Hate Speech Public Consultation

Seathrun66 · 17-12-2020 10:46PM

GarIT wrote: »

I said pushing me towards not had made me become and it's a large number of factors not just this. Couple years ago I would have been thinking the far right are all absolute nuts. But seeing how far the left can go has had me occasionally agreeing with what someone on the right has said. Most of them are still absolute nuts.

There is no right in Ireland anyway that you could actually vote for. Renua are religious nuts, the nationalist party are racist nuts, aontu are anti abortion nuts.

Still I'm not delighted about everywhere being a safe space for snowflakes and me not being eligible for promotion because we have to fill our female quota in management.

I agree with much of that and am not a fan of censorship unless it's to prevent violence. However most of the more reactionary shutting down of people online and cancel culture stuff isn't really the left but censorious dissatisfied people (mainly youthful) taking out their frustrations on others, usually successful others. Being in favour of egalitarianism for all in terms of gender, race, sexuality, etc doesn't necessitate attacking people for slight perceived mis-steps.

Anyway, gotta deal with childcare stuff now, enjoy the continuing debate and all the best. G

Banana Republic 1 · 17-12-2020 11:04PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Theres a thread for that, he lost, get over it, stop letting him have free real estate in your mind.

I know he lost there is a debate about free speech. Complete free speech has divided America because you can actuality say what you like regardless of wether it’s false or causes civil unrest.

17-12-2020 11:12PM

Ireland is nothing like the US. Can we have one thread that doesn't involve Trump, or US society? They're completely fcked up... we're not. Yet.

Strumms · 17-12-2020 11:24PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Ireland is nothing like the US. Can we have one thread that doesn't involve Trump, or US society? They're completely fcked up... we're not. Yet.

Exactly, we have or should have little interest in replicating society over there, here.

Bonniedog · 17-12-2020 11:29PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Unrestricted free speech is a pillar of a free society and should absolutely be enshrined in human rights. Its more of a right than getting married or aborting a child or choosing a gender etc.. without absolute free speech you have a totalitarian society.

This does not trump libel , people should be free to say what they want but if its untrue about a person or company they can still be sued.

Exactly, and if someone provokes others in public to attack gays, Catholic, Jews, muslims or whoever, then they can be charged with incitement to violence.

Just like Lynn Boylan when she lauded an attack by Bohs soccer scum on people getting off a LUAS a few years ago. The irony of people like her pushing for "hate speech" legislation is laughable in the extreme.

jay0109 · 18-12-2020 12:05AM

MontgomeryClift wrote: »

Does anyone else wonder where the demand for this legislation is coming from? I don't think it's really from the clodhoppers in Fine Gael who are helping it along. It's certainly not coming from the electorate.

Is it coming from the IMF? Was it a condition of the bailout? This kind of legislation could have been planned for years. We already have a hint from Lukashenko in Belarus that the IMF made severe Covid restrictions a condition of their proposed bailout. What other conditions come with these bailouts that we don't know about?

It's coming from the same side of the house that wants to overturn the Citizenship referendum without letting the people vote i.e. what remains of the Labour Party, a myriad of Govt and Soros/Feeney funded NGO's and other Liberal/Champagne lefties.

They have no mandate for most of the change they want in Ireland but they are well funded with access to the Govt and Civil Servants.
Ivana Bacik, rejected several times by the Irish electorate in open elections, is getting plenty of publicity on this from a compliant media. She mentioned on Drivetime yesterday there had been 400 submissions on the Hate Speech review....most of them prob from the NGO's and connected parties.

Who really runs this country anymore!

Tell me how · 18-12-2020 12:06AM

Nermal wrote: »

Works really well, just click it more than once. Small price to pay for freedom really, isn't it?

I've a fair idea which end of the experience of online bullying people with this attitude are located.

ExMachina1000 · 18-12-2020 12:10AM

How do people go about reporting hate speech?

Give the Gardai a phone call like every other crime is i presume?

If its online do I need to print it out and take the "evidence " to the station maybe?

John Doe1 · 18-12-2020 12:16AM

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

Was this an actual thing or are you exaggerating?

Yeah censorship of discussion on birth control/abortion was a thing. Any true Liberal has no business agreeing with this current censorship

"Abortion and birth control
Until the early 1990s, discussing abortion in any way, including the provision of impartial information, was disallowed, and any publication providing information on the medical treatment would be confiscated. In the 1980s, the Irish Family Planning Association and the Trinity College Dublin and University College Dublin students' unions were successfully sued by the Society for the Protection of Unborn Children for publishing telephone numbers for abortion clinics in the United Kingdom. On one occasion British newspaper The Guardian was withdrawn by its Irish distributors for a day to preempt a threatened ban due to the inclusion of an advertisement for a UK abortion clinic in that day's issue (despite the advert having appeared on a number of prior occasions without incident).

In May 1992, the Democratic Left T.D. Proinsias De Rossa subverted this ban by reading the offending telephone numbers into the Dáil record; because of his absolute privilege as a member of the Oireachtas, he avoided a lawsuit.[31]

In the wake of the X Case, the fourteenth amendment of the Constitution of Irelandapproved in November 1992 removed the constitutional prohibition. Regulation of access to information to abortion was put on a statutory basis by the Regulation of Information (Services Outside the State For Termination of Pregnancies) Act 1995.[32] This was repealed by the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act 2018.[33]"

Banana Republic 1 · 18-12-2020 12:19AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ireland is nothing like the US. Can we have one thread that doesn't involve Trump, or US society? They're completely fcked up... we're not. Yet.

I not the first to bring it and please restrain your outrage for for the sake of humanity.

18-12-2020 12:21AM

jay0109 wrote: »

Who really runs this country anymore!

Anymore? I'd be hard pressed to imagine when the people ever ran the country... make a party lose an election? Oh deary me, back in again in 4 years time. Such a terrible inconvenience.

18-12-2020 12:23AM

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

I not the first to bring it and please restrain your outrage for for the sake of humanity.

Outrage? :rolleyes: Stop trying to 'trigger' others. You're not very good at it. You do realise that we're not Americans and don't need to behave like high school drama queens?

Banana Republic 1 · 18-12-2020 12:27AM

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

How do people go about reporting hate speech?

Give the Gardai a phone call like every other crime is i presume?

Who will in turn do nothing there are plenty of laws in Ireland they just aren’t enforced.

BTW I’m not against this law I’m making a wider point.

Banana Republic 1 · 18-12-2020 12:33AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Outrage? :rolleyes: Stop trying to 'trigger' others. You're not very good at it. You do realise that we're not Americans and don't need to behave like high school drama queens?

High school drama queens is an American term, this isn’t America as you have said

Constructing that reply in the manner you have is no more then baiting.

ExMachina1000 · 18-12-2020 12:35AM

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Who will in turn do nothing there are plenty of laws in Ireland they just aren’t enforced.

BTW I’m not against this law I’m making a wider point.

There are a couple of fields beside the circle k shop on the motorway near cashel in Tipperary. In these fields there are many horses tied on short ropes who are out in all weathers. Some of the horses are skin and bone. There are also dogs tied up inside a council owned fenced off adjacent area. These dogs are in poor condition too.
Beside these fields there are caravans with piles of rubbish scattered on the grass. There is also a house in poor condition with rubbish thrown around the area. In general it is a disgrace.

Members of the travelling community live here and are responsible for littering and what looks like clear animal mistreatment.
They should be evicted from the land, fined and have the animals taken from them.

Is this a hate speech ?

18-12-2020 12:41AM

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

High school drama queens is an American term, this isn’t America as you have said

Constructing that reply in the manner you have is no more then baiting.

Says the guy who accused me of being outraged.. :pac::pac::pac:

Hilarious. I'll leave it at that.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 18-12-2020 12:46AM

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

There are a couple of fields beside the circle k shop on the motorway near cashel in Tipperary. In these fields there are many horses tied on short ropes who are out in all weathers. Some of the horses are skin and bone. There are also dogs tied up inside a council owned fenced off adjacent area. These dogs are in poor condition too.
Beside these fields there are caravans with piles of rubbish scattered on the grass. There is also a house in poor condition with rubbish thrown around the area. In general it is a disgrace.

Members of the travelling community live here and are responsible for littering and what looks like clear animal mistreatment.
They should be evicted from the land, fined and have the animals taken from them.

Is this a hate speech ?

It will be yes.

Strumms · 18-12-2020 02:07AM

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

There are a couple of fields beside the circle k shop on the motorway near cashel in Tipperary. In these fields there are many horses tied on short ropes who are out in all weathers. Some of the horses are skin and bone. There are also dogs tied up inside a council owned fenced off adjacent area. These dogs are in poor condition too.
Beside these fields there are caravans with piles of rubbish scattered on the grass. There is also a house in poor condition with rubbish thrown around the area. In general it is a disgrace.

Members of the travelling community live here and are responsible for littering and what looks like clear animal mistreatment.
They should be evicted from the land, fined and have the animals taken from them.

Is this a hate speech ?

No,

But the wokies want it to be.

North Korea and Iran have laws against free speech, against one freely expressing oneself...thoughts, opinions, criticism etc.

That is the direction that this shower of fückwits want us to go... where critical observations and counter arguments become ‘hate’....right, no, in a democracy we have the right to an opinion, to express it without fear of sanction or bullying or threats or actions of any kind.

Tell me how · 18-12-2020 02:36AM

Strumms wrote: »

No,

But the wokies want it to be.

North Korea and Iran have laws against free speech, against one freely expressing oneself...thoughts, opinions, criticism etc.

That is the direction that this shower of fückwits want us to go... where critical observations and counter arguments become ‘hate’....right, no, in a democracy we have the right to an opinion, to express it without fear of sanction or bullying or threats or actions of any kind.

This is from the recently posted Times article;

“Good faith” contributions to public debates, academia and the arts would be exempt.

People seem to have struggle differentiating between such events and just spewing bile at or about someone.

suicide_circus · 18-12-2020 06:52AM

I want to believe that and hope that's how it plays out.

Zebra3 · 18-12-2020 08:19AM

According to the IT this morning, "holocaust denial" will be included under hate speech.

Which holocaust will that be? All of them, or just the nazi holocaust?

I guess nakba denial will be included under hate speech too? Right? :rolleyes:

And zionism? Or will we continue to allow hate speech that calls for ethnic cleansing of some native people?

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 18-12-2020 09:09AM

Zebra3 wrote: »

According to the IT this morning, "holocaust denial" will be included under hate speech.

Which holocaust will that be? All of them, or just the nazi holocaust?

I guess nakba denial will be included under hate speech too? Right? :rolleyes:

And zionism? Or will we continue to allow hate speech that calls for ethnic cleansing of some native people?

What exactly constitutes "denial" though. What if let's say someone disputed the numbers...is that hate speech...and who decides?

WrenBoy · 18-12-2020 09:19AM

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

There are a couple of fields beside the circle k shop on the motorway near cashel in Tipperary. In these fields there are many horses tied on short ropes who are out in all weathers. Some of the horses are skin and bone. There are also dogs tied up inside a council owned fenced off adjacent area. These dogs are in poor condition too.
Beside these fields there are caravans with piles of rubbish scattered on the grass. There is also a house in poor condition with rubbish thrown around the area. In general it is a disgrace.

Members of the travelling community live here and are responsible for littering and what looks like clear animal mistreatment.
They should be evicted from the land, fined and have the animals taken from them.

Is this a hate speech ?

You got a licence for that opinion !??

Banana Republic 1 · 18-12-2020 09:22AM

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

There are a couple of fields beside the circle k shop on the motorway near cashel in Tipperary. In these fields there are many horses tied on short ropes who are out in all weathers. Some of the horses are skin and bone. There are also dogs tied up inside a council owned fenced off adjacent area. These dogs are in poor condition too.
Beside these fields there are caravans with piles of rubbish scattered on the grass. There is also a house in poor condition with rubbish thrown around the area. In general it is a disgrace.

Members of the travelling community live here and are responsible for littering and what looks like clear animal mistreatment.
They should be evicted from the land, fined and have the animals taken from them.

Is this a hate speech ?

Are you asking me ?

Annasopra · 18-12-2020 09:46AM

RandRuns wrote: »

You're wrong.

The above allows any statement, whether it is "hate speech" or not, and whomever it is directed against, to be deemed illegal.

I know you really, really, want this to be a precision weapon against those you perceive as your enemies, but it is not.

My reading of that part of the report would be in reference to hate crime and not hate speech. In that context I think your interpretation that any statement could be hate speech is wrong.

Annasopra · 18-12-2020 09:54AM

RandRuns wrote: »

A truly ridiculous post.

I am to take the chance that a judge will take a particular "interpetation" of a law when I am in court? In Ireland, where judges are political appointees? Surely you cannot be serious?

The law, as drafted in the report ALLOWS for the criminalisation of random statements, that is not an interpetation, it is how it is written..

No it doesnt. You are interpeting a sentence from a report. This is not a draft law. Others have very different interpretations to you. It may be your opinion/understanding of the report. That does not mske it fact.

Chips Lovell · 18-12-2020 10:44AM

SexBobomb wrote: »

At least this shows the Irish Governments position on cases like Charlie Hebdo. It appears they are not on the side of the magazine.

How did you form that impression from the report? It specifically states that "jokes, insults and cartoons" shouldn't be considered a crime.

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Is this a hate speech ?

Why would you think it is?

whisky_galore · 18-12-2020 10:52AM

MontgomeryClift wrote: »

Does anyone else wonder where the demand for this legislation is coming from? I don't think it's really from the clodhoppers in Fine Gael who are helping it along. It's certainly not coming from the electorate.

Is it coming from the IMF? Was it a condition of the bailout? This kind of legislation could have been planned for years. We already have a hint from Lukashenko in Belarus that the IMF made severe Covid restrictions a condition of their proposed bailout. What other conditions come with these bailouts that we don't know about?

Good question. Not sure if it's anything to do with the bailout though.
Like you say, the electorate never looked for this.

KiKi III · 18-12-2020 11:00AM

A lot of the questions on this post would be answered by reading an article on it:

“The test for criminal hate speech will be the perpetrator’s intentions, not how the speech was perceived by the victim.

The Bill, which is due to be drafted over the coming months, will list trans people and people with disabilities, alongside already protected groups such as other members of the LGBT community people, refugees and immigrants, Travellers and ethnic and religious groups.

Asked if it will be an offence to misgender a trans person or use their former name, Mr McEntee said: “We’re not trying to catch people out, this is not something you can stumble into by accident. This is not about somebody causing offence to somebody else or misspeaking.

“What is very clear is we’re talking about a intention or recklessness to incite hatred against one individual or a group of people.”

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/hate-speech-law-not-about-catching-people-out-says-minister-1.4439740?mode=amp

KiKi III · 18-12-2020 11:05AM

GarIT wrote: »

I said pushing me towards not had made me become and it's a large number of factors not just this. Couple years ago I would have been thinking the far right are all absolute nuts. But seeing how far the left can go has had me occasionally agreeing with what someone on the right has said. Most of them are still absolute nuts.

There is no right in Ireland anyway that you could actually vote for. Renua are religious nuts, the nationalist party are racist nuts, aontu are anti abortion nuts.

Still I'm not delighted about everywhere being a safe space for snowflakes and me not being eligible for promotion because we have to fill our female quota in management.

If you’re not eligible for promotion at the moment because of your gender that’s illegal and you can take a case.

Of course, it’s always possible you’re not getting promoted because of your performance, your attitude, because you’re seen as a difficult person to work with or because you spend an enormous amount of the day on boards...

Hate Speech Public Consultation

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