Why not more range-extended electrics?

SeanW · 23-12-2020 7:25pm #1

I've been watching the used car market for a while and have been semi-curiously, semi-seriously looking at electric vehicles. I understand that the main advantages to an electric car is that it should have less mechanical problems owing to fewer moving parts, lower tax, lower "fuel" costs especially if you can park in a driveway and charge at home etc. While the main disadvantages are worse range than an ICE car, longer charging times, fewer public charging stations and battery degradation over time.

I would never consider a hybrid car as I understand (and I could be wrong on this) those give you the worst of both worlds, both a battery that is likely to fail over time, and all the moving parts associated with a normal ICE, transmission etc. AFAIK a plug in hybrid is the same, only with a bigger battery that can be charged.

It would seem to me that the way to get people driving "electric but with a backup plan" would be to take a straight electric, like a Nissan Leaf, Renault Zoe etc and add a generator that just provides backup power to the batteries but does not have any role in propelling the car. Something like this a mix of a 22kwh battery and a fuel tank could allow people driving long distances, people that don't have a private driveway or private garage to park in etc to charge the battery whenever they can but top up with petrol in a pinch. This would be particularly handy for single-car households (e.g. single person, single car family) to have one car that does everything.

I thusly find it strange that only two major REEV types were ever made, the BMW i3 REx and the Chevrolet Volt, and both are now out of production.

I'd be curious to know the thoughts of those who have more knowledge/experience of EVs, hybrids etc. on why range-extended electric vehicles are not more commonplace.

JohnC. · 23-12-2020 7:30pm

You just sent out the Mad Lad signal.

nsi423 · 23-12-2020 8:03pm

I think it's mostly a marketing thing. Including a REX -even as an option - is like admitting that your EV isn't practical enough yet, either because of your battery technology or the public infrastructure.
BMW didn't have that problem with the i3, it was barely more than a concept car when it was released, so there was no pride lost in admitting the range issue.
Nissan didn't see it the same way - the original Leaf had similar range, but they took a different marketing position, that their offering was good enough for many (which it was!).
These days, nobody wants to admit their new EV isn't up to scratch, regardless of the state of public infrastructure.

Kramer · 23-12-2020 8:09pm

SeanW wrote: »

why range-extended electric vehicles are not more commonplace.

Batteries have gotten bigger & charging speeds have improved in the years since the BMW i3 REx came out.
Basically, there are many new fully electric cars (BEVs) which can do a Cork to Belfast drive (400km+, over 4 hours) with just a single 20 minute stop.

You'd be making that stop anyway in an ICE vehicle, to strain the spuds & refil will a coffee etc.

With 300km ranges being common nowadays, 90%+ of BEV owners likely have plenty of range for their day to day needs too.

PHEVs can make sense as do BEVs. Range extenders no longer do.
Time/tech has moved on - sorry Mad_Lad :pac:.

Lantus · 23-12-2020 8:55pm

Adding a small battery to a petrol engine is a good news story. Mum's can drive for miles and single handedly save the planet in their hybrid.

But taking an ev and adding a fossil burning device is not such a good story. Your making an ev 'worse' which is much more problematic from a marketing perspective than making a petrol car a little better.

The id3 and 4 are already there in terms of EV cars built from the ground up. No genny required
This is the mainstream ev the world needs.

24-12-2020 10:46am

SeanW wrote: »

I thusly find it strange that only two major REEV types were ever made, the BMW i3 REx and the Chevrolet Volt, and both are now out of production.

The BMW i3 Rex is the only PHEV ever made that has absolutely no mechanical connectivity to the wheels and the only PHEV where the driver has complete control as to when it activates or not, that is from 75% charge to 6.5%.

SeanW wrote: »

I'd be curious to know the thoughts of those who have more knowledge/experience of EVs, hybrids etc. on why range-extended electric vehicles are not more commonplace.

You won't get many favourable comments about the Rex here because those that don't have it have to queue at chargers, suffer cold battery extended charging periods, broken chargers, idiots IC'ing parking spaces etc etc and have a go at Rex owners with comments like, "the Rex isn't relevant today" "battery capacity is much greater now" "charging has got faster" all true except that the Rex is relevant and very much so to it's owners but one thing hasn't changed and that's Ireland's appalling charging infrastructure.

The Rex also eliminates any increased charge times due to a cold battery which can add significant time to charging.

The Rex also means you do not have to slow down on the Motorway.

The Rex eliminates range loss due to bad weather.

The Rex eliminates battery degradation issues But so far the 94Ah battery is proving to be extremely robust and I haven't observed any noticeable loss of capacity in nearly 4 years and 103,000 Kms a stark contrast to my 2015 Leaf after 3 years and 85,000 Kms.

The Rex tank fills up in 10 seconds and you can carry on your journey.

It's a shame there wasn't a bio fuel version but the Irish Government killed bio fuels with tax over night and could have been a good alternative to Diesel.

The future, hydrogen ? a small hydrogen fuel cell or an ICE that burns hydrogen would be really sweet, refuel in seconds or add a larger tank for more range.

Some say Electric cars will win out but I think that EV will not be suitable for many People in large countries that want to travel big distances between countries or states in the USA for instance where it wouldn't be uncommon for People there to drive 2 or 3 states away where we have no option but to take a plane or ferry if we want to leave the Island and car manufacturers are going to build cars that suit the larger countries and not what we want or need on a small Island.

I was thinking about getting a new EV but a few things stopped me, the main one being the Rex, it's just too convenient, the battery meets most of my needs and a larger battery would meet even more except for when I need to put the boot down in bad weather, I would inevitably need to charge regardless and the convenience of not having to stop at a charger and as I experienced in Kilcullen last week, wait 20 mins and charge 20 mins, Rex allows me to miss this entirely but I decided while I was there and on the phone to wait.

The 2nd thing that stopped me getting a new EV is my mileage, it's just too much and I've been paying for a car now for 5 years and this has to stop at some point for a few years and let the car earn for a change.

The Rex has been 100% reliable, no issues at all, most of the Rex related issues were fixed before the 94Ah battery was released and the Rex in the 94 Ah is more powerful and I never experienced any power loss even with 6.5% battery at 120 Km/hr on the Motorway.

You're much more likely to have issues with a Tesla than a Rex.

Busman Paddy Lasty · 24-12-2020 3:47pm

I think it's been a huge missed opportunity by European regulators not backing the REx. Under certain conditions classifying a REx as a full BEV for grant purposes would have steered the motor industry toward REx, reducing ICE sales. For example, eligibility based on a minimum of 125km of battery range or a quaifying CO2 figure so low that PHEVs can't reach it. Think about it, the Mad_Lad's i3 has more BEV on board than a Leaf 24 but does not qualify as a BEV. It has a small ICE but still has more BEV.

Diesel sales took a slump after Dieselgate despite the advantage of our emissions based system. REx BEVs from all EU car makers were not available to replace lost diesel sales. Self charging hybrids filled the void and factories have kept crankin' out the petrols ever since.

Almost everyone has asked me this last year does the Niro have a small backup tank. Their next question is why not. With grants REx versions instead of phevs would have sold big time. To this day diesels are still selling and many of them won't do the mileage to justify the engine choice.

It was pointed out during the oil burners thread there are market segments not catered for by BEVs but demand is there. Many mentions of the Ford Galaxy or S-Max sized motors. These large wide cars would be well suited to a battery skateboard and REx. Folks do want to go EV but Model X and iPace aren't for the masses. Families that need 3 isofix in the rear have plenty of bills coming down the tracks.

So Mr. REx maybe we will meet in an alternate history but you are not for this world.

The king is dead. Long live the king.

DrPhilG · 24-12-2020 3:51pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The Rex eliminates battery degradation issues.

Eh?

24-12-2020 4:50pm

JohnC. wrote: »

You just sent out the Mad Lad signal.

Red Alert Red Alert

24-12-2020 5:02pm

DrPhilG wrote: »

Eh?

Think about it, when the battery degrades you still got the Rex as backup.

deravarra · 24-12-2020 6:31pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Red Alert Red Alert

For a while I was wondering what that meant - "mad lad signal"

DrPhilG · 24-12-2020 8:43pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Think about it, when the battery degrades you still got the Rex as backup.

OK but it doesn't eliminate the degradation issues. The issues are still there, they just don't impact as badly.

Plus is there any non-Leaf car that has notable battery degradation anyway?

80sDiesel · 24-12-2020 10:57pm

One of the most popular small cars in Japan is the Nissan note e power. It’s a Rex but not a phev. The next gen quashai will have it here.

slave1 · 25-12-2020 7:40pm

Just another variant of a PHEV. Marketing have them as progressive step to a pure BEV but really it makes no sense for a battery to be paired with an emission motor.
Just my humble opinion, proper range BEVs are here now so skip these Dino Juicers

ba_barabus · 25-12-2020 9:02pm

I was in a Nissan dealer recently enquiring about a Leaf. He said it almost fits my needs but given my driving I'd be better wait until the new EPOWER Qashqai arrives late 2021 which seems to be what you've described above. Can't wait to try it

26-12-2020 10:59am

DrPhilG wrote: »

OK but it doesn't eliminate the degradation issues. The issues are still there, they just don't impact as badly.

Plus is there any non-Leaf car that has notable battery degradation anyway?

No it doesn't change battery degradation it only makes it a non issue because there is no range impact with the Rex unlike a BEV.

deravarra · 26-12-2020 12:37pm

Deleted User wrote: »

No it doesn't change battery degradation it only makes it a non issue because there is no range impact with the Rex unlike a BEV.

as long as there's petrol or diesel in the tank?

Roll on those dilithium crystals!

26-12-2020 12:46pm

slave1 wrote: »

Just another variant of a PHEV. Marketing have them as progressive step to a pure BEV but really it makes no sense for a battery to be paired with an emission motor.
Just my humble opinion, proper range BEVs are here now so skip these Dino Juicers

It makes perfect sense to use an ICE only as a generator with an EV, until recharge times are greatly improved along with charger availability.

This is what makes the Rex 100% unique, there's nothing like it on the road, the Rex isn't in any way mechanically connected to the wheels and you can choose whether to use it or not once the charge doesn't go down to 6.5%.

You can choose to stop and charge or just continue on your way, chargers in use or down ? no problem just power up the Rex.

The weather is crap, no problem, with the Rex you don't have to slow down to make up for foul weather or cold.

The Rex allows you travel anywhere any time regardless of EV charging infrastructure, fill up in 8 seconds, pay and you're on the road again.

The Rex could also be adapted to burn hydrogen or biofuels without the need of a Fuel Cell.

Rex eliminates the increased charge times caused by a cold battery.

Some day I'll have no choice but to change to BEV but for another few years I'm more than happy to keep the Rex. Maybe in 2-3 years there will be an EV that charges a lot faster, maybe battery charging won't suffer so much in the cold and maybe the charging infrastructure will greatly improve but I said that when I got the Leaf back in 2015.....

26-12-2020 12:47pm

deravarra wrote: »

as long as there's petrol or diesel in the tank?

Roll on those dilithium crystals!

Petrol, yes, fill up in 8 seconds, pay and drive off, you really can't beat that level of convenience.

deravarra · 26-12-2020 12:58pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Petrol, yes, fill up in 8 seconds, pay and drive off, you really can't beat that level of convenience.

8 seconds? Perhaps if you had a crew helping in the pit - but no, takes a bit more than that

In the meantime, an overnight charge would suit a lot of people. Fast charging also not so bad especially on longer journeys. It would force you to take a decent recharging break for yourself as the driver. A good 400km drive with about 30 minutes layover before another 400km drive.

With the range increasing to around 500+ km in most new entries, range anxiety should be lessened. And it should finally herald the end of fossil fuel antiques.

26-12-2020 1:17pm

deravarra wrote: »

8 seconds? Perhaps if you had a crew helping in the pit - but no, takes a bit more than that

In the meantime, an overnight charge would suit a lot of people. Fast charging also not so bad especially on longer journeys. It would force you to take a decent recharging break for yourself as the driver. A good 400km drive with about 30 minutes layover before another 400km drive.

With the range increasing to around 500+ km in most new entries, range anxiety should be lessened. And it should finally herald the end of fossil fuel antiques.

8 seconds, yes, it's a small tank!

Over night charging is fine except when away from home with no access to charging which brings me to another point, if the battery gets cold over night then charging on DC can be quite slow. The Rex also eliminates this.

Stopping is fine if you want but can add significant time to your trip if there is a queue or someone charging when you arrive, The Rex means this is not an issue.

400 Kms range is fine, less with foul weather and motorway speeds, cold etc but still needs to be recharged and Rex means you can avoid all this if you need.

Gumbo · 26-12-2020 3:40pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Petrol, yes, fill up in 8 seconds, pay and drive off, you really can't beat that level of convenience.

Not everyone needs a back up generator in the boot.
From your posts you’d swear the forum is against Hybrids and PHEV’s. I. My direct family, there’s an EV, Hybrid and a PHEV. Each car suits the owners requirements.

vicM · 26-12-2020 4:11pm

Gumbo wrote: »

Not everyone needs a back up generator in the boot.
From your posts you’d swear the forum is against Hybrids and PHEV’s. I. My direct family, there’s an EV, Hybrid and a PHEV. Each car suits the owners requirements.

True not everyone needs a REX, but it has been stated earlier in this thread that there is a place for PHEV yet none for REX! Makes no sense to me as I would argue in the natural evolution from ICE to BEV, a REX would come after a PHEV.

26-12-2020 7:03pm

My driving requirements are perfect for a REX, 95% of the time, I would only need a range of 30-70km. Then there is the occasional trip to Dublin and back 270 km round trip.

I would only need to fire up the REX about once a month, or once a year with COVID.

DrPhilG · 26-12-2020 8:53pm

I can't afford a longer range BEV, I don't want to go back to a petrol.

The Rex is ideal for my current needs but as soon as I can upgrade back into a BEV I will do.

26-12-2020 11:09pm

DrPhilG wrote: »

I can't afford a longer range BEV, I don't want to go back to a petrol.

The Rex is ideal for my current needs but as soon as I can upgrade back into a BEV I will do.

When I change to something else it will be BEV only because there's nothing else but I would definitely miss the Rex.

KCross · 26-12-2020 11:16pm

For the Rex lovers... what motorway range would a BEV need to have before you would give up the Rex and buy the BEV (assuming the rapid infrastructure didn’t improve).

Just interested to know what the tipping point is for each of ye!

Ce he sin · 26-12-2020 11:17pm

80sDiesel wrote: »

One of the most popular small cars in Japan is the Nissan note e power. It’s a Rex but not a phev. The next gen quashai will have it here.

It's not entirely correct to call e-power cars range extenders as they have only a very small battery and a correspondingly very short electric range. The idea is that the engine runs at a steady and efficient speed to keep the battery topped up and starts and stops very frequently. In steady high speed driving the engine will run almost all the time which is inefficient and is why e-power has up to now only been used in markets with high traffic densities. The next Cashcow will have an improved version of e-power more suitable for us, but Nissan haven't yet said what form it'll take.

27-12-2020 12:03am

KCross wrote: »

For the Rex lovers... what motorway range would a BEV need to have before you would give up the Rex and buy the BEV (assuming the rapid infrastructure didn’t improve).

Just interested to know what the tipping point is for each of ye!

It's not just about the range it's the Public charging infrastructure + recharge times. The ID.3 is progress for the average man but it needs to improve a lot more + cold battery charging.

If I get another car it will have to be BEV because I'd have no choice but the convenience of the Rex just can't be emphasised enough.

But if nothing was to change with the public network then 600 Kms would have a real impact or recharge times.

I remember out old Honda CRV 2.0L Petrol needed a refill after around 300 miles that's 482 Kms, the difference is that it could be refilled in 1 min give or take.

I could live with less range if I could recharge in 10 mins and 10 mins in cold weather and if we had a much better network.

DrPhilG · 27-12-2020 1:07am

KCross wrote: »

For the Rex lovers... what motorway range would a BEV need to have before you would give up the Rex and buy the BEV (assuming the rapid infrastructure didn’t improve).

Just interested to know what the tipping point is for each of ye!

200 miles at full pelt in winter.

That would get me from Donegal to Belfast and back without a stop, or Donegal to Dublin with a destination charge or brief rapid on the way.

Alkers · 27-12-2020 10:41am

Interesting post OP, we have an Ampera which is pretty much what you describe although the engine can drive the car at motorway speeds (only when set to or if the battery is depleted).

The ev range covers my oh's commute each day without using any petrol and we tend to only use petrol if we need to do a long drive down the country etc. It's an ideal one car solution for us, it doesn't make much sense for us to fork out for a long range Bev to cover our irregular longer drives

27-12-2020 12:27pm

This is the thing, big heavy battery for more range or smaller battery with generator ?

Generator has so many advantages but sadly the Government cash in and charge more tax, they can't see the benefits just the cash flow so they can squander it.

30-60 Kwh with generator in every car and I guarantee they would sell a lot better than BEV, greatly reducing emissions and they can be made to run on biofuels, this solves range anxiety, waiting at chargers and installing a big expensive infrastructure.

Garage owners then don't have to go to the expense of installing chargers, they can simply replace diesel pumps with biofuel. We can then have a vast network of refuelling stations a lot faster than chargers.

Some day then maybe the generators can burn Hydrogen, it's said Hydrogen is the only solution to those on Gas networks which is a substantial amount of heating and there are trials at the moment I think in Scotland.

It's obviously a lot more difficult to install hydrogen at petrol stations but bio fuels is a great alternative and we wouldn't need quarter as much biofuels in a long range PHEV as we would with ICE only and we greatly reduce emissions and reliance on Oil and can fill up far easier at petrol stations then charge the car when we're back home.

Busman Paddy Lasty · 27-12-2020 12:44pm

Would happily have a 32kWh Niro REx. 32kWh would suit 90% of journeys and the REx as backup for the rest. Having two of these on the road versus one eNiro is a better use of the batteries IMO.

27-12-2020 3:36pm

There's a reason the uptake of electrics is so poor, well, more than a few that is....

1: Range which is greatly effected by weather/speed

2: Recharge times which can greatly increase when the battery is cold.

3: Poor infrastructure

4: lack of choice

5: Cost

I think those 5 are the top reasons. Not in order as they will vary from Person to Person.

The Rex would at least solve 1, 2 and 3 making the uptake of electric or PHEV much greater.

Rex would mean no real need for beyond 60 Kwh battery greatly reducing the need for battery cells making more available for more cars.

Rex on biofuels means no big investment in infrastructure is needed. So what if there's a little bit more maintenance ? the Rex has proven reliable and it's likely it will still be going long after the Battery provide useful range.

One think I have learned since 3 years of Leaf driving is that the backup of the Rex is worth a lot more than the ability to brag about driving pure BEV!

McGiver · 30-12-2020 5:27pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The BMW i3 Rex is the only PHEV ever made that has absolutely no mechanical connectivity to the wheels and the only PHEV where the driver has complete control as to when it activates or not, that is from 75% charge to 6.5%.

You won't get many favourable comments about the Rex here because those that don't have it have to queue at chargers, suffer cold battery extended charging periods, broken chargers, idiots IC'ing parking spaces etc etc and have a go at Rex owners with comments like, "the Rex isn't relevant today" "battery capacity is much greater now" "charging has got faster" all true except that the Rex is relevant and very much so to it's owners but one thing hasn't changed and that's Ireland's appalling charging infrastructure.

The Rex also eliminates any increased charge times due to a cold battery which can add significant time to charging.

The Rex also means you do not have to slow down on the Motorway.

The Rex eliminates range loss due to bad weather.

The Rex eliminates battery degradation issues But so far the 94Ah battery is proving to be extremely robust and I haven't observed any noticeable loss of capacity in nearly 4 years and 103,000 Kms a stark contrast to my 2015 Leaf after 3 years and 85,000 Kms.

The Rex tank fills up in 10 seconds and you can carry on your journey.

It's a shame there wasn't a bio fuel version but the Irish Government killed bio fuels with tax over night and could have been a good alternative to Diesel.

The future, hydrogen ? a small hydrogen fuel cell or an ICE that burns hydrogen would be really sweet, refuel in seconds or add a larger tank for more range.

Some say Electric cars will win out but I think that EV will not be suitable for many People in large countries that want to travel big distances between countries or states in the USA for instance where it wouldn't be uncommon for People there to drive 2 or 3 states away where we have no option but to take a plane or ferry if we want to leave the Island and car manufacturers are going to build cars that suit the larger countries and not what we want or need on a small Island.

I was thinking about getting a new EV but a few things stopped me, the main one being the Rex, it's just too convenient, the battery meets most of my needs and a larger battery would meet even more except for when I need to put the boot down in bad weather, I would inevitably need to charge regardless and the convenience of not having to stop at a charger and as I experienced in Kilcullen last week, wait 20 mins and charge 20 mins, Rex allows me to miss this entirely but I decided while I was there and on the phone to wait.

The 2nd thing that stopped me getting a new EV is my mileage, it's just too much and I've been paying for a car now for 5 years and this has to stop at some point for a few years and let the car earn for a change.

The Rex has been 100% reliable, no issues at all, most of the Rex related issues were fixed before the 94Ah battery was released and the Rex in the 94 Ah is more powerful and I never experienced any power loss even with 6.5% battery at 120 Km/hr on the Motorway.

You're much more likely to have issues with a Tesla than a Rex.

Totally agree. Even 120 Ah i3 would warrant a REx.

And as you said - we could use H2, ethanol, even LPG/CNG or whatever in future. The concept is great.

It's not really a PHEV or classic hybrid, it's just a back-up generator or mobile personal charging device that's all that it is! Not a hybrid vehicle of any sort in fact...

Having recently experienced the cold-gate on my i3 (getting 35 kW per hour before charging losses)...I'm supportive of Mad Lad!:cool:

McGiver · 30-12-2020 5:39pm

slave1 wrote: »

Just another variant of a PHEV. Marketing have them as progressive step to a pure BEV but really it makes no sense for a battery to be paired with an emission motor.
Just my humble opinion, proper range BEVs are here now so skip these Dino Juicers

No, it's not a PHEV in any way. It's a BEV with a mobile personal charging device back-up which happens to run on petrol.

It's completely different than a mild hybrid, PHEV or the e-power gizmo by design. E-power design would be closest of these three, but it's not exactly it. E-power car needs petrol to be able to run at all, it's fully dependent on petrol as the battery is tiny (and only an intermediate storage of energy). BEV + REx doesn't need petrol to run and REx is not needed to move the car, you don't have to use it at all, I think it needs to be fired on once in X months for maintenance purposes but that's it. It's a brilliant concept, in fact.

30-12-2020 5:59pm

McGiver wrote: »

Totally agree. Even 120 Ah i3 would warrant a REx.

And as you said - we could use H2, ethanol, even LPG/CNG or whatever in future. The concept is great.

It's not really a PHEV or classic hybrid, it's just a back-up generator or mobile personal charging device that's all that it is! Not a hybrid vehicle of any sort in fact...

Having recently experienced the cold-gate on my i3 (getting 35 kW per hour before charging losses)...I'm supportive of Mad Lad!:cool:

35 Kw, I've seen as low as 22 Kw on DC when the battery is cold enough, that's 22 Kw shown on the charger so probably less going to the i3. It also becomes sluggish on acceleration.

With hydrogen you don't even have to bother with a fuel cell, just burn it directly in an ICE, simple and effective.

I really think we're heading in the wrong direction with rolling out a poor charging infrastructure slowly. It would be far faster and cheaper just to dump biofuels into existing diesel tanks and probably could even use the same pumps.

The Government are also wrong by charging more tax on a Rex like system because sure, it burns petrol but it also substantially reduces emissions because it can drive so far on Electric and by charging more tax and making it more expensive they're more likely to force someone to buy a Diesel instead.

I'd only favour no increased tax on a Rex with a 30+ Kwh battery and provided it's like the i3 where there is absolutely no mechanical connectivity from ICE to the wheels.

30-12-2020 6:07pm

McGiver wrote: »

No, it's not a PHEV in any way. It's a BEV with a mobile personal charging device back-up which happens to run on petrol.

It's completely different than a mild hybrid, PHEV or the e-power gizmo by design. E-power design would be closest of these three, but it's not exactly it. E-power car needs petrol to be able to run at all, it's fully dependent on petrol as the battery is tiny (and only an intermediate storage of energy). BEV + REx doesn't need petrol to run and REx is not needed to move the car, you don't have to use it at all, I think it needs to be fired on once in X months for maintenance purposes but that's it. It's a brilliant concept, in fact.

It falls into the PHEV category because there isn't anything else for it to fall into because there is nothing else like it on the road and a lot of People don't know how the system works including the Government clowns.

I guarantee if there was a 40 Kwh Qashqai with Rex and a 60 Kwh Qashqai without Rex I would bet the 40 Kwh Rex would be the best seller, if of course there was no major price difference but having increased tax on such a system would be crazy, bad enough on the i3, this should really change.

If I had that option to make I would choose the 40 Kwh, why ? because it would have enough range for most of my needs and the Rex for the rest which would eliminate the hassles of Public charging entirely + the increased charge times with a cold battery. Better to have it than want it.

liamog · 30-12-2020 6:32pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I guarantee if there was a 40 Kwh Qashqai with Rex and a 60 Kwh Qashqai without Rex I would bet the 40 Kwh Rex would be the best seller, if of course there was no major price difference but having increased tax on such a system would be crazy, bad enough on the i3, this should really change.

Your paying €50 a year for the privilege of all those times you get to drive past an occupied charger, it's not the end of the world.

Kramer · 30-12-2020 6:48pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I guarantee if there was a 40 Kwh Qashqai with Rex and a 60 Kwh Qashqai without Rex I would bet the 40 Kwh Rex would be the best seller,.

A 60kWh Qashqai would cover 99.999% of daily driving for 99.999% of Irish drivers.
For the remaining journeys requiring infrequent public charging, 2x 150kW chargers, every 125km along major interurban motorways/national routes, would cover the remainder.

REx is dead, a dinosaur, obsolete, antiquated.

ba_barabus · 30-12-2020 10:09pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I guarantee if there was a 40 Kwh Qashqai

I posted much earlier on about E Power in the thread but I've been reading since. The dealer I spoke with said that the E Power Qashqai due at the end of 2021 that he was suggesting I wait for, had a 40kwh battery, with plug in and a BEV setup hence why its really peaked my interest. It would suit me in every single way. I'd snap his hand off for it.

Busman Paddy Lasty · 31-12-2020 9:48am

ba_barabus wrote: »

I posted much earlier on about E Power in the thread but I've been reading since. The dealer I spoke with said that the E Power Qashqai due at the end of 2021 that he was suggesting I wait for, had a 40kwh battery, with plug in and a BEV setup hence why its really peaked my interest. It would suit me in every single way. I'd snap his hand off for it.

That's a quite a difference from current e-power set up. The Note has less than 2kWh. Here's hoping for a 40kWh battery but I doubt it.

ba_barabus · 31-12-2020 10:45am

Busman Paddy Lasty wrote: »

That's a quite a difference from current e-power set up. The Note has less than 2kWh. Here's hoping for a 40kWh battery but I doubt it.

Could be, could also be complete rubbish but its worth the wait for me if its true.

80sDiesel · 31-12-2020 12:49pm

It’s down to cost really as the e-power has the ice and inverter so it can’t have a large battery. If it tries to be a Jack of all trades....

It is an interesting concept and if they get the balance right it may be very successful. It’s two cars in one. Stored charge for short journeys and efficient ice charging for longer journeys.
For me who only needs to do one long commute to the office once a week it really fits the bill. The heart says Ariya but the head may think differently.

Guess you could call it a ‘self charging EV’

liamog · 31-12-2020 2:32pm

Personally, I'm not a fan of the e-power systems, I prefer the REX approach of the I3, it's as much about people dipping the toe into plug in cars as it is enabling electro mobility. e-power is just a petrol driven car with different mechanism to turn petrol into motion.

McGiver · 01-01-2021 11:03am

Deleted User wrote:

The Government are also wrong by charging more tax on a Rex like system because sure, it burns petrol but it also substantially reduces emissions because it can drive so far on Electric and by charging more tax and making it more expensive they're more likely to force someone to buy a Diesel instead.

I believe i3 Rex is classed as BEV in the UK. Hence zero motor tax.

Classing it as PHEV here is crazy and wrong. You may actually be 0g of CO2/km most of the time with the i3 as you may use it once a month! "Average" CO2 emmisions are impossible to calculate for it, because there's no average. If they officially, and that's what the Gov/Revenue use I guess, consider daily usage and calculate CO2 like that then it's wrong.

And a bit of OT - Of course ANY motor tax on BEV (including the i3 Rex) is a joke here in the Ireland. The gov is getting measle money for that maybe 2M but the optics of that are very bad, if it was 0 tax it shows the gov really support the EVs. 2M is nothing in terms of the budget, increase alcohol or tobacco duty by 1c and it's offset.

01-01-2021 7:44pm

McGiver wrote: »

I believe i3 Rex is classed as BEV in the UK. Hence zero motor tax.

Classing it as PHEV here is crazy and wrong. You may actually be 0g of CO2/km most of the time with the i3 as you may use it once a month! "Average" CO2 emmisions are impossible to calculate for it, because there's no average. If they officially, and that's what the Gov/Revenue use I guess, consider daily usage and calculate CO2 like that then it's wrong.

And a bit of OT - Of course ANY motor tax on BEV (including the i3 Rex) is a joke here in the Ireland. The gov is getting measle money for that maybe 2M but the optics of that are very bad, if it was 0 tax it shows the gov really support the EVs. 2M is nothing in terms of the budget, increase alcohol or tobacco duty by 1c and it's offset.

The Irish Government look for any excuse to relieve Big foreign Corporations of tax while thinking of great ways to screw Irish People so it's no surprise that the Rex is Taxed.

01-01-2021 7:48pm

liamog wrote: »

Your paying €50 a year for the privilege of all those times you get to drive past an occupied charger, it's not the end of the world.

Yes it is well worth it, apart from passing occupied chargers it allows me to maintain a decent speed on the motorway without having to slow down + I don't have to worry about increased charge times if the battery is cold.

It's not just the 50 Euro's a year, the Rex has the potential to greatly reduce emissions because it might convince more people to go the EV route without having to worry about range and more would probably buy it if it was still available but the extra VRT made the purchase more expensive which was completely unnecessary.

01-01-2021 8:00pm

Kramer wrote: »

A 60kWh Qashqai would cover 99.999% of daily driving for 99.999% of Irish drivers.
For the remaining journeys requiring infrequent public charging, 2x 150kW chargers, every 125km along major interurban motorways/national routes, would cover the remainder.

REx is dead, a dinosaur, obsolete, antiquated.

Rex is dead because BMW killed it prematurely because at the time the decision was made they were going to stop production of the i3 under Harald Krüge but then Oliver Zipse decided to keep it in production for another while but after BMW claimed the 40 Kwh had "plenty of range"they probably didn't want to go back on this and bring back the Rex.

Yeah, 150 Kw chargers are nice if an EV could maintain this for any length of time and didn't suffer in the cold but an expensive EV infrastructure isn't necessary if a Rex can run on biofuel and in the future Hydrogen, then there's no waiting at chargers and no issues in the cold, broken chargers, queues.

In other words, the Rex allows an EV to work as most People expect and want of a Car and that is the ability to go anywhere any time without having to stop for 30mins to 1 hr+ and has all the range they want and expect of a modern car.

the_amazing_raisin · 01-01-2021 10:48pm

Some places I could see a range extender being useful would be on emergency vehicles or off road vehicles

I think I saw an article about a tunnel evacuation vehicle in Sweden which uses electric only when in the tunnel so it doesn't produce harmful exhaust fumes but can use a petrol backup outside the tunnel if needed

If you take the example of an ambulance or fire truck I think this is a great place where a rex is useful. It can use mostly electric propulsion and get all the benefits from an EV. But if there's a call while the vehicle is recharging then the range extender will kick in and keep the vehicle going

It also give the advantage of having dual fuel options so in the event that your electricity or fuel supply is unavailable then you have the other as a backup. I think this would make it suitable for off road vehicles as well

Electrified trucks could also have generators attached which would allow it to recharge during stops in areas where the infrastructure isn't there yet. It isn't ideal, but it does mean you can run the generator at constant load which is when they're most fuel efficient, which is probably better than a diesel spewing truck constantly changing gears

If the system was modular, then the generator could later be swapped out for more batteries or some hydrogen fuel cells, depending on what the need is and what infrastructure is available

liamog · 02-01-2021 2:15am

Deleted User wrote: »

In other words, the Rex allows an EV to work as most People expect and want of a Car and that is the ability to go anywhere any time without having to stop for 30mins to 1 hr+ and has all the range they want and expect of a modern car.

So seen as those you don't have to live with the downsides of a BEV, it's somewhat fair that you only obtain half the financial incentives. Nice catch on the VRT rates, I hadn't accounted for them.

Why not more range-extended electrics?

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