Does Sinn Fein have a social media problem?

Chips Lovell · 19-12-2020 8:41am #1

Hot on the heals of Brian Stanley's apology to the Dail this week, the Irish Times this morning has an expose on a secret Facebook group called "Sinn Fein" with around 16,000 supporters as members. The party has had to ask Facebook to have it taken down.

There are a couple of worrying aspects of this for the party.

The three administrators were party activists, one of whom "campaigned heavily" for Cavan TD Pauline Tully in the general election.
Two TDs (Martin Kenny and Violet Anne Wynne) along with multiple councillors were members.
Fianna Fail senator Malcolm Byrne flagged the group to Sinn Fein TD Eoin O'Broin earlier this year, but rather than the group being taken down, it was taken private instead (there is no indication that party HQ was aware those behind it had taken it private).

What's startling is the lack of awareness amongst those running and participating in the group of how bad it was going to look should its contents ever come to light.

looksee · 19-12-2020 9:45am

It appears to establish that

Some people who are Sinn Fein supporters are racists and bigots with no more imagination than to offer violence to anything they take a negative notion about.
Sinn Fein the party are lacking in awareness of how social media works.
Rather than try and alter the mindset of a significant number of their followers they just tried and failed to remove the evidence. When it went out of sight they were satisfied with that solution.
They apparently made no attempt to discipline the TDs and officials who were part of the public site.

On the whole it sounds like any political party 'doing politics'. They are just not very clever about it. Presumably gestures will be made now it is a nine-day wonder, but you only have to look at the US and Trump to see the extent to which expectations dictate acceptance of behaviour.

Nody · 19-12-2020 9:50am

Chips Lovell wrote: »

Hot on the heals of Brian Stanley's apology to the Dail this week, the Irish Times this morning has an expose on a secret Facebook group called "Sinn Fein" with around 16,000 supporters as members. The party has had to ask Facebook to have it taken down.

There are a couple of worrying aspects of this for the party.
The three administrators were party activists, one of whom "campaigned heavily" for Cavan TD Pauline Tully in the general election.

Two TDs (Martin Kenny and Violet Anne Wynne) along with multiple councillors were members.

Fianna Fail senator Malcolm Byrne flagged the group to Sinn Fein TD Eoin O'Broin earlier this year, but rather than the group being taken down, it was taken private instead (there is no indication that party HQ was aware those behind it had taken it private).

What's startling is the lack of awareness amongst those running and participating in the group of how bad it was going to look should its contents ever come to light.

Sorry but I'll have to disagree with you that it's a Sinn Fein problem; it's a general problem. I'm quite certain you could find (if you had the right connections) same groups for most parties with expressing similar extreme views. I've seen police caught out at least twice for example in similar "private" groups talking about court cases and how "they should have shot the god damn n-word etc. The problem is not Sinn Fein; the problem is that the closed groups created (be it Facebook, Whats app or what ever system used) to be a bit of a safe heaven for like minded people and to be able to discuss items of interest without everyone butting in. The problem is it usually creates the mother of all echo chambers as people take one step closer to the line, not being called out on it, egging on someone else to take the next step etc. Suddenly that becomes the new norm and normal in the group and people let rip even further; and because it's not face to face the usual queues on what's appropriate are not there and it keeps spiraling out.

Of course what they always forget is that no secret group ever remains secret; sooner or later things will spill out one way or the other by a disgruntled member, wrong person invited, a screenshot someone shared as a "haha, look at what they think" etc. And we get another go around of outrage, the group gets shut down and rinse repeat as a new group is setup up instead to discuss with a smaller group. I even see such drama in something simple as raid channels for Pokemon Go where people insist on creating secret sub group channels "because they don't understand what we want" etc. There's the lure of being "special" by being in the secret group combined with the fact as the echo chamber keeps being there people let the mask fall and go more and more extreme over time.

TLDL; It's not a Sinn Fein problem; it's a problem with private echo chambers in general.

Harry Palmr · 19-12-2020 11:13am

It's a Sinn Fein problem because many never thought they'd shaken off their paramilitary connections and mentality so this sort of violent reactionary material in black and white is fuel on that fire.

Dempo1 · 19-12-2020 11:36am

No it doesn't, to assume it has, based on a few silly tweets, Facebook posts etc is absurd. If it were the case that this was the judgement criteria for any political party, FFG would have far more problems and indeed to crazy independent TD posts are beyond bizzare and the Greens? Well I just leave it at that.

Perhaps the Real question is does FFG have a problem with SF"S very existence? Clearly they do along with their popularity and Election successes.

The back and fourth between FG & SF is just becoming tiresome, if they both spent as much time dealing with serious issues, wouldn't we all be in a much better place.

I vote for neither incidentally

tayto lover · 19-12-2020 11:42am

You can decommission guns and explosives.
You cannot decommission psychotic minds.

Sinn Fein will have to disassociate themselves from this kind of thinking if they want to move on and build trust in their party.

Can they do that?

PhilOssophy · 19-12-2020 11:49am

Nody wrote: »

I'm quite certain you could find (if you had the right connections) same groups for most parties with expressing similar extreme views.

You would in your hole find FF or FG with a group where people talk about shooting people in the face, cutting people in the throat, or talking anything like those in the image above. Different calibre of people I suppose.

Serjeant Buzfuz · 19-12-2020 8:33pm

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Surprise, surprise. The unintended TDs strike again.

That Sinn Fein election tide rose all boats - those two though, should have been left at the bottom of the sea.

It seems the official line from Sinn Fein is that everybody’s doing it, let’s talk about social media generally nothing to see here!
Wonder if any of the posters ever got a friendly knock on the door from the party?

Itssoeasy · 19-12-2020 9:19pm

I think it’s a general problem across Irish political parties. There have been some utter head in hands tweets from some parties that would make you wonder did they engage their brains before they hit the button. That’s a problem in general with social media as a whole though as social media gives everyone instant access to give their opinion or take on whatever the hell they want and also gives all utterances equal validity and importance when that’s not the case.

PhilOssophy · 19-12-2020 9:34pm

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I think it’s a general problem across Irish political parties. There have been some utter head in hands tweets from some parties that would make you wonder did they engage their brains before they hit the button. That’s a problem in general with social media as a whole though as social media gives everyone instant access to give their opinion or take on whatever the hell they want and also gives all utterances equal validity and importance when that’s not the case.

There have been head in hands moment from all parties but not about killing or threating harm to people. That is unique to 1 party. Back in a minute there's somebody at the door.....

nuac · 19-12-2020 9:38pm

Vile stuff from SF and not for the first time,
Suepeised that in such a rigidly controlled party that that ths was not dealt withe sooner and more effectively.
Perhaps this sort of "banter" comes from other parties, but not incietment to mirder erc.
Hope tue SF heavies wanrned and expelled their more enthusiastic posters

nuac · 19-12-2020 9:42pm

JHilloss
Hope are still around after that "visit"

myfreespirit · 20-12-2020 3:34pm

Nody wrote: »

Sorry but....

TLDL; It's not a Sinn Fein problem; it's a problem with private echo chambers in general.

With the utmost respect, this is simply not true.

Rather, it is the mask slipping on a thoroughly unpleasant organisation masquerading as a democratic political party in this republic.

Am tempted to go "full Godwin" and say that it is reminiscent of the type of rhetoric typical of some political organisations in the 1920's Weimar republic, but I will refrain.
Listening to Eoin O'Broin on RTE radio yesterday trying but failing to distance SF from the Facebook private group, confirms that they are not serious about rooting out the cancer of murderous hatred endemic in the party.
It is good that this underbelly of nastiness is being exposed, showing just how thin a veneer of democracy exists from top to bottom in SF.

RandomViewer · 20-12-2020 3:37pm

tayto lover wrote: »

You can decommission guns and explosives.
You cannot decommission psychotic minds.

Sinn Fein will have to disassociate themselves from this kind of thinking if they want to move on and build trust in their party.

Can they do that?

FG let Noonan stay ,even made him leader for a while,

givyjoe · 20-12-2020 3:40pm

The absolute irony of a thread asking do Sinn Fein have a social media problem, considering the absolute sh!t show of FG recently on social media.

myfreespirit · 20-12-2020 3:41pm

givyjoe wrote: »

The absolute irony of a thread asking do Sinn Fein have a social media problem, considering the absolute sh!t show of FG recently on social media.

Do tell us about FG supporters on social media suggesting that people should have their throats cut...

marcuslally2 · 20-12-2020 3:43pm

myfreespirit wrote: »

Do tell us about FG supporters on social media suggesting that people should have their throats cut...

Be careful, you might get a knock on the door.

GarIT · 20-12-2020 3:46pm

No, any complaints against SF is just a state news smear campaign by FG and FF.

givyjoe · 20-12-2020 3:48pm

myfreespirit wrote: »

Do tell us about FG supporters on social media suggesting that people should have their throats cut...

There's plenty of scum bags in every section of society, you can pretend there isn't if you wish.. I'm specifically referring to the absolute thicks running FG twitter and young FG accounts. The same can probably be said of the senior members of the party, their PR campaigns are a complete and utter disaster as the current polls show.

Let me guess, you're a FG supporter? To be clear, I have almost equal contempt for political in parties and politicians, but FG really are outshining everyone with their breathtaking hypocrisy, almost on a daily basis at this stage.

givyjoe · 20-12-2020 3:50pm

marcuslally2 wrote: »

Be careful, you might get a knock on the door.

It's gas how these threads attract a circle jerk of back slapping nonsense when double standards are pointed out.

givyjoe · 20-12-2020 3:51pm

marcuslally2 wrote: »

Be careful, you might get a knock on the door.

That's more FG style it seems.

myfreespirit · 20-12-2020 3:54pm

givyjoe wrote: »

There's plenty of scum bags in every section of society....

You made an assertion that you have not backed up.

I pose the question again: "Do tell us about FG supporters on social media suggesting that people should have their throats cut"

GarIT · 20-12-2020 3:55pm

This is great isn't is, barely a few minutes in and Sinn Fein are here saying "look over there someone else did something"

GarIT · 20-12-2020 3:56pm

givyjoe wrote: »

That's more FG style it seems.

Why does something Sinn Fein have admitted to doing, and something there is no claim of FG doing seem like FG style?

GarIT · 20-12-2020 4:08pm

Gardesana Pecher wrote: »

Something must be up at FFG again. Another 'look over there!' propaganda thread.

Yes Sinn Fein the saints have never done anything wrong. Tis all propaganda.

myfreespirit · 20-12-2020 4:13pm

Gardesana Pecher wrote: »

Something must be up at FFG again. Another 'look over there!' propaganda thread.

It's difficult to tell if this post is the result of merely blind stupidity, or a deliberate attempt to ignore and play down the horrific contents of the private Facebook group maintained by people close to Pauline Tully TD and contributed to by other elected SF officials.

Every reasonable person must condemn the vile language and threats that suffuse the SF Facebook private group.

RandomName2 · 21-12-2020 12:48am

givyjoe wrote: »

The absolute irony of a thread asking do Sinn Fein have a social media problem, considering the absolute sh!t show of FG recently on social media.

Jaysus this is worse than Trump supporters saying

'This is just the radical left saying "look over there!" with their propaganda because they can't stomach someone outside the political tent who supports middle America against the interests of the Big Bankers. They hate seeing the swamp drained, so Cliden and their landlord supporters will pursue their slanderous campaigns on social media against the only viable option for change.'

expectationlost · 21-12-2020 8:52pm

Chips Lovell wrote: »

Hot on the heals of Brian Stanley's apology to the Dail this week, the Irish Times this morning has an expose on a secret Facebook group called "Sinn Fein" with around 16,000 supporters as members. The party has had to ask Facebook to have it taken down.

There are a couple of worrying aspects of this for the party.
The three administrators were party activists, one of whom "campaigned heavily" for Cavan TD Pauline Tully in the general election.

Two TDs (Martin Kenny and Violet Anne Wynne) along with multiple councillors were members.

Fianna Fail senator Malcolm Byrne flagged the group to Sinn Fein TD Eoin O'Broin earlier this year, but rather than the group being taken down, it was taken private instead (there is no indication that party HQ was aware those behind it had taken it private).

What's startling is the lack of awareness amongst those running and participating in the group of how bad it was going to look should its contents ever come to light.

why didn't the Irish Times name the administrators?

blanch152 · 26-01-2021 11:41am

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/mairia-cahill-wins-right-for-candidates-to-keep-home-addresses-hidden-40010738.html

Another example of the toxic nature of the Sinn Fein social media prescence.

Because of threats made to her on social media by Sinn Fein members and supporters, Ms. Cahill did not want her address publicised when running for election. As a result, she had to step down as a candidate, in effect bullied out of standing for election.

Thankfully, the law has since been changed, and she has won a case against the Northern Ireland authorities. While the toxic nature of the Sinn Fein attacks on her won't abate, at least her privacy is protected and she is free to run for election.

Eric Cartman · 26-01-2021 12:38pm

I think SF have pulled a master stroke convincing the public thats theres only 1 SF when theres 3.

You have old school SF, Rebel song singing pint swinging, Up the Ra type rural supporters, would be very socially conservative and usually have no time for immigration, lgbt rights, anti abortion etc... main goal is a united ireland and turfing out anyone not irish. They’d love an all white irish catholic ethnostate.

You have new school conservative SF, The types that know nothing really about the IRA, watched michael collins once and consider Leo Varadkar a traitor to Ireland, they convince themselves its something to do with policy but deep down they know its because he’s of non irish heritage and gay. They don’t dislike foreigners or the lgbt community, they just don’t want them to be anything more than the village oddity they can gossip about down the pub, certainly not leader. Their main goal is social housing, followed by free almost everything else paid for by ‘rich protestants and foreign companies’ . Usually unemployed or low income, These are the angry social media bullet posters who think Mary Lou was robbed of Taoiseach.

The greatest stroke the above two groups ever pulled was managing to stay quiet enough in the presence of group 3 to use them as a shield and have them believe everyone is on the same page.

Group 3 is Nouveau SF, believe the mention of IRA links is a conspiracy to keep mary lou out of power, that SF have become a different party about social liberalism and that with the decimation of Labour and the limited size of the social democrats that this is their home. This is the college students and Millennials who believe SF is about workers rights, social housing, free abortions, free healthcare and that Mary Lou is only failing because FF and FG are brainwashing older people into voting against their own interests. These people think group 2 are just a bit too passionate on social media but are willing to overlook the death threats etc.. for the ‘greater good’ of some sort of utopian Ireland where nobody except apple and google ever pays for anything and we can all live in one happy multi cultural socialist paradise. These people usually just call FG members fascists or bigots, while turning a blind eye to bigotry in their own party. Also rebelling against mummy and daddy who voted FF/FG since their 18th birthday adds cool kid street cred. A great christmas dinner row starting party, who lob zingers at MM in the dail and want to give them a free gaf, that’ll do nicely.

Its like having a building with 3 distinct meeting halls, 3 pastors giving 3 different cermons and calling it a broad church because it shares a logo and a front door. As long as the first two groups know who not to speak infront of , they’ll hoodwink group 3 into putting them in power. The most frightening thing is if they were ever to get power , what groups ideology would they actually represent , With Mary Lou at the helm its most likely to be a 70/30 blend of group 1 & 2

quokula · 26-01-2021 12:47pm

I wouldn't say they see it as a social media problem. Without the ability to spread unchallenged propaganda on social media and whip up their supporters by telling different groups different things that they want to hear, the party would be absolutely nowhere electorally. It's the exact same pattern that led to Brexit and Trump, with the exact same unsavoury element of flag waving nationalist bigots present when you look beneath the surface.

Does Sinn Fein have a social media problem?

Comments