General Premier League Thread 2020-21 - Mod Notes in 1st post. [Updated 17/12/20]

20-12-2020 06:10PM

martyos121 wrote: »

...Bielsa and why his teams generally don’t win trophies.

There's also the problem that Man Utd have a sub who cost more than Bielsa's entire net spend.

I think that, more than any tactical naivety, might hurt Leeds title bid!

RasTa · 20-12-2020 06:13PM

It was cashed out after HT for less shown but hope it comes in now

super_furry · 20-12-2020 06:13PM

The Leeds players just aren't good enough to play this kind of football successfully at the top level. You need the best attackers available to make it work and while they were that in the Championship, they're out-classed in the Premier League. Put Bielsa in charge of a Real Madrid, Barcelona or Man City side and it would be fireworks.

Agent Coulson · 20-12-2020 06:14PM

Deleted User wrote: »

There's also the problem that Man Utd have a sub who cost more than Bielsa's entire net spend.

I think that, more than any tactical naivety, might hurt Leeds title bid!

Leeds spent £95m during the last transfer window that a very nice transfer spend for any team.

Mushy · 20-12-2020 06:17PM

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Leeds spent £95m during the last transfer window that a very nice transfer spend for any team.

That's the max value and its achievement based so may not go near that

martyos121 · 20-12-2020 06:19PM

Deleted User wrote: »

There's also the problem that Man Utd have a sub who cost more than Bielsa's entire net spend.

I think that, more than any tactical naivety, might hurt Leeds title bid!

Hell of a leap for you to glean “Leeds won’t win the title because of Bielsa’s playing style” from a post that speaks broadly of his career as a manager and his shortcomings (hence why he’s managing Leeds United and not a big team).

Nobody, and I mean nobody, is ever saying Leeds could be title contenders any time soon, Bielsa or no Bielsa.

cj maxx · 20-12-2020 06:19PM

What a miss from Leeds

super_furry · 20-12-2020 06:19PM

Comedy football.

Agent Coulson · 20-12-2020 06:21PM

6 -2 however if it ended 9 - 9 I wouldn't have been surprised.

fyfe79 · 20-12-2020 06:25PM

October: Utd concede 6 at home, Liverpool concede 7 away, in the same weekend.
December: Utd score 6 at home, Liverpool score 7 away, in the same weekend.

Funny old game, eh?

eigrod · 20-12-2020 06:27PM

Spurs 1st to 5th in a week. Mad.

Agent Coulson · 20-12-2020 06:29PM

eigrod wrote: »

Spurs 1st to 5th in a week. Mad.

Could be 6th if Chelsea win tomorrow and 7th if City win there game in hand and 8th if Villa win 2 of there 3 games in hand.

yourdeadwright · 20-12-2020 06:34PM

Liverpool & United concede 7 & 6 on the same weekend
Then score 7 & 6 on the same weekend weird

wanderer100 · 20-12-2020 06:41PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Liverpool & United concede 7 & 6 on the same weekend
Then score 7 & 6 on the same weekend weird

Illuminati confirmed

RobertKK · 20-12-2020 06:41PM

https://twitter.com/Squawka/status/1340727412250865668?s=20

Utopia Parkway · 20-12-2020 06:52PM

To use a Bill Simmonsism. Leeds are either the best bad side in the league or the worst good side.

Mushy · 20-12-2020 07:05PM

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

To use a Bill Simmonsism. Leeds are either the best bad side in the league or the worst good side.

If it gets a 17th place finish then happy days

Agent Coulson · 20-12-2020 07:35PM

I had now real care if WBA stayed up or went down before the sacked Billic now that they have Big Sam in I really hope they go down

Villa off to a good start 1 up.

ERG89 · 20-12-2020 07:51PM

2013's Jake Livermore sent off for a horrible challenge on Grealish. No need to even make the tackle where he was then.

eigrod · 20-12-2020 07:52PM

Red card. VAR will drive a traditionalist like Allardyce mad.

ArielAtom · 20-12-2020 07:55PM

ERG89 wrote: »

2013's Jake Livermore sent off for a horrible challenge on Grealish. No need to even make the tackle where he was then.

He got the ball, zero contact with Grealish, who made the most of it.

irelandrover · 20-12-2020 07:56PM

That's another tackle off the ball studs down on the ankle. But for some reason only a yellow.

ArielAtom · 20-12-2020 07:57PM

Hause makes contact, but that’s a yellow. Over the top challenge. Comical

adaminho · 20-12-2020 07:57PM

ArielAtom wrote: »

He got the ball, zero contact with Grealish, who made the most of it.

Worse, Hause gets only booked for worse!

~Rebel~ · 20-12-2020 08:10PM

super_furry wrote: »

The Leeds players just aren't good enough to play this kind of football successfully at the top level. You need the best attackers available to make it work and while they were that in the Championship, they're out-classed in the Premier League. Put Bielsa in charge of a Real Madrid, Barcelona or Man City side and it would be fireworks.

It depends on what you mean by top level - I mean they'd get decimated in the Champions League or something, but in the Premier League their players are good enough to play this way and get them around mid-table as a result, which would be a fantastic achievement coming up from the championship.

Against sides that are great on the counter they'll always struggle - losing to Leicester, Liverpool, Utd, Wolves and Palace as a result... but as a newly promoted side they'd have been expected to lose most of those games anyway, so why not go balls out every game, have a bit of craic, and see where it gets ya. Their approach has seen them smash Newcastle and Villa, beat Everton, Sheff U, and Fulham, and take points off Man City (and Arsenal, but who hasn't!).

They're way outperforming the other two teams that came up (have as many points as the other 2 put together), which is the benchmark to be watching. And they're having way more fun doing it.

Rather than getting the best players to play in the best way, I think Bielsa's biggest strength is almost the opposite - he gets a collection of average players to play a style way above themselves by getting them to buy into a shared vision, and die for each other to make it happen. Sure, it's not entirely consistent, but the level he elevates them to every second week is way above anything they could otherwise achieve.

(Though you're right that it would be great to see what he could do at a top top club - but I'm not convinced the players at an already top level club would buy into his self-sacrifice work ethic in the same way as clubs like Leeds and Bilbao do. Even Nketiah last season coming from Arsenal on loan seemed to find it beneath him.)

Anonymou · 20-12-2020 08:18PM

Comical from Peter Walton trying to explain away non red card for Villa, really is a joke at this stage. Both should have been reds.

billyhead · 20-12-2020 08:21PM

~Rebel~ wrote: »

It depends on what you mean by top level - I mean they'd get decimated in the Champions League or something, but in the Premier League their players are good enough to play this way and get them around mid-table as a result, which would be a fantastic achievement coming up from the championship.

Against sides that are great on the counter they'll always struggle - losing to Leicester, Liverpool, Utd, Wolves and Palace as a result... but as a newly promoted side they'd have been expected to lose most of those games anyway, so why not go balls out every game, have a bit of craic, and see where it gets ya. Their approach has seen them smash Newcastle and Villa, beat Everton, Sheff U, and Fulham, and take points off Man City (and Arsenal, but who hasn't!).

They're way outperforming the other two teams that came up (have as many points as the other 2 put together), which is the benchmark to be watching. And they're having way more fun doing it.

Rather than getting the best players to play in the best way, I think Bielsa's biggest strength is almost the opposite - he gets a collection of average players to play a style way above themselves by getting them to buy into a shared vision, and die for each other to make it happen. Sure, it's not entirely consistent, but the level he elevates them to every second week is way above anything they could otherwise achieve.

(Though you're right that it would be great to see what he could do at a top top club - but I'm not convinced the players at an already top level club would buy into his self-sacrifice work ethic in the same way as clubs like Leeds and Bilbao do. Even Nketiah last season coming from Arsenal on loan seemed to find it beneath him.)

They spend a lot more money than the other promoted teams.

20-12-2020 08:25PM

~Rebel~ wrote: »

It depends on what you mean by top level - I mean they'd get decimated in the Champions League or something, but in the Premier League their players are good enough to play this way and get them around mid-table as a result, which would be a fantastic achievement coming up from the championship.

Against sides that are great on the counter they'll always struggle - losing to Leicester, Liverpool, Utd, Wolves and Palace as a result... but as a newly promoted side they'd have been expected to lose most of those games anyway, so why not go balls out every game, have a bit of craic, and see where it gets ya. Their approach has seen them smash Newcastle and Villa, beat Everton, Sheff U, and Fulham, and take points off Man City (and Arsenal, but who hasn't!).

They're way outperforming the other two teams that came up (have as many points as the other 2 put together), which is the benchmark to be watching. And they're having way more fun doing it.

Rather than getting the best players to play in the best way, I think Bielsa's biggest strength is almost the opposite - he gets a collection of average players to play a style way above themselves by getting them to buy into a shared vision, and die for each other to make it happen. Sure, it's not entirely consistent, but the level he elevates them to every second week is way above anything they could otherwise achieve.

(Though you're right that it would be great to see what he could do at a top top club - but I'm not convinced the players at an already top level club would buy into his self-sacrifice work ethic in the same way as clubs like Leeds and Bilbao do. Even Nketiah last season coming from Arsenal on loan seemed to find it beneath him.)

That's a very good analysis, it's alll about a system...a very attractive system that sees players pile forward...and players who are invested in that system. He has transformed players like Bamford and Ayling, he has coached them and others into becoming essential players...within his system. And as you correctly note, it can only work with certain players, and at a certain level.

adaminho · 20-12-2020 08:26PM

billyhead wrote: »

They spend a lot more money than the other promoted teams.

My last Leeds home game was a 1-1 draw with Sunderland in April 2018 under Paul Heckingbottom and finished mid table to a team that went down! Today 9 of that squad were involved plus two injured!

20-12-2020 08:28PM

billyhead wrote: »

They spend a lot more money than the other promoted teams.

This season.

They've spent nothing like teams promoted in previous seasons, like Villa (to survive by a point) and Fulham, who went down.

They've also kept a very tight wage structure, the wages of Mitrovic alone at Fulham dwarf anything Leeds pay.

General Premier League Thread 2020-21 - Mod Notes in 1st post. [Updated 17/12/20]

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