The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

Duffy the Vampire Slayer · 21-12-2020 11:11PM

awaywithyou wrote: »

no they wouldnt.... those of ye that think that Kerry are snapping at the heels of the dubs and are going to end there reign will be disappointed.. 5-in-a-row at minor gets mentioned.. the firsrt winning minor team was the 2014 minors.. them lads are now 24 going on 25.. no senior medals.. meanwhile eoin murchan also 24 has 4 all ireland medals and bryan howard who is younger has 3 medals.... kerry have alot of work to do to beat dublin and i cant see it happening anytime soon... and thats not yerra yerra talk by me either..

There's really no reason to suspect Kerry will beat Dublin.

kilns · 21-12-2020 11:13PM

NW_10 wrote: »

We're only discussing it because Dubs keep bringing up the hurlers deflect from discussing the dominance of the football team. That's why this thread was created. Your point about the hurlers has already been debunked several times.

Read the title of the thread, Dublin GAA everything is relevant, like it or not, the hurlers get the same benefits as the footballers

Debunked??? How?? By who?

As a newbie to boards (or what's your other username here) you should read back on this thread

NW_10 · 21-12-2020 11:16PM

kilns wrote: »

Read the title of the thread, Dublin GAA everything is relevant, like it or not, the hurlers get the same benefits as the footballers

Debunked??? By who?

As a newbie to boards (or what's your other username here) you should read back on this thread

I've read the title but the conversation right from the start was always about the dominance of the football team. I know that because I went back and looked through the thread. As for your last comment. I honestly feel sorry for you. That's the best you can come up with?

kilns · 21-12-2020 11:22PM

quote="NW_10;115680835"]I've read the title but the conversation right from the start was always about the dominance of the football team. I know that because I went back and looked through the thread. As for your last comment. I honestly feel sorry for you. That's the best you can come up with?[/quote]

Ha ha so who were you previously and did you get banned from the forum?

But I'll explain what has been discussed previously on this thread as you are only seemingly new. The Dublin footballers and hurlers have all the same equal advantages yet Footballers have won 6 in a row and the hurlers have gone backwards in that same period

It's actually the crux of the thread explaining why.

NW_10 · 21-12-2020 11:25PM

kilns wrote: »

quote="NW_10;115680835"]I've read the title but the conversation right from the start was always about the dominance of the football team. I know that because I went back and looked through the thread. As for your last comment. I honestly feel sorry for you. That's the best you can come up with?

Ha ha so who were you previously and did you get banned from the forum?

But I'll explain what has been discussed previously on this thread as you are only seemingly new. The Dublin footballers and hurlers have all the same equal advantages yet Footballers have won 6 in a row and the hurlers have gone backwards in that same period

It's actually the crux of the thread explaining why.[/quote]

My other profiles are all the others criticising the GAA here.

And I'm not being serious if you can't tell.

RIGOLO · 21-12-2020 11:33PM

Dublin are the ALL-CROKER champions.. its a bit of a stretch to call them the ALL-Ireland Champions .

Ive played plenty of sport in my time, in a number of countries. Im well familiar with travelling long distances around Ireland, the US and on the continent to get to events whether I was competing in it with a team or as an individual. Away matches travelling large distances to the likes of Dublin would always take it out of you adding 24-48 hours to the recovery process compared to a Dub player who begins the recovery process 60 mins after their shower. The long trip home often means you never fully recovered in fact cos turnaround to the next training session meant you body never got the benefits of begining recovery immediately after the event. Its a world of difference.

In the professional era where margins are relatively slim , getting back to your home 1 hour after a match is a world of difference between getting back 6-8 hours after a cramped bus or car journey. Thats not a 5 hour difference in recovery time, thats effectively a full day between when a professional can begin their recovery .

Its hasnt been a level playing field for a decade, until Dublin are made to come out of their Croke Park bubble nothing will change, and they will always have that edge.

Theres a reason bookies always give a home team lower odds.

Some of the Dub players with multiple ALL IRELAND medals have NEVER played a championship match outside Croke Park.. they should be called ALL-CROKER champions.

Its like watching the fix when it was in for Barcelona in La Liga, there was a time La Liga fixtures always somehow managed to make the schedule perfect for them and ****e for Athletico and Real . Theres a 100 other professional sports that know the edge of home field advantage and not having to travel.

Theres been a million examples of competing away from home having an impact on teams, individual players, picking up knocks, not recovering properly. Just look at the modern day Europa league, all the teams playing on Thurs are fked come the weekend. Its an undisputable fact AWAY matches take alot out of teams. Yes I know GAA dont turn around their games in 3 days , but the point is the away match has drained the players reserves and theres only so much reserves in the the tank for a season, if its constantly getting drained then come crunch time end of season its the margin of difference for winning the final or just finding it out of reach.

Anyone who claims Dublin playing ALL their championship matches at home makes no difference in a modern era where the bulk of GAA players are basically full-time professional athletes, has never played high level sport.
Coming down the stretch into the quarter, semi and final stage of a long season, thats when the extra 40 or 50 hours the other teams will have spent in their transport, the lost sleep, the quick food grabbed on the go will all catch up in a professional setting.

I dont rate Dublins achievements as genuine.

They year they have a few Leinster Championship matches outside Croker and a quarter and a semi away in the likes of McHale Park or Fitzgerald stadium throwing in a replay or two , then they can call themselves ALL-IRELAND champions, until then lets call em what they are .. the ALL-CROKER champions..
IMO until then any claims to them being repeat All Ireland champions is as empty as if Liverpool winning the PL after playing all their matches in Anfield and calling themselves PL champions.

WesternZulu · 22-12-2020 12:14AM

kilns wrote: »

Read the title of the thread, Dublin GAA everything is relevant, like it or not, the hurlers get the same benefits as the footballers

Debunked??? How?? By who?

As a newbie to boards (or what's your other username here) you should read back on this thread

The reason Dublin hurlers don't benefit to the same extent as the footballers from funding is purely down to the success of the footballers.

Dublin hurlers have come an awful long way in the past 20 years due to central funding. To say otherwise is disingenuous. Image how good they'd be if they'd the likes of Connolly, Kilkenny, Con O'Callahan, and many others available to them!

ooter · 22-12-2020 12:22AM

Dublin have had 6 away games in the championship between 2016 and 2019, would've been at least 2 more this year in a normal championship.

EICVD · 22-12-2020 12:29AM

RIGOLO wrote: »

Dublin are the ALL-CROKER champions.. its a bit of a stretch to call them the ALL-Ireland Champions .

Ive played plenty of sport in my time, in a number of countries. Im well familiar with travelling long distances around Ireland, the US and on the continent to get to events whether I was competing in it with a team or as an individual. Away matches travelling large distances to the likes of Dublin would always take it out of you adding 24-48 hours to the recovery process compared to a Dub player who begins the recovery process 60 mins after their shower. The long trip home often means you never fully recovered in fact cos turnaround to the next training session meant you body never got the benefits of begining recovery immediately after the event. Its a world of difference.

In the professional era where margins are relatively slim , getting back to your home 1 hour after a match is a world of difference between getting back 6-8 hours after a cramped bus or car journey. Thats not a 5 hour difference in recovery time, thats effectively a full day between when a professional can begin their recovery .

Its hasnt been a level playing field for a decade, until Dublin are made to come out of their Croke Park bubble nothing will change, and they will always have that edge.

Theres a reason bookies always give a home team lower odds.

Some of the Dub players with multiple ALL IRELAND medals have NEVER played a championship match outside Croke Park.. they should be called ALL-CROKER champions.

Its like watching the fix when it was in for Barcelona in La Liga, there was a time La Liga fixtures always somehow managed to make the schedule perfect for them and ****e for Athletico and Real . Theres a 100 other professional sports that know the edge of home field advantage and not having to travel.

Theres been a million examples of competing away from home having an impact on teams, individual players, picking up knocks, not recovering properly. Just look at the modern day Europa league, all the teams playing on Thurs are fked come the weekend. Its an undisputable fact AWAY matches take alot out of teams. Yes I know GAA dont turn around their games in 3 days , but the point is the away match has drained the players reserves and theres only so much reserves in the the tank for a season, if its constantly getting drained then come crunch time end of season its the margin of difference for winning the final or just finding it out of reach.

Anyone who claims Dublin playing ALL their championship matches at home makes no difference in a modern era where the bulk of GAA players are basically full-time professional athletes, has never played high level sport.
Coming down the stretch into the quarter, semi and final stage of a long season, thats when the extra 40 or 50 hours the other teams will have spent in their transport, the lost sleep, the quick food grabbed on the go will all catch up in a professional setting.

I dont rate Dublins achievements as genuine.

They year they have a few Leinster Championship matches outside Croker and a quarter and a semi away in the likes of McHale Park or Fitzgerald stadium throwing in a replay or two , then they can call themselves ALL-IRELAND champions, until then lets call em what they are .. the ALL-CROKER champions..
IMO until then any claims to them being repeat All Ireland champions is as empty as if Liverpool winning the PL after playing all their matches in Anfield and calling themselves PL champions.

It’s a shame then the GAA records aren’t down to what you think

kilns · 22-12-2020 12:38AM

WesternZulu wrote: »

The reason Dublin hurlers don't benefit to the same extent as the footballers from funding is purely down to the success of the footballers.

Dublin hurlers have come an awful long way in the past 20 years due to central funding. To say otherwise is disingenuous. Image how good they'd be if they'd the likes of Connolly, Kilkenny, Con O'Callahan, and many others available to them!

They came a long way and peaked in 2013 and that was from a core group of players who achieved minor success before the structures and funding was implemented.

So many what ifs there you can not base an argument on that. Footballers who happen to be decent club hurlers or decent minors. Only OCallaghan would be a star in either code

But it still does not explain why with all it's advantages Dublin has not progressed and is in a worse off position than what it was 7 years ago

RoyalCelt · 22-12-2020 12:46AM

ooter wrote: »

Maybe if the Dublin senior hurlers ever get to an all ireland final we might find out in the programme how big their backroom team is.

They would have gotten to a final in 2013 I think it was if it wasn't for that lad getting the red card for lashing out. Would have ran clare close in the final too. Dublin are really not that far away in hurling and it's surely a matter of time before they make the final. And that's some going considering they play second fiddle in every regard to the footballers including losing players who could be absolute stars at hurling.

tobefrank321 · 22-12-2020 01:00AM

kilns wrote: »

Not deflecting it's what we have been discussing

The fact you can't admit the Dublin senior hurling team are not at same level as they were in 2013 means we should move on

If the gaa put 10 million into Cork gaa, 9 million would be spent on hurling and 1 million on football. The opposite would happen in Dublin. Counties put resources where they think they have the best chance of winning. And why would a talented young Dublin dual player bother with hurling when theres handy Leinsters and AIs to be had in football.

tobefrank321 · 22-12-2020 01:05AM

ooter wrote: »

Dublin have had 6 away games in the championship between 2016 and 2019, would've been at least 2 more this year in a normal championship.

Kerry had 7 away games and Dublin had 7 home games in 2019.

In what other sport apart from the farce that is gaelic football would that be fair?

Trey13 · 22-12-2020 01:21AM

A lot of people talk about the fact that there is an endless conveyor belt of talent coming through. I don’t see it that way at all. Apart from the lads aged 25-27 now that have always been touted as a special group, there aren’t many players at that level coming through. Bugler and Small this year were good but not excellent. Howard has been outstanding obviously.

But you still have lads like McMahon, Kev Mc, Brogan and O’Gara last year, McAuley etc hanging around and getting limited gametime. If the talent was there it would be coming through in place of these lads. Lahiff got a championship debut this year at the age of 25.

I don’t see the conveyor belt that people talk about. Once the older lads retire and that bracket of 25-27 year olds kick on, Dublin won’t be dominant. It’s an exceptional group of players.

RoyalCelt · 22-12-2020 01:35AM

Trey13 wrote: »

A lot of people talk about the fact that there is an endless conveyor belt of talent coming through. I don’t see it that way at all. Apart from the lads aged 25-27 now that have always been touted as a special group, there aren’t many players at that level coming through. Bugler and Small this year were good but not excellent. Howard has been outstanding obviously.

But you still have lads like McMahon, Kev Mc, Brogan and O’Gara last year, McAuley etc hanging around and getting limited gametime. If the talent was there it would be coming through in place of these lads. Lahiff got a championship debut this year at the age of 25.

I don’t see the conveyor belt that people talk about. Once the older lads retire and that bracket of 25-27 year olds kick on, Dublin won’t be dominant. It’s an exceptional group of players.

We had this exact same conversation years ago and yet we are still here. Dublin have the best u20 player in the country coming through and will be ready to replace rock the second his performances drop which in turn will probably raise his level or keep it high.

McAuley, McMahon, Andrews, Ken Mac and O'sullivan could have all retired this year and dublin would still walk it. 30/31 is quite a young age when you have the conditioning and set up of dublin and get challenged once or twice a year max.

Bar Cluxton they'll all be replaced long before they get near their chosen retirement age. And in reality his replacement just needs good kick outs because with their defence their isn't much shot stopping involved.

ArielAtom · 22-12-2020 01:35AM

NW_10 wrote: »

And the financial doping.

Do you even understand the definition of financial doping?

RoyalCelt · 22-12-2020 02:06AM

ArielAtom wrote: »

Do you even understand the definition of financial doping?

I Google it and found the following. The term was originally coined to describe soccer teams strengthening themselves through financial gain. As we know finances play a massive role in Dublins success and future potential.

"The term financial doping was coined to describe using money to strengthen sports teams."

"This leads to the key question as to whether this makes sport more predictable and therefore more boring. One of sports great appeals is unpredictability, the anxiety and excitement of what could be. Sports where you can predict the winner every time tend to be unengaging."

The above is basically leinster football and Dublin for 10 years now and the all Ireland for a lessor period.

" Financial doping, as you may choose to call it, increases success. Money talks"

"And let’s face it, are PSG a fairytale in France? All I keep hearing is that FFP stops fairytales. Has PSG’s obscene investment made the French league a better place? From the outside it seems like PSG fans win, while the fans of all the other clubs lose as the league becomes a mockery. How is that good for the sport? "

The above is pretty much dublin and Leinster again except even more extreme because at least they lost the league to Monaco once. Dublin won't ever lose leinster again.

" Also, there’s the argument that FFP stops wealthy individuals and groups from revitalising struggling clubs."

We all know they get around these rules but the equivalent in the gaa is saying in future every county should get equal funding per population. Which sounds fair but basically guarantees dublin continue to get more then the rest and stay on top.

Jesus the more I read into this financial doping the more it has dublin gaa written all over it. Of course you'll never get a dub to see it this way. Surely 31 other counties are wrong.

Strumms · 22-12-2020 02:32AM

What does the money do ?

PSG can buy the best players in the world.

Dublin ? Can’t buy players, can’t do anything at all...but train people and work hard to enable success... Dublin players have day jobs, families, are on college courses, have commitments... teachers, doctors, physiotherapists, anesthesiologists, students...

Many more clubs in Dublin, many more teams, players, facilities, administration of the sport is a ginormous undertaking and challenge....because so many people give of their time to play, help and participate across all games and ages...

The GAA still supports the sport nationwide... funding for all weather pitches ? Happening in Dublin but elsewhere too... 1 example..Sarsfields in Cork,many more besides, google will be your friend....

ArielAtom · 22-12-2020 07:59AM

RoyalCelt wrote: »

I Google it and found the following. The term was originally coined to describe soccer teams strengthening themselves through financial gain. As we know finances play a massive role in Dublins success and future potential.

"The term financial doping was coined to describe using money to strengthen sports teams."

"This leads to the key question as to whether this makes sport more predictable and therefore more boring. One of sports great appeals is unpredictability, the anxiety and excitement of what could be. Sports where you can predict the winner every time tend to be unengaging."

The above is basically leinster football and Dublin for 10 years now and the all Ireland for a lessor period.

" Financial doping, as you may choose to call it, increases success. Money talks"

"And let’s face it, are PSG a fairytale in France? All I keep hearing is that FFP stops fairytales. Has PSG’s obscene investment made the French league a better place? From the outside it seems like PSG fans win, while the fans of all the other clubs lose as the league becomes a mockery. How is that good for the sport? "

The above is pretty much dublin and Leinster again except even more extreme because at least they lost the league to Monaco once. Dublin won't ever lose leinster again.

" Also, there’s the argument that FFP stops wealthy individuals and groups from revitalising struggling clubs."

We all know they get around these rules but the equivalent in the gaa is saying in future every county should get equal funding per population. Which sounds fair but basically guarantees dublin continue to get more then the rest and stay on top.

Jesus the more I read into this financial doping the more it has dublin gaa written all over it. Of course you'll never get a dub to see it this way. Surely 31 other counties are wrong.

The Collins English dictionary has the actual meaning. It has no relation to how and why GAA funding for any county was devised and implemented. So the term used by so many disciples of the blogger from Athy is factually incorrect or to put it another way a lie.

tritium · 22-12-2020 08:24AM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Dublin footballers were always at a high level, maybe 90% as good as the best out there. The increase in gdf funding probably added 20% to their level and suddenly roles were reversed and Kerry, Tyrone and Mayo were 90% of Dublins level.

The Dublin hurlers were at maybe 50% as good as the best out there. A 20% increase in performance would still leave them 70% as good. They started from a much lower base. But the evidence is obvious, the hurlers have hugely improved, no question.

Seriously you embarrass yourself with stuff like this. Take a look at Dublins record pre 2011- neglected serial underachievers and the butt of the rest of the countries jolkes

Enquiring · 22-12-2020 08:28AM

Strumms wrote: »

What does the money do ?

PSG can buy the best players in the world.

Dublin ? Can’t buy players, can’t do anything at all...but train people and work hard to enable success... Dublin players have day jobs, families, are on college courses, have commitments... teachers, doctors, physiotherapists, anesthesiologists, students...

Many more clubs in Dublin, many more teams, players, facilities, administration of the sport is a ginormous undertaking and challenge....because so many people give of their time to play, help and participate across all games and ages...

The GAA still supports the sport nationwide... funding for all weather pitches ? Happening in Dublin but elsewhere too... 1 example..Sarsfields in Cork,many more besides, google will be your friend....

You can't buy players in GAA so player development is the key area to improving standards in football and hurling. On average, Dublin spend 3 million per year on professional coaches. These coaches focus solely on u18's. Player recruitment, player development and coach development are some of the main goals these officers have. For 2 decades these coaches have been in operation and have improved standards across the board. Nearly 100 titles in Dublin GAA since the funding.

Let's not forget, it's not just professional coaches, Dublin GAA have highly paid officers overseeing this. In conclusion, player creation is the essential area when targeting improvements in Gaelic games and Dublin have had a multi million euro operation in place throughout this century which is dedicated to this cause.

tritium · 22-12-2020 08:45AM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Kerry had 7 away games and Dublin had 7 home games in 2019.

In what other sport apart from the farce that is gaelic football would that be fair?

Do dublin force other teams to play in Croke park? Explain to me why all dublins games are there?if you could also explain how playing in Croke park overnight went from being a substantial disadvantage to a massive advantage in so many peoples eyes that would be great

ooter · 22-12-2020 08:53AM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Kerry had 7 away games and Dublin had 7 home games in 2019.

In what other sport apart from the farce that is gaelic football would that be fair?

Kerry had plenty of away games when they were winning Sams galore too. I reckon Dublin had a fair few "home" during those years too, not an eyelid was batted.

the kelt · 22-12-2020 08:55AM

kilns wrote: »

They came a long way and peaked in 2013 and that was from a core group of players who achieved minor success before the structures and funding was implemented.

So many what ifs there you can not base an argument on that. Footballers who happen to be decent club hurlers or decent minors. Only OCallaghan would be a star in either code

But it still does not explain why with all it's advantages Dublin has not progressed and is in a worse off position than what it was 7 years ago

Because they’ve got their managerial appointments wrong, they have success since 2013 at underage and haven’t brought them through, currently evidenced with a manager who prefers to bring back older players then bring through youth.

Since 2013 it’s been mismanagement of the Dublin hurlers at senior level, not some vain attempt to claim money makes no difference because ye picked the wrong managers.

Some of the deflection attempts here I have to say are Trumpian in their imaginings.

tritium · 22-12-2020 08:57AM

Enquiring wrote: »

You can't buy players in GAA so player development is the key area to improving standards in football and hurling. On average, Dublin spend 3 million per year on professional coaches. These coaches focus solely on u18's. Player recruitment, player development and coach development are some of the main goals these officers have. For 2 decades these coaches have been in operation and have improved standards across the board. Nearly 100 titles in Dublin GAA since the funding.

Let's not forget, it's not just professional coaches, Dublin GAA have highly paid officers overseeing this. In conclusion, player creation is the essential area when targeting improvements in Gaelic games and Dublin have had a multi million euro operation in place throughout this century which is dedicated to this cause.

Ah ah not so fast, under that model per capita becomes the only way to look at funding since you want to focus on your resource pool. By that yardstick:

In 2018 Dublin GAA was in receipt of 22 per cent of the central GAA distribution for games development. This is a high percentage figure. In 2016, the year of the most recent census, Dublin had 1,345,402 residents. That represents 28 per cent of the population of the Republic of Ireland.

But the GAA is an island of Ireland body and funding is based on 32 counties so in fact the percentage of the population which the Dublin Games Development funding has to serve is actually just under 21 per cent.

The team which Dublin beat on Saturday night was Meath. Meath had a population in 2016 of 195,044, or just under 3 per cent of the population. They received 6 per cent of the available games development funding from the central GAA.

https://sportforbusiness.com/is-dublin-gaa-funding-fair-and-proportionate/

Which indicates that the GAA have already addressed many of the issues and in fact are pumping funding elsewhere.

Now I appreciate that your conspiracy theory requires outrage if Meath don’t now get €10 million handed to them and start winning Leinster titles overnight, but in reality that’s not actually realistic on so many fronts

tritium · 22-12-2020 09:00AM

the kelt wrote: »

Because they’ve got their managerial appointments wrong, they have success since 2013 at underage and haven’t brought them through, currently evidenced with a manager who prefers to bring back older players then bring through youth.

Since 2013 it’s been mismanagement of the Dublin hurlers at senior level, not some vain attempt to claim money makes no difference because ye picked the wrong managers.

Some of the deflection attempts here I have to say are Trumpian in their imaginings.

Can you explain how you see mismanagement of the dublin hurlers as the reason for their failures but you’re not open to the superb management of the dublin footballers being the reason for their success?

Genuine question since they compete with the same county and have the same resources available

tritium · 22-12-2020 09:04AM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

If the gaa put 10 million into Cork gaa, 9 million would be spent on hurling and 1 million on football. The opposite would happen in Dublin. Counties put resources where they think they have the best chance of winning. And why would a talented young Dublin dual player bother with hurling when theres handy Leinsters and AIs to be had in football.

Except dublin made it very clear in their strategic plan that hurling was an areas they had ambitions to grow significantly. You really can’t use the “they’re just not bothered” arguement in this case

the kelt · 22-12-2020 09:12AM

tritium wrote: »

Can you explain how you see mismanagement of the dublin hurlers as the reason for their failures but you’re not open to the superb management of the dublin footballers being the reason for their success?

Genuine question since they compete with the same county and have the same resources available

Why who said I’m not open to the superb management of Jim Gavin et all being a factor in the footballers success?

It backs up my point, when the hurlers had a superb manager in place they were successful at senior level and haven’t had one since

The point I’m making is I don’t understand why there’s this attempt to rewrite history by forever claiming “well the hurlers haven’t won everything, explain that then”

Fair play to Dublin, they have made the most of every penny afforded to them, it’s a GAA problem, not Dublins but let’s at least admit an issue with funding exists. How much difference it made is basically a matter of debate because in reality we will never know.

tritium · 22-12-2020 09:22AM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Ah come on. Farrell took over and if anything they look even better. It aint the manager. Gavin would be nothing without all the advantages enjoyed by Dublin.

Gavin needs to prove himself elsewhere like all genuinely great managers, eg Mourinho, Ferguson and Guardiola in soccer, Micko in GAA and others.

What rubbish, he doesn’t need to prove anything to you or anyone else anyone more than Paisley, busby or Cody do

ooter · 22-12-2020 09:26AM

tritium wrote: »

Can you explain how you see mismanagement of the dublin hurlers as the reason for their failures but you’re not open to the superb management of the dublin footballers being the reason for their success?

Genuine question since they compete with the same county and have the same resources available

Thank you sir, was going to ask the very same question.

The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

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The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1