral part of our success last season. It looked to me like we tried to play higher again at the start of this season, probably with having Thiago in the team giving less risk of losing possession but it was causing us problems. Teams were getting into positions quite easily against us involving footraces between attacker and a solitary defender to get in 1v1. I think the Villa game caused management to have a rethink. Don't forget Vvd played that night.

The higher line started causing us problems at the start of the season for a few reasons. We had 3 attackers, both fullbacks and two and sometimes all 3 midifelders pressing. Teams found if they moved the ball quickly enough and clip the ball over our midfield they could get possession well in behind our midfield and fullbacks. Teams left a player such as Grealish for Villa around the centre circle who would often receive these clipped balls over the top in acres of space. It then left one of the CB's with the decision of whether to go to him or stand off. Issue I saw was Gomes was continuously getting drawn further towards the ball leaving half the length of a pitch for an attacker to run in behind him. Our midfield and fullbacks were never in a position to help out.

I think Klopp wanted a slight readjustment but before he could implemenet it Vvd and Gomes were lost to injury very quickly. I think he is compensating for their loss by playing a deeper line again which has had a massive impact on our press and ability to quickly win possession back. I presume the theory was to help protect Fab and the young lads from being too exposed and he doesn't have the same faith in them. It is very noticeable how passive we have become without the ball. There is more than one way to play though. It is now exposing how reliant we were on that tactic. What the last few games have highlighted is that we are not very good on the ball when let have it. I wouldn't be surprised if stats showed us having more possession in games than ever but creating less opportunities than before. We need a decent plan B or we take the risk and revert to the high line again.

Yes, like all systems opposition teams will evolve and your edge will be gone. That high defensive line was a game changer last season for this team, it can still be hugely effective but if you don't have the personal or if your players on the field are lacking confidence in the system it can be a disaster (Villa 7-2)! The only other team that set up like Liverpool is Bayern and although they are winning and top of the league, they are conceding a huge amount of goals this season as teams are finding their away around it. Difference been though the standard of the rest of the teams in Germany in quite poor compared to the EPL so Bayern wont get caught out to often.

I think Klopp knows he needs to come up with something different as his frustration is very visible these days. The UTD game could be interesting as they smell blood and if they go for it that could play into Liverpool's hands as I feel Klopp would love noting more than an open expansive game to change the record at this stage.

yourdeadwright · 05-01-2021 03:59PM

Ottoman_1000 wrote: »

Yes, like all systems opposition teams will evolve and your edge will be gone. That high defensive line was a game changer last season for this team, it can still be hugely effective but if you don't have the personal or if your players on the field are lacking confidence in the system it can be a disaster (Villa 7-2)! The only other team that set up like Liverpool is Bayern and although they are winning and top of the league, they are conceding a huge amount of goals this season as teams are finding their away around it. Difference been though the standard of the rest of the teams in Germany in quite poor compared to the EPL so Bayern wont get caught out to often.

I think Klopp knows he needs to come up with something different as his frustration is very visible these days. The UTD game could be interesting as they smell blood and if they go for it that could play into Liverpool's hands as I feel Klopp would love noting more than an open expansive game to change the record at this stage.

United will come to play on the counter attack and be happy if its a draw ,
Like all of our games this season the first goal in that game will be absolutely massive,

Liverpool FC Team Talk, Gossip, Rumours 2020/2021

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