AP Post Interview

deiseindublin wrote: »

I'm not convinced the numbers are actually useful in a lot of cases. I'm of the opinion that the figures released only tell us that the person who got the job was logged as scoring more overall.

Absolutely a waste of time in many cases ,cobbled together set of random lower scores .The sort of people who fix these dont posses the subtlety or mathematical intelligenece to even disguise their shenanigans .I remember one of mine was just an enormous chunk taken out of the first question's score by the principal who gave half the marks of the other two on the panel .

History Queen wrote: »

Just got my scores... what you said appears to be true... I'm not sure what to think now. I'm meeting a member of the interview board tomorrow for feedback so I'll know more then.

Its possible you are not who they wanted....have you displayed any backbone or capacity for independant thought in the recent past...do you have standards? Are you capable of saying no politely on occasion when you have your own private commitments and life to lead, have you ever failed to think that any new initiative or plan is just super fantastic and must be embraced wholeheartedly with almost nauseating levels of only the most positive kind of positivity and definitely not questioned ...if so then it could be possibls that any combination of those could potentially have been the problem....but theyll probably tell you it was close in the end but the other candidate scored marginally higher in supporting school ethos and vision or some such wooly bolox plucked out of locations where the sun dont shineetc etc

History Queen wrote: »

I have had disagreements with the principal. On occasions where i was wrong i acknowledged it and moved on. I don't like his personality or the way he operates most of the time, but i think we've an ok professional relationship.

I didn't expect to get this post and don't think anyone is out to get me, but scoring 5 marks less than the preferred candidate in Developing Leadership Capacity when I run two large scale projects each year and have a qualification in Leadership and Management (preferred candidate leads nothing and has no qualification, i know as I'm friends with them) does make me wonder if it was a fait accompli before interviews were held.

Just to reiterate, I have no complaint about not getting the post, if the candidaye yhey chose hadn't got it i suspect one of two other colleagues would have been chosen. That neing said I would like to be able to work on my application for the future, I can't do that if my feedback doesn't relate to my performance.

I cant claim to be an expert and id say there are differences between schools but anecdotally (which doesnt count for much in fairness) it seems in some places its become more of a game of who is the best lickarse

I think your best bet is to continue to plug away at it if you want it and definitely get the feedback .....then strengthen that area (even if it doesnt need strengthening and the whole thing is a bit of a sham)

You will get there in the end with perseverance if you want
It that much.......if they highlight an area for improvement and you improve it and everything else remains at high level its harder for them to deny the next time, watch for them deliberately leaving a get out of jail clause for themselves though

Out of curiosity, would you be the more senior candidate, seems to be a bit of a trend of promoting the greener easier to manipulate eager young ones which is a shame and detrimental to staff morale in a lot of cases + lowers standards for everyone in the long run.....for all the guff about ethos/school community etc etc it doesnt seem to operate that way a lot of the time......

Some people play the other way which is make them afraid not to give them the role but thats a trickier game.

Personally if they came back saying you scpred low on developing leadership capacity id question how they came to that decision given what you have said regarding leading two large scale projects etc.......you might learn something regarding what they consider their definition of that is or that they are total bluffers that always had their preferred candidate regardless of interview process....now having said that my advice may not be the best you would receive as my own personal preference when faced with this particular kind of **** is to mentally tell them to stick it as far up their asses as it will go and earn multiples of the scheckels they are handing out independantly of the system.....its my opinion they are getting far too much in return for ignoring what their basic role is to try run a school like low end call centre while still retaining all the aspirational dewey eyed educational vocational guff when it suits.

Always an interesting discussion to be had around the AP process. I swore I'd never apply after I saw two principals who were sitting on an interview board discussing the candidates applications and allocating marks/questions in a local cafe one afternoon...the day before the interview took place. I'm in another school in the area but would know both of them and knew from contacts in the school that these interviews were coming up. Now I'm sure that there are plenty of examples where things are done by the book but I'm not convinced everyone is.

We got new management a few years ago and the last time those who got the AP1 Posts were a shock. Established colleagues who had worked hard over the years with AP2 posts were completed overlooked. The marking for one colleague was a disgrace. She is an excellent teacher and some students might say the best teacher but the irony she scored the lowest out of all in Teaching and Learning. I have a lot of respect for her how she dealt with it as she resigned her AP2 Post even after the CE of the ETB came out to meet her.

It’s a known thing in my school if you started around the same time as our new management or are male you are flavour of the month with management. I will say it’s not the male staff’s fault that their stars have risen so high with female management, but it would be nice for management to recognise everyone.

The notion it’s a level playing field for all is absolute fantasy in most schools.

AP2 is just under 4k. AP1 is now 9k or thereabouts since the pay rise in October. So for the person getting it at the age of 35, I presume you're referring to the new pension scheme, it's an extra 9k on their salary for 30 odd years, given that they can't get their pension until 65. So it will make a difference at the other end.

am_zarathustra wrote: »

I suspect most people aren't doing it for the money to be fair, handier doing grinds or correcting to be honest, it's definitely not paid well if you are in charge of multiple roles.

With regards to fairness, I absolutely agree with a lot of what's said here, I think a lot are predestined before the interview, I think had new management been around a little longer or had I not been heavily involved in an important area of the school as it happened at the time, I may not have succeeded either, despite the work I put in.

One thing I do find so odd is the fact that the quality of your teaching doesn't matter, this is bizarre. I am pulled ten ways every day, frequently issues turn up at my door but my classroom management is tight, the kids respect me and my classes are well planned so learning continues. While this isn't exactly within the framework it's also vital when it comes to your colleagues, I can't lead teaching and learning and ask staff to take on new initiatives if I can't walk the walk. Our last round of promotions was crazy really, a number of absoutly top notch teachers lost out to people who can't control a class, and though there is no box for it in the interview, it's still the bulk of what any of us in middle management should be at! This does cause issues, and I feel justifiably! My LC are more important than whatever JC nonsense they are going on about this week

Hate to break it to you, but soon these teachers with paperwork posts will be educating you about think/pair/share and post-it notes for the new Leaving Cycle :pac:

The days of being left the **** alone to teach your subject are long gone.

Smacruairi wrote: »

The tone of this is spot on. I also can't understand people who couldn't control themselves let alone a class even wanting to go for these roles. Im gonna be extremely prejudiced here but I always find that there is no substitute for trying to lead a school like having to lead a class where no one wants to be there, eg ordinary level Irish last class on a Friday. If you can control that, then put yourselves forward, but don't come preaching about how great and fun teaching is when you teach chemistry where you only have 11 in the class, they're all wicked smart, and they all actually chose the subject (no offence to chemistry teachers, just an example!)

I understand what you're trying to say, but I don't think it's fair. There are plenty of teachers who teach subjects that attract academically able and motivated students who still can't teach and their classes are a mess.

Students and staff know who the best teachers are regardless of what is on their timetable.

I actually ended up in another interview with him where he referenced my age 3 times, never as a positive......bizarre stuff!

I think the gender thing is so archaic, given how absolutely irrelevant it is to competency! But the idea that it would be asked in an interview in a private company is madness but it does seem to be acceptable in teaching interview for whatever reason. I had a few other jobs before teaching with competitive interview processes and the lack of professionalism and disinterest in actually finding out relevant information about the candidate completely shocked me. Out of 20 odd interviews, initial or promotion I've done over the years I'd say 2 of those gave the interviewera any real insight into my abilities or interest in the field of education. The rest ranged from pro forma to insane questions on catechisms

am_zarathustra wrote: »

I think it can be subject dependent too, in my option subject it really wouldn't matter who had the class at senior cycle, it's relatively straightforward to teach and is well resourced. Differentiation is almost built in. In my other subject, which is core, you'd have teachers who would prefer to/should teach HL and other who would teach OL, as long as there is consensus amoung staff I don't see this as an issue, you are playing to the strengths of your teachers to provide the best educational outcome.

The issue I see more in schools is the soft timetables that are given when the perception is people can't do the job effectively. I would say half our staff teach a full teaching timetable of examinable subjects and would consistently have exam classes. There is a significant cohort who do very little class teaching, lots of LS, BFL etc and run various things within the school. These are never the HL maths teacher or the Irish teacher, they can't afford to give them the time off and won't find a replacement. As teacher shortages continue in certain subjects this will end up damaging the long term career prospects of these teachers (despite them doing the bulk of the actual job of the school) as they won't get a few hours a week off their timetable to sit on LS meetings or run initiatives. Often these are the most competent people in the building, but the competency based interview doesn't account for them have 4 exam classes every year and managing to get them through.

Completely agree with this. I’d actually say all these ‘middle managers’ sitting in on meetings are actually generating more work for classroom teachers, meanwhile swanning around themselves ‘managing’....this never includes teaching / setting exams / correcting / pt meetings / reports etc. SEN post holder seems to be able to assign SEN classes to all...except himself...coz he’s in ‘meetings’ . And don’t get me started on BFL, harvesting & harbouring delinquents who would otherwise be suspended / expelled ! But that’s probably a separate thread

Spoke to someone who was offered an AP2 post after an interview he had to be persuaded to do and had informed the Principal to 'keep it simple as he was going to do no preparation for the interview'. Different world in his school!