Coronavirus Pandemic Information- Local and Worldwide

Gillespy wrote: »

Mid thirties I would chane covid over a bad flu. The flu is no joke either. It fills hospitals every winter and kills a lot of people. People of all ages. Idiots only downplay the flu.

Covid is so lethal you can have it and not even know it. Sick of the same crowd pushing cases while not acknowledging the fact it's no where near as bad as feared last spring. Weeks of thousands of cases yet nothing close to the promised disaster. Keep the fear peddle floored at all costs though. It makes you feel better, to hell with everything else.

It’s not as bad because of all the measures taken to ensure it’s didn’t become that bad.

Is that such a hard concept?

Have people turned into total science deniers?? Science is out there that it it much more transmissible amd higher mortality rates than “the flu”

Questioning the science behind covid is like questioning gravity or time itself. Or like saying cancer is probably a hoax.

odyssey06 wrote: »

Who is downplaying the flu?
Pointing out that the IFR and CFR for covid is higher than flu and that the measures taken for covid have suppressed flu is somehow downplaying flu?
Flu hasn't filled the hospitals this year.
A realistic appraisal that the threat covid represents is greater than that of flu doesn't mean downplaying flu.

You can have flu too and not know it... but still spread it.

Ebola hasn't caused any major issues for public health systems globally because it hit people with severe symptoms early doors.
A disease which lets many infected people walk around with it, and hits a significant number with severe symptoms represents a whole other level of threat in terms of numbers to public health systems.
Yet is Ebola more lethal than covid?
So when people roll out the trite line about "so lethal", it's just a simplistic understanding.

The economic genocide that the Covid response will inflict into the further will be hundreds of times greater then if the disease had simply been let run its course and lockdowns abandoned, the un predictions for widespread famines next year and 200 million odd people facing starvation will be more than likely washed over by our media, the hysteria over this disease and the timeframe it’s been running for is farcical, the simply facts are if the ecb hadn’t of simply fired up the printing presses and bankrolled the likes of ourselves and countries like Spain and Italy, politicians would never of even of had the option to close up the economy for the best part of a year and still no sign of them easing up

Water John wrote: »

Jay, you have consistently gone with the economic argument predominating. Most analysts including economists disagree.

35% of all US dollars ever printed occurred this year and that was before the 2.3 trillion dollar relief package passed by congress is factored in, America isn’t a solvent nation anymore if going by any metrics that under normal circumstances pre Covid would be accepted as fact, 1st world countries will simply keep adding zeros onto their debt piles without any consequences but third world countries will be threw to the wolves

odyssey06 wrote: »

Nobody is facing starvation becase of covid lockdowns.
They are facing starvation because they live in war torn countries with precarious food supply situations.

Letting the virus run its course would mean far higher death toll in Ireland.
Apparently we are not allowed to protect our own because economic disruption could have impacts on poverty stricken people globally... people that some seem to reference only in arguments against lockdowns.
Without lockdowns there would be huge economic disruption regardless is also forgotten about.

What happens when tens of millions of people are facing starvation in Africa due to a tanked global economy because of Covid lockdowns, they’ll all head for Libiya and pile onto boats and try and get into the Eu, the refugee problem that has plagued Europe for the past decade was largely orchestrated by Barack Obama and the American war machine, look it up, 1st world counties can’t just wash their hands of poorer nations as the consequence of millions of refugees trying to pile across into their borders is no joke

odyssey06 wrote: »

You are failing to distinguish between the economic effects of the virus and lockdown... or the effects of overrun public health systems in the US and EU.
Nothing you have said is in any way something Ireland could or should be considering in its response to the virus.

As for orchestration... The conspiracy theory thread is elsewhere.

Pascal and co are borrowing money to fund these rolling lockdowns that are entirely dependant on the Eu allowing Ireland to keep its corporate tax rate and allow the likes of apple and co to use Ireland as a tax haven, I can’t see the French especially allowing this arrangement to continue so effectively Ireland will be insolvent overnight when the pin is pulled, what state do you reckon the finances of hotel/bar owners are in at the minute countrywide along with retail shops relying on footfall instead of online trade, tag in leisure centres/gym owners plus saloons etc you could safely say the self employed class in this country is finished in a lot of cases, but the tax take from the likes of apple mask the losses for the above but the bad debt and mortgages not been met will have a serious strain on banks balance sheets into the future

Another often forgotten problem with Covid and deniers is the issue of viral load.

Allowing covid run rampant exposes people to more and more covid amd so you end up with more and more people with extreme symptoms, requiring hospitalisation and so more deaths.

This viral load issue isn’t seen with “the flu” but has been widely documented.

So you don’t just end up with more cases if you don’t control covid, the severity of the cases strengthens as the numbers increases and so exponentially compounding the impact in the community.

The new variant seen causes much higher viral loads thus the link between positive cases and hospitalisation is shorter, which we are seeing already.

Some are predicting that with all the money thrown towards it and as vaccine comes out and normality returns inflation could kick in proper, increasing private borrowing costs, and other costs in general. Stock market will adjust back possibly hitting pensions etc. If the virus is sorted, economies will still have adjustments

Mooooo wrote: »

Some are predicting that with all the money thrown towards it and as vaccine comes out and normality returns inflation could kick in proper, increasing private borrowing costs, and other costs in general. Stock market will adjust back possibly hitting pensions etc. If the virus is sorted, economies will still have adjustments

The question is how can the value of money be stabilised. Inflation and interest rate rises are the only options. Interest rate rises mean widespread defaults on public and private debt so really only leaves inflation

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

How many excess deaths from all cause mortality did sweden end up with for the whole year of 2020?
Not anywhere near enough for our response to have be justified as reasonable.

That is a fact, unless can you put a price per head that is worth spending in the hope of delaying death for a year for someone with an average age of 80+?
We cant and never have thrown the kitchen sink at health because if we were it would end up taking all the tax collected and more. We would destroy the economy and end up in a position worse off than we were before.


Just because you don't agree with someone doesn't mean you should mute them. Echo chambers aren't a great way to develop a wider knowledge...

I think your arguments have lost most of their credibility at this stage and that's why most on here are ignoring your points now. I'm not going to mute you out of spite, that's usually reserved to the bad minded trolls but I don't think I'll bother engaging with you anymore on this thread!

_Brian wrote: »

When I see these deniers posting and holding onto a position of saying it’s just flu or it’s just an old person loosing a year of their life, I am continually reminded of “comical alli” during the Iraqi war insisting the Americans were beaten while American tanks could clearly be seen in the background of his news conference progressing into the capital.

Insisting on a position that flies on the face of agreed science and common decency is just ridiculous and embarrassing.

The notion that you can measure a society on how it treats its old people is very telling and those wanting to sell short the lives of older or vulnerable people, just so they can shop without a mask or drink in the pub are a poor representation of Irish society.

On a per capita basis Ireland has the 3rd highest debt per person ratio in the world, the US and Japan been above us was 42,000 euro for every man women and child in the country in 2019 is probably north of 50,000 Euro now, common decency towards our older generation will be the least of our worries in the next decade, basic services like hospital care and utilities like our crumbling water system will be at 3rd world levels, but yeah let’s destroy our tertiary economy and bankrupt thousands of business to be a gold standard euthopian society that by all intent and purposes hasn’t a pot to piss in and is living of been a tax haven for big tech and all that lovely interest free money the Eu give out for free....
Living in the present and not looking forward to what the future holds is grand for middle and upper class people who have little care for what level of poverty future generations are been saddled with but have a meltdown if any one struggling our worried about their children’s future suggests locking down the economy to prolong the older generations lives many of whom are suffering from multiple co-morbities when they are listed as a Covid death is akin to been a ss member loading the trains to Auswitch

Is there an official date for this Level 5 lockdown to end?

Can't see kids going back on the 11th either

They have a “best case” for the end of January for 1200 cases a day. Cant see them ending a lockdown at that stage.

More likely mid-end of Feb.

I’m dubious about schools going back as Whelan has said. Maybe just leaving certs ?? If they get pushed much out passed that it would be hard to see exams going ahead.

We’re 50/50 on sending 6th class kid back on 11th even if school’s open, possibly leaning towards keeping her at home another week amd see how it goes. Her homework is already all given out online which is handy.

Eldest is in Leaving Cert and she will go once school is open. She’s fairly worried about it, but I was saying earlier no matter if it’s exams or continuous assessment the solution is the same - study away. She reckons 80% of syllabus is covered, some teachers already in revision mode.

Lady locally, just across the fields, very sick in bed at home, herself her sister and brother all positive, all mid to late 50’s.

Mother of a friend, in her mid 50’s hospitalised last night, positive last week but breathing difficulties now. Previously healthy, no underlying conditions, a general nurse, one would presume just viral load. She nurses abroad but came back for Christmas and tested positive on arriving home.

We got a curtsy call earlier. Family who sympathised with us at the funeral last week have tested positive, all either positive or showing symptoms.
No hand shaking or anything and we were masked in the funeral home but they stood with us for maybe 10 minutes chatting.

Should be long enough ago that we have no worries.

Due to the funeral I’ve not seen my mam over the Christmas at all, very sad about that, more so than I would have expected.